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Have We Lost Our Supremecy?


TomP

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With all the rampant Kenyon blaming that is going on at the moment, it is worth stepping back and looking at the bigger picture.

For the first time since Abramovic took over, we have been directly outbid for a player in the transfer market.

Sure, 32 million for Robinho is lot of money for a player of his level, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who are happy with the fact that kind of money on a less than world class player again.

But, at the end of the day, both us and City wanted the player, we were both prepared to spend seriously big money, but City with their new owners were prepared to spend more to win the bidding war and get their man.

It worries me that this might well be the sign of things to come. For the last 5 years, we have been the undeniable top dogs of the world transfer market. Whenever a player in the top price bracket came up for transfer, we have always had first bite at them. When we decided we wanted the likes of Drogba, Essien, Duff, Shevchenko, Wright-Phillips etc., we got them, without having to worry about competition from other clubs. If we really wanted a player, there was noone else who could match us.

By the way the Robinho situation played out, that might well be a thing of the past.

In a way, I hope that we lost out on Robinho entirely because of Kenyon fell out with Calderon over the shirts-on-website affair - that would worry me a lot less than losing our supremecy in the transfer market.

I hope we have not gotten ourselves too caught up in "not paying over the odds" that we have dragged ourselves back onto a level playing field in the transfer market.

What happens if Kaka comes up for sale in January but Milan put a 100 million price tag on him? Should we "only pay what he is worth" and watch him be snapped up by the likes of City who are prepared to spend MORE than he is "worth", or should we splash the cash and re-establish our top dog status?

Thoughts, anyone?

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I was really surprised Robinho would actually go to a team like city after being with madrid.

We are still the top dogs in the transfer market, when it comes to the big four, and hopefully when really world class players like Kaka are up for sale, they wont want to go to a manchester city to play no matter how much they are willing to pay, because they aren't as competitive on all fronts as we are. The fact that Robinho went to city means he must not care that much about not playing in the champions league or battling for the top of the league.

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Tom,

Legitimate points, but at a certain point it literally has to stop somewhere. That is why we never went over 30 million for Sheva (who was, bar none, the top striker in the world when we got him) and all these absurd sums over Kaka and Robinho are universally laughed at. Keeping that in mind, its not like our power in the transfer market is absolutely without parallel. We just spent as much as the other major clubs, but more often, and on far less worthy players.

From my perspective at least: City can have all these players if they are really willing to pay ungodly sums for them. They cant buy every player on the market, and what is clear to me is that we have gained a measure of fiscal sense over the last two seasons: make signings when needed, but stop blocking youngsters, stop buying just to buy and stop getting robbed at ever single terms. To be honest, I would much rather play that game and be a club who is a consistent challenger for major honors than create a huge, all conquering squad at all financial costs. The whole thing is a double edged sword. We may no longer have the fattest wallet on the block. But (contingent on getting rid of Kenyon) we are clearly no longer the biggest sucker on the block, either. We've cleared out the failures, and Deco is looking like a bargain buy at the moment.

I realize how much these words must sound like the frustrated ones of a gooner or manc fan but a few short years ago, but there is something to be said for playing by the same unspoken rules the others are forced to abide by. Because sooner or later, no matter how rich City's owners, they will realize the same thing eventually. And I would much rather we have our owner, who is a wealthy, known quality, and who honestly loves football and this team (that much is clear after five years) than a bunch of question marks.

(I realize the tone of this response is that I might be 'crying poor' but I acknowledge that we are far from a welfare case ourselves, even if we are looking at transfers with a bit of diplomacy and sense now)

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Superstars like Kaka or Messi are not likely to end up at Man City anytime soon. If it was just a question of money, we'd have had both by now, and unlike City we have won a few things in England in the recent time and have been the most consistent team in Europe albeit without winning the actual trophy.

It remains to be seen what'll happen with this new takeover. Even if they spend crazy money in January I don't see City finishing in the top four. I wonder how much patience these boys from Abu Dhabi have because even in the best case scenario they'll have to wait for a few years before seriously going after the league title .

Sure, they can outbid anybody but without CL they'll have a problem attracting the best talent. They're kind of like Chelsea five years ago, only we have had by then a reasonable success in Europe, number of big name players associated with the club and very importantly, beat Scousers to the CL qualification right before Roman's takeover which put us in a favorable position.

