Bayer Leverkusen v Chelsea (CL) 23/11/11 KO 19:45 GMT

[just]

The Liverplod game is, as they like to say, 'istory, so onwards and upwards and bring on the jermans. Yes its time once again for the Champion's League thingy that Roman coverts more than any other, well, apart from a new ground and super, super sexski football.

Of course we all want to win every game, but perhaps it could be argued, in this "transformation season" going out of the competition early could be a blessing in disguise? No distraction from the PL, focus solely the race for a top four place and qualification for next year's CL.

[The Brit]

think chelsea have to stay in it regardless...confidence is fragile at the moment so going out of europe would be a killer...especially for avb's future at the club...can't see roman being happy to go out of europe as part of the transition...squad is good enough to get through...this game is massive...can't....afford....to.....lose

Edited November 21, 2011 by The Brit

[SHELLY]

Going out at this stage would probably mean the end for AVB and the transformation season would be back to the drawing board...

I'm not feeling very confident about this fixture....

[mclovin83]

Hard to feel confident about any fixture at the moment.

We need this win for all sorts of reasons.....

Am I correct in thinking that should we lose this (assuming Valencia beat Genk) then we could enter the match at home to Valencia on the final game week of the competition needing a win to qualify? I really don't want to be in that position the way he have conceded this season.

Very interested to see what team he plays for this one, for me there are some key decisions that need to be addressed:

1) Who is our first choice striker? Drobga or Torres? Decide, and play them.

2) Defensive midfield- it needs addressing. Would really like to see Luiz tried in this position, Oriel has got to be considerered more regularly for me also....

3) Who are our prefered central defenders? Alex has started 2 games this season and they ar the only 2 games where we have kept a clean sheet, read into that what you will.....

4) What role should Mata play, seems to start wide but then moved to the centr where he is more effective, should he not just start centrally??

[Andreas]

Very hard to feel confident indeed, I feel like our defence is all over the place and everytime the opposition gets the ball it just gets dangerous..

Anyway he should really start with Meireles, Romeu, Sturridge and Torres in this one.

[smileysmiles]

If he does one thing. Lock Mikel in the bus toilets...

[Eight Times]

The Liverplod game is, as they like to say, 'istory, so onwards and upwards and bring on the jermans. Yes its time once again for the Champion's League thingy that Roman coverts more than any other, well, apart from a new ground and super, super sexski football.

Of course we all want to win every game, but perhaps it could be argued, in this "transformation season" going out of the competition early could be a blessing in disguise? No distraction from the PL, focus solely the race for a top four place and qualification for next year's CL.

Yep, if it means going into the Europa League, and getting to a European final, then great! We'll do Barca in the Super Cup next year, and go

on to win the Premiership.

[icecoolguy22]

Even Scolari got us qualified from the group stage, let's not go there because we are in 'transition'. By his rule of rotation, Torress will play, Mikel will be dropped, Alex will come back, we may even see the return of Boswinga or even Kalou. To be fair, we have been decent in CL so far, just failed to hold on the lead. It's Leverksen, not Barcalona we are playing against. We should go into the game with some confidence and get a result.

[TrojanMan]

1) Who is our first choice striker? Drobga or Torres? Decide, and play them.

For me, it has to be Torres. Mata was brought in to feed Torres. A Mata-Torres-Sturridge front line is built on quickness. Drogba slows that down.

I love the Drogs. The guy has been awesome for us. But with the personnel we have at the moment, and AVB's desire for fast aggressive offense, Torres makes more sense.

2) Defensive midfield- it needs addressing. Would really like to see Luiz tried in this position, Oriel has got to be considerered more regularly for me also....

I've said since we signed him that I'd like to see Luiz given a shot there too. But I don't know. Sometimes he's silky smooth with the ball at his feet, and other times he's a mess. We need confidence and stability back there, or you end up with what Mikel did yesterday.

3) Who are our prefered central defenders? Alex has started 2 games this season and they ar the only 2 games where we have kept a clean sheet, read into that what you will.....

I know the Alex and JT CB partnership has been responsible for both clean sheets, but that still scares me a bit. They're just too slow. Alex playing in place of JT when Terry needs a rest is fine. But without either Luiz or Ivanovic at RCB, I feel like there's not nearly enough pace there to maintain AVB's high line.

