…and, if so, says who? Well, not Alice apparently, but Neil Warnock, who always likes to get his retaliation in before any fight starts, let alone one for a talented player he thinks might be up for grabs. No, what we are seeing here is a wily old manager sensing a new Chelsea broom about to sweep clean through an established youth set-up and he wants to be there to pick up a very good crumb on its way out the door. Cue the Owls and Jimmy Smith, followed swiftly by Harry and a similar move for Ben Sahar, and the picture becomes clearer.

In short, Phil Scolari is going to have his work cut out in the next few weeks and these youngsters are bound to slip under a Brazilian radar busily tuning itself in to first team matters and very little else. Decisions will be made here, there and everywhere and considerations, such as do we hold on to these guys for a cameo appearance in the Carling Cup [like last season] or farm them out now, will come way down any agenda Big Phil sets himself. The role of Frank Arnesen will be crucial in these early briefings and I for one hope he has the following names on his keep list, whether it be for Carling Cup blooding or seven substitute subbing….

1. Franco di Santo - whatever thoughts we might have on the long term future of Sahar, this kid is already at a higher level playing in a similar role, in my opinion, and should be part of the first team squad irrespective of any big names coming in. If he is not, then those who believe Scolari’s arrival signals a complete sea change in youth development policy at the club will have got it right and it will be very wrong.

2. Michael Mancienne - another loan period for him would be one too many as far as I am concerned and it would highlight the rockiness of the road that Smith, Sahar and Sinclair are going down for a second and [for Sinclair, should it happen] third time. Mancienne needs faith shown in him now or not at all and the increased number of substitutes allowed in the Premiership provides an ideal opportunity for us to not only show that faith, but also put a young England international on our bench.

3. Scott Sinclair - everything said about Mancienne above applies to Sinclair except more so because, with the probable departure of both Malouda and SWP, a place for him will exist and if he is not the embodiment of Arnesen’s work with our young players since his arrival then I do not know who is. Sorry Neil, but for Scott to fail to get a place in our first team squad, at the precise moment when one opens up for him, would be an indictment of our youth development process. Put bluntly, he should be sitting alongside his England Under-19 colleague on our bench and, if Malouda and SWP go, looking to replace someone like Ricardo Quaresma on the pitch in front of him.

4. Michael Woods - no surprise to hear that Steve Sidwell wants a word in the Scolari shell-like before committing to Villa, or anybody else for that matter. How annoyed would he be should our new manager be bowled over by another ginger-headed midfielder the moment he exits stage left to the Midlands? Very, I would guess, but it is a possibility bearing in mind the Arnesen factor [once again] and the great store in which the player is held. No lesser individual than Lamps himself rates him highly and, should he be Milan-bound and replaced by someone of similar age and differing style, Woods moves slightly further up the pecking order by my reckoning. How nice it would be [yes, you must be getting the message by now] on a cold winters night in Stoke, to have another young England international coming on as substitute for the first team.

5. Gael Kakuta, Patrick van Aanholt, Miroslav Stoch and Jeffery Bruma - in the coming weeks this Gang of Four may not get anywhere near Big Phil Scolari, let alone the first team bench, but neither must they get anywhere near the loan arrangers, as they are the nucleus of the first team, the one after the new Scolari creation, and the odds are that their only chance of recognition each season will be through familiarity on the training field, not by mention in dispatches.

So there you have it in a nutshell. Whilst the preoccupation in the next few weeks will be major signings, spare a thought for those who fear that their first meeting with the new boss might be their last. Wholesale clearout at first team level may well be a distinct possibility and, when money is no object, the assumption that those going will all be replaced by big names is inevitable. Neil and Harry certainly think so, but, as the old song goes, it ain’t necessarily so. A good mix of youth and world class experience would be very acceptable, Phil, and I don’t think I’m the only one who feels that way about our future.

I am still holding out hope that these lads will be given a shot. With the 7 sub rule, it only makes sense that some of these fringe players start making their impressions felt on the first team. I think the likes of Stoch, Kakuta, etc are all still a bit young to be demanding a place on the bench. However, as you said, Sinclair, Sahar, Woods, Mancienne have all been tried and tested and surely should warrant a place in the starting 7 substitutes.