City will have to start from further back than we did and will face much stiffer competition than there ever was.

Plus, Sparky will face the kind of challenges he never had as a manager and the kind of owners that freely splash big dough around usually have trouble avoiding the desire to play the part of the manager themselves.

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All romans cash has enabled us to do is compete with the big teams who have been throwing the sort of money about that RA has recently for years.

How many times over the last 10-15yrs have Man U broken the British transfer record???

Now Man C have joined the party, its not us Chelsea fans that have to worry. I must admit although i was gutted at missing out on a player yesterday that i thought our squad needed, and there was some banter from fans about us being seen-off etc the majority of Arsenal and Liverpool fans were quiet. Even Spurs fans who annually harbour there own Champions league ambitions were more than a little worried.

If Man C are going to gate-crash the top four its more likely to be at the expense of 1 of the 3 i just mentioned and that makes me happy not sad.

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Legitimate points, but at a certain point it literally has to stop somewhere. That is why we never went over 30 million for Sheva (who was, bar none, the top striker in the world when we got him) and all these absurd sums over Kaka and Robinho are universally laughed at. Keeping that in mind, its not like our power in the transfer market is absolutely without parallel. We just spent as much as the other major clubs, but more often, and on far less worthy players.

From my perspective at least: City can have all these players if they are really willing to pay ungodly sums for them. They cant buy every player on the market, and what is clear to me is that we have gained a measure of fiscal sense over the last two seasons: make signings when needed, but stop blocking youngsters, stop buying just to buy and stop getting robbed at ever single terms. To be honest, I would much rather play that game and be a club who is a consistent challenger for major honors than create a huge, all conquering squad at all financial costs. The whole thing is a double edged sword. We may no longer have the fattest wallet on the block. But (contingent on getting rid of Kenyon) we are clearly no longer the biggest sucker on the block, either. We've cleared out the failures, and Deco is looking like a bargain buy at the moment.

I realize how much these words must sound like the frustrated ones of a gooner or manc fan but a few short years ago, but there is something to be said for playing by the same unspoken rules the others are forced to abide by. Because sooner or later, no matter how rich City's owners, they will realize the same thing eventually. And I would much rather we have our owner, who is a wealthy, known quality, and who honestly loves football and this team (that much is clear after five years) than a bunch of question marks.

(I realize the tone of this response is that I might be 'crying poor' but I acknowledge that we are far from a welfare case ourselves, even if we are looking at transfers with a bit of diplomacy and sense now)

Great post and says it all for me. If they want to chuck around silly money, then fair play, as we did. But they will soon find not everyone is lured solely by pound signs, and that it takes more than money to build a title winning team, especially when the current big boys aren't short of a few quid either and have the pedigree to back it up.

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Superstars like Kaka or Messi are not likely to end up at Man City anytime soon. If it was just a question of money, we'd have had both by now, and unlike City we have won a few things in England in the recent time and have been the most consistent team in Europe albeit without winning the actual trophy.

It remains to be seen what'll happen with this new takeover. Even if they spend crazy money in January I don't see City finishing in the top four. I wonder how much patience these boys from Abu Dhabi have because even in the best case scenario they'll have to wait for a few years before seriously going after the league title .

Sure, they can outbid anybody but without CL they'll have a problem attracting the best talent. They're kind of like Chelsea five years ago, only we have had by then a reasonable success in Europe, number of big name players associated with the club and very importantly, beat Scousers to the CL qualification right before Roman's takeover which put us in a favorable position.

City will have to start from further back than we did and will face much stiffer competition than there ever was.

Plus, Sparky will face the kind of challenges he never had as a manager and the kind of owners that freely splash big dough around usually have trouble avoiding the desire to play the part of the manager themselves.

Great post, Abramovich, and one that your namesake should cut and paste onto the cabin door of his yacht. The top players are not all as desperate to change their current lifestyles as Robinho, nor do they have the same problems with their clubs as he had with Real Madrid, or the same apparent hang-ups outside of football. Several factors came together to give City the opportunity to make a trophy signing at our expense, as well as at great expense for the new owners and, if Chelsea’s experience is anything to go by, there are many dangers ahead for them on their own particular rollercoaster ride, though I doubt that they’d care to listen to a few amidst all the initial euphoria.

