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Joe Cole: He's Not That Good.


biru

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Joe Cole has had one (count them) outstanding season in a Chelsea shirt - the one before he got injured. Since then, he's had a few outstanding games, and very little else. The more step-overs he does, and the more times he flings himself to the ground in an outrageously bad dive, the less effective he becomes. Mourinho made him take responsibility on the field, whereas Grant let him slide back into excess.

I like Joe, and at times he can be very exciting to watch. However, he's gone back to being more show-pony than serious attacking threat, and that makes him extremely expendable. As for last season's POTY award, I can only assume that people were drunk when they voted.

Not true. What Jose expected, and demanded of Joe was that he show some discipline - such as tackling back after he'd lost the ball, and showing some judgement in when to go for it, and when to pass to a team mate instead. That it wasn't all about tricks and flicks. And it made Joe a much, much better player - as is evidenced by his form and effect during Jose's second season (coincidentally, Joe's best in a Chelsea shirt).

What Avram did, was to let Joe do what he liked, and forget about the discipline, and Joe's form and contribution to the team was poorer for it. He went back to being inconsistent - not good for the team, and not good for Joe. Forget the POTY voting - that was only a popularity vote, and no one's ever denied that Joe is popular (with good reason).

Well it shouldn't because most of the time Joe skates by with little, if any, criticism directed at him, whereas players like Drogba and Lampard cop plenty if their form even drops below 'perfect'. And really, is anyone here 'jumping all over' Joe? Don't think so.

I don't think that anyone questions Joe's commitment, or loyalty. And I'd imagine that most would acknowledge that yes, he is our most-talented forward (in terms of his creativity). He's also undeniably likable. What has been questioned about Joe is his consistency, and those (many) games where he indulges himself with mindless step-overs and tricks that lead to nothing - to the detriment of the team effort. There is an element of show-pony in Joe that needs to be harnessed for him to fulfill his potential. Mourinho managed to do it, but Grant failed. I hope that Scolari manages to put some of that back into Joe's game.

Of course. Is anyone saying that they don't? And when it comes off, it's great. But equally there are a lot of times when it comes to nothing because Joe takes on one-too-many defenders, tries one-too-many step-overs, and/or fails to see a better-placed team mate - and the opportunity goes begging.

Yes, he does. Wouldn't you like to see 'crucial' element of Joe's game deliver more end-product, more often? I would, but too often he flatters to deceive.

It certainly would be - but who's doing that? You say also that Joe isn't above criticism, but judging from many of the responses here, it seems that many think that he should be. I think the criticism of Joe is mild by comparison to other Chelsea players, and yet some seem to believe that even that's tantamount to heresy.

I can only guess that you must have missed them all.......:P

From another Chelsea forum.

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Deco injured we could fit him in that role. He passes lot better forward than crosses the ball. Besides Deco might be injured again sometime this season and coverage for him wouldn't hurt. I think Joey could do well in the center. We could try that in our next home game in the first half. If it doesn't work swap him for Kalou and play the wing game.

The truth is Bosingwa replaces the winger by himself. The amount of harm Joey has recently cost to opposing defenders is not much whereas Jose runs the flank, defends and puts in delicious crosses.

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Joe's problem, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, is he is tactically thick. There is no doubting he has outstanding skill but then so did that Oriental guy who juggles a ball probably better than anyone else but it didn't make him a good player on the pitch.

It is Joe's lack of tactical nous that tells me he could not fill Deco's boots in the middle. His skill says he should be able to but his brain lets him down and this is what drove Jose to distraction and even made Capello bawl him out in a recent International.

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Can't really argue with the notion that Joe cole has only had one truly outstanding season for us..

I mean he was used sparingly by Claudio, who would rather play scott parker on right wing to protect his full back than let joe attack the opposition. that said i think he also prefferd Jimmy at fullback??

In jose's first season it was very much the Duff and robben show... However, when ever Joe steped in he was effective and excelent.. see barcelona and bayarn at the top end for one example and the games against palace, nowrich, liverpool showing he could put it in against turd opposition as well. could go on but there is no debate that he spent his first two seasons in the shadow of duff and robben. In his third season he was are most potent and best attacking threat for that season. thats the outstanding one i believe we are talking about? capped with a goal off complete brilliance against manur.

the following season he was injured for pretty much the whole of it.. cant really count that.

And last seaosn In my oppinion he was poor by what i consider to be his own standerds set in his "outstanding" season. but id also point out that, lampard, terry, drogba and chec where all pretty inconsistent as wel.. prehaps somthing to do with grant? who knows....

This year he's not been great for me, not bad but not great i think he's had one very good game and then been pretty quiet..

Bascialy, when you put it in to perspective he's not be to bad at all... add to that he's actually the best wide option we have at the moment.. its like it or lump it

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I am hoping that Joe takes a good look at the way Deco plays, and takes something from it.

In a lot of ways, they are very similar players - but in a lot of ways they are not. I think that when Joe matures as a player over the next few years, he will gravitate towards a central role like Deco now plays, but he has a fair bit of maturing to do first.

I think what lets Joe down more than anything else is picking the right thing to do at the right time - and that is something that Deco is absolutely brilliant at.

It's not like Deco doesn't produce the tricks, the killer balls or the spectacular goals - he does. He picks the right time to do them, and the rest of the time, picks the right option to move the ball on quickly and efficiently, then move into space.

With Joe, it always seems like one or the other. Either he has decided to single handedly win a game, and he tries to create a goal with every touch he gets (leading to a lot of broken down attacks and lost possession), or he decides to "play for the team" - no tricks at all, no lost possession as all his balls are sideways or backwards, and he runs around all over the park pretending he is Essien, leaving us a bit short on options in the attacking third.