If we loan them out again, I think they should rightly start looking for another club to ply their trade. At least if we use them on the bench and give them some time away to Stoke, or Hull, or whomever; we can never say that they were never given a chance.

I'd really love to see some of our youth squad start breaking into the first team. I doubt all of the aforementioned plaer will, but give a couple of them a shot, and see i they can run with it. Sinclair to replace SWP, to me, seems the most likely to happen. But I think Mancienne could be in with a good shout, and I feel Terry could easily take him under his wing. A former Chelsea youth team member, now in the first team, and playing as England Captain; Mancienne would be best to take as much advice from Terry as he can absorb

Scott

I really hope that we start using some youth players like you two above me have stated, but my guy tells me that the only way we will see these youngsters starting is if we have an injury crisis.

Hopefully this 7 sub rule will have us have at least one young guy on the above list in the mix...put them on when we are up a couple goals. See what they can do...C'mon Big Phil, give it a shot!

Great post, Dorset. Two points:

(1) I'd be really surprised if we did anything that would "undo" our work at the youth level. So, a few to further develop under the watchful eyes of talented coaches like Harry would not be too disappointing. I understand the "better to be under the watchful eyes of our own management" argument, but at some point they need to be tried for real and let's face it, how many games could we risk them not performing on the big stage?

(2) I'd be very happy to have Di Santo and Sinclair on our bench for most matches. I think those two, more than any other of our youth players, are "ready" to be involved. I mean this from both a "stage of development" and "quality" perspective.

Cheers,

Butch

Great post, Dorset. Two points:

(1) I'd be really surprised if we did anything that would "undo" our work at the youth level. So, a few to further develop under the watchful eyes of talented coaches like Harry would not be too disappointing. I understand the "better to be under the watchful eyes of our own management" argument, but at some point they need to be tried for real and let's face it, how many games could we risk them not performing on the big stage?

(2) I'd be very happy to have Di Santo and Sinclair on our bench for most matches. I think those two, more than any other of our youth players, are "ready" to be involved. I mean this from both a "stage of development" and "quality" perspective.

Cheers,

Butch

I think players like Sinclair and Di Santo are better off getting regular game time at Premiership or bar that Championship level clubs than warming a bench at Chelsea, only occasionally getting a run.

We all want to see youth players make the step up into the Chelsea first team, but unless they have the quality and ability to come in and do a job in a blue shirt, we are only needlessly sacrificing results for no positive future gain.

Well, my argument is that those two are ready, to come on relatively regularly for us.

Cheers,

Butch

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see Di Santo, Sahar or Sinclair get some decent game time for us next season, and with the 7 sub rule I think we have every right to be very disappointed if we don't use this chance to give the youth a go.

I have a feeling Scott may not quite make it at CFC but he and the others certainly deserve a chance to show whether they can make the leap or not. And by 'chance', I don't mean 5 mins at the end of a couple of Carling Cup game...

I think players like Sinclair and Di Santo are better off getting regular game time at Premiership or bar that Championship level clubs than warming a bench at Chelsea, only occasionally getting a run.

We all want to see youth players make the step up into the Chelsea first team, but unless they have the quality and ability to come in and do a job in a blue shirt, we are only needlessly sacrificing results for no positive future gain.

Climbing on my high horse to survey the loan system, Qaz, I would struggle to find a good word to say about it, whether it be from a Chelsea perspective or in general terms. Indeed, the idea that loaning players out benefits both the individuals concerned and the clubs involved is not really borne out by subsequent good news stories on either side. Who was the last loaned out youngster to return to his club and go on to make the grade with them rather than anybody else?

Can’t think of a good example offhand, whereas an abuse of the system immediately springs to mind in Tim Howard and his loan move to Everton a couple of years ago. Correct me if I’m wrong, but did he not duck out of the Everton/ManU game in murky circumstances only for his replacement to make a couple of glaring errors when United were two goals down? No doubt Liam will spring to a non-conspiratorial defence of the ’just lucky I guess’ kind, but my point here is that the system is open to abuse whether you believe it happens or not.