4) What role should Mata play, seems to start wide but then moved to the centr where he is more effective, should he not just start centrally??

For now, he almost has to stay out wide because we don't have anybody else who can stretch the defense out there and create some space in the center. If my January fantasy came true and we signed Hazard, then you could have him play out wide and Mata sitting between Torres and the midfield.

[boner]

I think 4-2-3-1 is the way to play if we wanna revert lampard position to deep lying playmaker as he cant screen the back four because he a bit slow to be honest. Torres upfront Juan mata behind him(we can see him playing central role better than wide), ramires on the right,and left hmm malouda for the time being will be a great combination. to partner with lampard I think mereiles will be okay.

[Spiller86]

I'll repeat what I've said over and over again. The key to the defensive midfield position is discipline. Luiz hasn't got the required amount.

I'd expect that we'll see Meireles and Torres start. Kalou might also be in line. Josh has to get a gig for mine.

4-2-1-3 Cech, Ivan, Alex, Terry, Cole, Meireles, Ramires, Josh, Mata, Torres, Sturridge.

[Nibs]

I would line up:

----------------------------------Cech

Ivanovic--------------Alex----------------JT------------Cole

-----------------------------------Luiz

----------Ramires-----------Josh---------------Romeu

--------------------------Mata

-----------------------Torres

Subs: Hilario, Bertrand, Sturridge, Lampard, Miereles, Anelka.

[mclovin83]

I'll repeat what I've said over and over again. The key to the defensive midfield position is discipline. Luiz hasn't got the required amount.

I'd expect that we'll see Meireles and Torres start. Kalou might also be in line. Josh has to get a gig for mine.

4-2-1-3 Cech, Ivan, Alex, Terry, Cole, Meireles, Ramires, Josh, Mata, Torres, Sturridge.

But what he has got is the ability to distribute the ball with a passing range second to nobody at the club, with quality that Mikel will never be able to produce and for this reason, against suitable opposition in suitable circumstances I would like to see how he could do there. He also has energy & drive not too disimilar from Essien in that position going forward, how many times have you seen him charge into the opponents half sucking in defenders leaving gaps for other players causing havoc for them, obviously there needs to be the right amount of balance applied as when to go forward but it is a lethal asset when looking at our midfield options none the less. Now you could say that this is not top priority if he is playing defensive midfield however on occasions his defending has been quality, Man City at home last season for example, he has the legs, energy & determination, just neds to calm it down a bit. He has too much quality not to be in the team although he is capable of his 'mad moments' of defending, perhaps it would be better he commited these mad moments on the half way line rather than in our box.

[Tim W]

We'll win this 2-0. Expect Anelka, Sturridge, Torres all to start . Miereles, Romeu and Lamps will fill the midfield. Luiz will continue in the back four alongside Terry with Ivan and Ash.

BTW Nibs Bertrand is not in the CL squad. Expect Kalou to make the bench, heard he's a good carpenter.

[Nibs]

We'll win this 2-0. Expect Anelka, Sturridge, Torres all to start . Miereles, Romeu and Lamps will fill the midfield. Luiz will continue in the back four alongside Terry with Ivan and Ash.

BTW Nibs Bertrand is not in the CL squad. Expect Kalou to make the bench, heard he's a good carpenter.

I've lost track on our CL squad. I know Lukaku isn't in and Josh is okay 'cos he's only 18 or something but why not Bertrand? So if Ash is injured or suspended, who plays at LB? Don't tell me we might see Paulo up against Messi at some point or can you play about with the squad after the group stages?

[Spiller86]

Don't worry about Paulo, Nibs he'd do the job if we asked him to.

But what he has got is the ability to distribute the ball with a passing range second to nobody at the club, with quality that Mikel will never be able to produce and for this reason, against suitable opposition in suitable circumstances I would like to see how he could do there. He also has energy & drive not too disimilar from Essien in that position going forward, how many times have you seen him charge into the opponents half sucking in defenders leaving gaps for other players causing havoc for them, obviously there needs to be the right amount of balance applied as when to go forward but it is a lethal asset when looking at our midfield options none the less. Now you could say that this is not top priority if he is playing defensive midfield however on occasions his defending has been quality, Man City at home last season for example, he has the legs, energy & determination, just neds to calm it down a bit. He has too much quality not to be in the team although he is capable of his 'mad moments' of defending, perhaps it would be better he commited these mad moments on the half way line rather than in our box.