What Mourinho had him doing in his 2nd season with us is to blend his natural talent with a bit of tactical discipline - which he did well, and was a key part of the second titile win. That goal he got against Manure at the end of that season was the icing on the cake.

Unfortunately since then, he picked up an injury for most of his third season, then JM left, then their was utter confusion as to what he (or anyone else) was supposed to be doing under Grant. Under Scolari he's been given a new role, and it is still early days. In a way, it is ANOTHER crossroads in his career, and he's had a few of them so far.

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I am hoping that Joe takes a good look at the way Deco plays, and takes something from it.

I'd agree there to a certain extent. I have always seen Joe in that 'No.10' role and think he could do it brilliantly, but as others have touched on, he doesn't appear to have the footballing brain to match his natural ability.

But whilst on Deco, although he is a great player it is still very early days for him at CFC and I think people are getting pretty carried away. For all the great stuff he's done, there have also been a fair number of very lazy passes / giving away possession in bad areas cheaply - the sort of thing when Joe has done in the past he has been absolutley slaughtered for.

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I am hoping that Joe takes a good look at the way Deco plays, and takes something from it.

In a lot of ways, they are very similar players - but in a lot of ways they are not. I think that when Joe matures as a player over the next few years, he will gravitate towards a central role like Deco now plays, but he has a fair bit of maturing to do first.

I think what lets Joe down more than anything else is picking the right thing to do at the right time - and that is something that Deco is absolutely brilliant at.

It's not like Deco doesn't produce the tricks, the killer balls or the spectacular goals - he does. He picks the right time to do them, and the rest of the time, picks the right option to move the ball on quickly and efficiently, then move into space.

With Joe, it always seems like one or the other. Either he has decided to single handedly win a game, and he tries to create a goal with every touch he gets (leading to a lot of broken down attacks and lost possession), or he decides to "play for the team" - no tricks at all, no lost possession as all his balls are sideways or backwards, and he runs around all over the park pretending he is Essien, leaving us a bit short on options in the attacking third.

What Mourinho had him doing in his 2nd season with us is to blend his natural talent with a bit of tactical discipline - which he did well, and was a key part of the second titile win. That goal he got against Manure at the end of that season was the icing on the cake.

Unfortunately since then, he picked up an injury for most of his third season, then JM left, then their was utter confusion as to what he (or anyone else) was supposed to be doing under Grant. Under Scolari he's been given a new role, and it is still early days. In a way, it is ANOTHER crossroads in his career, and he's had a few of them so far.

You took the words out of my...keyboard. He is usually in a out of sync with the attackers when he is playing on the wing. When a quick cross is needed as the attackers are nearing the goalscoring spots Joey decides to make a few dribbles leaving the attackers standing. And many times when a cross is needed he tries to break in from the flank himself. All the other players are in 'wrong' positions then to react on Joeys possible pass. Joey is not a bad passer, actually at times his passes are pure brilliance but when his teammates are expecting a pass or a cross he should deliver.

I think Joey might be doing the right things at the practice ground, giving perfect crosses and delivering perfect flicks but in games he wants to do more and show more which leads to wrong decisions. Just a theory, never seen him in practice.

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It may surprise some, but I actually think that Joe can be "that good". His problem, as mentioned by a few already, is that he has bags of ability but is not the brightest spark in the box. A lot of people felt that he got a raw deal under Mourinho, but I think Jose was the best thing that happened to him. He wasn't indulged but rather was made to play for the team and gradually that brought the best out of him. I think we all agree that the 05/06 season was his best. Unfortunately, he spent most of the next season injured and then Grant came in and the discipline went out of the window. The result was mixed. We saw him play some terrific games where he was outstanding as an individual but he also had some stinkers and disappeared off the radar altogether at the sharp end of the season. This year he has been OK without being great - his best performances have come for England rather than Chelsea. Scolari seems to know what he is doing and I suspect he will ride Joe a bit harder than Grant and that we will see him responding to that.

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Why I am a huge fan of Joe's and why I think he is that good.... and needs to get a bit of a run going thats all.

- Our player of the seaosn last year (okay not a lot on this forum agree but he did have a good one.

- Not as good as two seasons ago when he was one of the best players I have seen for about half the season

- He is decptively quick and strong

- Quarter final against Munich.. ran the show.. like Roy Keane against Juventus that the pundit drool over.. (I Can see why some people say thick though... he said for the crosss for Drogbas header that he was knackered and just swung his leg at the ball)

- Been on average I reckon Englands best player of the last four years.

- Mad Macs avatar :wub: ... if Messi or Ronaldo , or Ronaldhino or Kaka had doen that to Manures defense we would have been drooling ... left Rio for dead.

- Important goals.. over his years at Chelsea.. think it was his second season the two against Liverpool ?

Most important of all.. and lets not forget this because it happens few and far betwwen these days.. He is one of us,.. he supported Chelsea as a lad and went to games ! .. I probably bumped into him on occasion and never knew it :169:

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Most important of all.. and lets not forget this because it happens few and far betwwen these days.. He is one of us,.. he supported Chelsea as a lad and went to games ! .. I probably bumped into him on occasion and never knew it ;)

Surely that is the least important of all in terms of assessing how good he is or can be? It's a good reason to support him but not very helpful in telling us how good he is.

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Most important of all.. and lets not forget this because it happens few and far betwwen these days.. He is one of us,.. he supported Chelsea as a lad and went to games ! .. I probably bumped into him on occasion and never knew it :P

cole-joe.jpg

First thing that came to mind when I first saw that is... ;)

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