By the same token, at the lower level, don’t give me the ’good for the Championship/League side’ argument either, because these clubs will never develop their own talent this way and neither will they benefit that much from the player concerned being hauled back after, at best, inflating the loanee club’s ambition bubble, only for it then to be burst in his absence. Okay, they develop their own players only to have them pinched by the rich clubs anyway, but it is at a price and at least they can have the last laugh when they turn out to be more lupine-like than gold standard.

Strikes me that the loan arrangement is no more than a quick fix [excuse the terminology] for the receiver that in turn serves a useful short term purpose for the supposed benefactor club without, as far as I can see, assisting the development of any player with really outstanding potential. In effect, the guys in this rarefied category are better off exactly where they are - in the rarefied atmosphere that surrounds clubs like Chelsea. Of course, give me the names of a few who dispel this argument and I’ll be forced to back down - your time starts now….

If you look back I think you'll find quite a lot of players went out on loan for a spell before breaking through to the first team. No doubt others will furnish further examples but the two which immediately spring to mind for me are Frank Lampard (Swansea) and David Beckham (Preston).

If you look back I think you'll find quite a lot of players went out on loan for a spell before breaking through to the first team. No doubt others will furnish further examples but the two which immediately spring to mind for me are Frank Lampard (Swansea) and David Beckham (Preston).

John Terry had a loan spell with Forest but he's the only one who's come back and made a go of it at the bridge.

There haven't been many youngsters we've loaned out that have gone on to make it in the top division, Forsell and C Cole being the recent exceptions

John Terry had a loan spell with Forest but he's the only one who's come back and made a go of it at the bridge.

There haven't been many youngsters we've loaned out that have gone on to make it in the top division, Forsell and C Cole being the recent exceptions

Not sure if Cole ever really made it Bluenut!

Id be happy to see Sinclair go out on loan again for the season but ideally to a Premier League Club. If that cant be the case Palace would the next best bet. I still think he has a lot to learn and i will be very interested to see how he gets on this year. He was superb at Selhurst Park for the last 10 games of Palaces season but when it really mattered in the play offs he was a huge let down.

Not a fan of Warnock but i get the impression he gets the best out of his players so it could be a good thing he stays there for another 12 months.

didn't terry go to n forrest

didn't terry go to n forrest

oops sorry didn't see bjd's post

apologies

but it brings back the post i wrote a couple of weeks ago where most said it would never happen

Not sure if Cole ever really made it Bluenut!

Id be happy to see Sinclair go out on loan again for the season but ideally to a Premier League Club. If that cant be the case Palace would the next best bet. I still think he has a lot to learn and i will be very interested to see how he gets on this year. He was superb at Selhurst Park for the last 10 games of Palaces season but when it really mattered in the play offs he was a huge let down.

Not a fan of Warnock but i get the impression he gets the best out of his players so it could be a good thing he stays there for another 12 months.

He may not have made it in the grandest sense of the word but he is still employed by a premiership club unlike the likes of Leon Knight and Sam Parkin who make their way from lower league club to lower league club with each season

Ashley Cole spent time out on loan before he made his break through at Arsenal.

And theres that Danish striker at Arsenal, Nicklas Bendtner.

With the seven subs rule in effect next season, it is the perfect time to keep at least 2 or 3 of our youngsters in and around the first team squad rather than sending them out for ANOTHER loan.

The two players i'm thinking of mainly are Sinclair and Maccienne, who have both been through 2 or 3 loan spells, have performed well and are ready now to make the next step up. I think it is time for both of these players to be thrown in at the deep end and see how they go. Especially as there is a ready-made spot for them on the bench.

I guess it will come down to Scolari's views on promoting youth talent, which we don't really know anything about, as he has come from years of international management where this is not an issue. Hopefully it is an improvement from the Mourinho era, where it was definately not a priority.