Be that as it may, those City fans who have come on here to gloat would do well to take note of the general goodwill shown towards them at their time of good fortune, something that [we are asked to believe] some of them showed towards us for breaking the United/Arse duopoly. What we have that City [as a club now also bestowed of vast fortune] do not is the benefit of hindsight, plus a recent record of trophy success that they MUST match over the next four years. Miss out on that quick fix of success and the doubts will set in and you called it right when questioning the patience of the boys from Abu Dhabi, even though the fans themselves have a history of endurance to match our own. Hate to harp back on it, but more than anything else, we have Jose to thank for that instant influx of silverware. The pressure is on Mark, make no mistake!

Hindsight enables us to pinpoint other pitfalls too, such as the need for an English core and a youth policy that doesn’t merely pay lip service to the concept. The former has seen Roman box clever with JT and Lamps being the pillars of our society and now is the time for us to see the latter being given its head in the form of promotions for Di Santo, Stoch, Sinclair, Kakuta and Mancienne. If there is one player who could benefit most from a Robinho rejection it is Miroslav Stoch because there are very few talented take-on wide men in the marketplace once the Brazilian is out of the frame, so why not take a cost free look at him between now and the January window?

Incidentally, whilst it isn’t for us to guide the Abu Dhabi boat into sensible waters, Sturridge and Weiss are instances of what not to discard and, for an example of how not to behave, City only have to look down the road to see what Fergie thinks of his best young talent - the shipping out Frazier Campbell to Spurs as part of the hush-hush money payoff on the Berbatov transfer tells us everything we need to know about his priorities and his Godfather complex. At least we can agree with City over one thing - the sooner he departs the scene the better.

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f**k Abu Dhabi United, we'll smash them on Sunday and we'll continue to smash them in the future.

Their owner seems completely clueless, the fact he wants to sign Ronaldo, Fabregas and Torres (and is very confident of doing so) in January just about sums them up.

They'll never be contenders; just keep going through a neverending cycle of managers and players in the hope they eventually win the league, which they never will because their owner doesn't seem the sort at all who'd give the players a chance to gel.

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f**k Abu Dhabi United, we'll smash them on Sunday and we'll continue to smash them in the future.

Their owner seems completely clueless, the fact he wants to sign Ronaldo, Fabregas and Torres (and is very confident of doing so) in January just about sums them up.

They'll never be contenders; just keep going through a neverending cycle of managers and players in the hope they eventually win the league, which they never will because their owner doesn't seem the sort at all who'd give the players a chance to gel.

Same could be said about us and our infatuation with Kaka / Ronaldinho (don't even mention the Sheva saga) 4 managers in 5 years for Roman aswell. The difference was Jose, who we still managed to sack! Your making assumptions on City - we've actually done almost everything you've mentioned!!!

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Rich or not... they still have Ben Haim as a regular starter in defence.

Recently, the asking prices of various internationals from their clubs have gone through the roof.

Five or so years ago, £17m for Berbatov would have been perfectly reasonable, but with all these "£100m for Kaka/Ronaldinho, etc..." rumours, everything has skyrocketed beyond all reason.

To be honest, I really hope that we don't get lured into the Man City-style bidding pathetic amounts for unworthy players (although we have done in the past, for example paying 20m+ for Drogba, Essien, SWP, Shevvers, etc...), as I don't want player price inflation to continue as it has done. Also, I would like us to build on what we have.

Miroslav Stoch and Di Santo are two very promising prospects...

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What happens if Kaka comes up for sale in January but Milan put a 100 million price tag on him? Should we "only pay what he is worth" and watch him be snapped up by the likes of City who are prepared to spend MORE than he is "worth", or should we splash the cash and re-establish our top dog status?

Thoughts, anyone?

i seriously think that an agreement has been made for us to get first refusals on kaka but even if we aint look what happened with ronaldinho this summer....it doesnt always work out that the team with the most money on offer is the team who gets the player. the s*n today had the city dream team which consisted of kaka messi rona**o berbatov and torres. im willing to stick my neck out and say that none of those will pull on a city shirt.

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Rich or not... they still have Ben Haim as a regular starter in defence.

Recently, the asking prices of various internationals from their clubs have gone through the roof.

Five or so years ago, £17m for Berbatov would have been perfectly reasonable, but with all these "£100m for Kaka/Ronaldinho, etc..." rumours, everything has skyrocketed beyond all reason.

To be honest, I really hope that we don't get lured into the Man City-style bidding pathetic amounts for unworthy players (although we have done in the past, for example paying 20m+ for Drogba, Essien, SWP, Shevvers, etc...), as I don't want player price inflation to continue as it has done. Also, I would like us to build on what we have.

Miroslav Stoch and Di Santo are two very promising prospects...

SORRY did you just say that drog and ess are not worth the money and that they are unworthy players? thats crazy!look at the goals didi gets us, there is not many if any better strikers in the world at what didi does and as for ess he puts his all into every match even at the weekend i dont think he was fully fit but he still went all out for us.

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Great post and says it all for me. If they want to chuck around silly money, then fair play, as we did. But they will soon find not everyone is lured solely by pound signs, and that it takes more than money to build a title winning team, especially when the current big boys aren't short of a few quid either and have the pedigree to back it up.

Exactly, Tim. I know its only one case, but look at the Berbatov saga: Man City stump more money out to Spurs, who im sure didnt want to sell to Ferguson. But Berbatov reportedly didnt even entertain the notion of moving there.

Ultimately, this whole thing is eerily reminiscent of the Roman saga during its beginnings, but if thats the way they want to operate, bidding for literally everyone under the sun, then they're going to find themsleves like we did after 2003-04. Trophyless, managerless, and with a bunch of headcases nobody is willing to pay for because of their huge wages. As people have said here, building a title winner takes far more than that.

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> Have We Lost Our Supremecy?, Is the Robinho transfer the sign of things to come?

In a word - 'no'

Man City got lucky with their choice of target. If they had gone for any other player on Monday , they wouldnt have got him (see Berbatov)

Robinho had dug himself into such a hole at Real , he had to go. He had no choice.

If we hadve matched their bid, he would be a Chelsea player now. I defy anyone to deny that.

Once it became clear we were not going to break the transfer record for this player, he was f**ked.

There is absolutely no way on earth Robhino wanted to be a City player (ignore what he says) He created this predicament and no on else. At some stage next week he will go to training and look around and see Vassell and Dunne and not Snidjer and Robben and think 'what the f**k'?

I have no problem with City at all and wish them best of luck but they wont find it this easy to get big name players in the future i can assure everyone of that.

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I agree in general with the theme of really great players wanting to go to an established club rather than follow the money. But there are a lot of very good players that will follow the money.

Make no mistake, we will have to fight directly with City over realistic targets - the likes of Silva, Aguerro and Arshavin in January and next summer - and Roman had better be prepared to get the chequebook out unless we want a repeat of the Robinho situation.

If you remember back to when Roman took us over, we had no trouble luring the likes of Crespo, Makalele, Mutu and Veron - who were all top players at the time, and came from big clubs. I'm not saying that money was the only motivation for these players coming to us, but it was a very large part. From a players perspective (particularly those towards the end of their careers), it is difficult to turn down an offer from a club that puts you on double your previous wage.

I suppose the big difference with us is when Roman took over we were already a top four team and were in the Champion's League. So definately a lot better propect for players that where City are now.

I think that how well City do long term is going to come down to three things. How comitted, deep pocketed and patient City's owners are.

To improve City's squad to top four standard is going to take some serious spending - not just in the final hours of the transfer window, but in January, and next summer as well.

When you compare their situation with ours - when Roman took us over, we were already a top four team. His cash injection changed us immediately into a title-chasing team. City are starting from one or two rungs below us, I think they will find that the step from top-four to title challenger is probably

I think that their stated goal of Champion's League qualification for them this season is going to be a very tall order. Even with Robinho, the squad isn't top four standard currently. I think they will be too far gone by January to put in a serious challenge no matter what reinforcements come in then. So it will definately require a bit of patience on the part of the new owner as well, and long term comittment to the club.

Good luck to them though. I would much rather see City grab 4th spot than the scousers scraping in again.

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This whole Robinho case sounds like Tevez/Mascerano few years back. WestHam bought two world class players and everybody was wondering why are they going to a mid-table team. It only took a year before those guys went where they originally should have gone.

ManCity really needs to break the bank January if they want Robinho to stay. Gladly for all the other teams in the Prem they only managed to get Robinho. Although no one really can buy Robinho now apart from us but I dont think 32mill will be enough.

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