That's all very nice, but that isn't what the role is about. It's about covering the runs of the fullbacks and circulating the ball quickly when required. You can't have Cole and Ivan or Bosingwa gallivanting around upfield when Luiz is doing the same thing from defensive midfield. You bring up comparisons with Essien, but you haven't mentioned that Essien is far more conservative in that position hence the opinion for many years that he was wasted in the position.

The point is the guy is a centre half, he makes mistakes, fine. But he's still young and will get better with time much like LeBoeuf and Carvalho before him. He has never been a defensive midfielder, so why people are attempting to force him into the role simply because he can pass the football better than the average centre half is beyond me.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Spiller86

[Belgian_SW6_Lover]

Perfect time to give it an other try just like my post on the formation topic

I think we should try to get back to our diamond formation,with a infiltration job for ramires and Luiz as a back up job for the defenders when they are not back on time or something.

We dont have the players to play with the recent kind of formation... mata is not a left mid/attacker,malouda is one but not good enough and to selfish for this level and sturridge no right winger.2 lost places when we play this formation and only 1 central attacker can be brought on.

The target was to get atractive attacking play but even under mourhino we had better attacking football.

I think we must try something like this and we always can change some players...but in this formation there is more place and time for players like romeu,meireles , josh and even lukaku.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Belgian_SW6_Lover

[mclovin83]

Don't worry about Paulo, Nibs he'd do the job if we asked him to.

That's all very nice, but that isn't what the role is about. It's about covering the runs of the fullbacks and circulating the ball quickly when required. You can't have Cole and Ivan or Bosingwa gallivanting around upfield when Luiz is doing the same thing from defensive midfield. You bring up comparisons with Essien, but you haven't mentioned that Essien is far more conservative in that position hence the opinion for many years that he was wasted in the position.

The point is the guy is a centre half, he makes mistakes, fine. But he's still young and will get better with time much like LeBoeuf and Carvalho before him. He has never been a defensive midfielder, so why people are attempting to force him into the role simply because he can pass the football better than the average centre half is beyond me.

I am not trying to force him into anything for the sake of it, it is a position that we are currently weak in and a position where I think his attributes could be a real asset. I also said against suitable opposition and under suitable circumstances, i.e. when we are playing against weaker opposition and are dominating posession but in need of a goal it has quite often been questioned weather we really need a defensive midfielder of the ilk of Mikel, in these instances it could be an option.

You say he has never been a defensive midfielder although I believe he did actually play in this position for Benfica on occasions so it might not be that alien to him, he is also a central defender that has played left back and right back for Benfica, so he is a versatile defender, I understand that defensive midfield is a specialist position but it's not like suggesting that we play Mata in central defence is it, you said yourself he is young so applying that logic there could potentially still be time for him to develop into this role.

[Nibs]

That's all very nice, but that isn't what the role is about. It's about covering the runs of the fullbacks and circulating the ball quickly when required. You can't have Cole and Ivan or Bosingwa gallivanting around upfield when Luiz is doing the same thing from defensive midfield.

For me that brings into question the value of us playing such a formation? How often do Cole, Bosingwa / Ivan bomb forward and put in really dangerous crosses which we benefit from. I know they get the odd one in now and again but it is the exception rather than the norm. So we play a DF and one as one dimentional as Mikel for that? I would rather let Luiz play in that position and let HIM carry the ball forward and tell the full backs to stay exactly where they are. When Luiz does go forward with the ball he does tend to make things happen. When we need a bit of width, we have Mata, Sturridge or Anelka (even Kalou) - we don't need it from the full backs - not the ones we have currently anyway.

[nonotnowjim]

Cant see Luiz at DM - AVB has said so much, and i entirely agree with Spiller86 - Luiz just does not have the Discipline for the DM role.

Luiz is a CB. He is a good CB and has the tools to be a world class CB - but he needs to be managed and coached and given a boot up the arse when needed.

Personally i would prefer to see Luiz stay at CB alongside Alex or Ivan. Give a new paring a go, if we continue to leak goals then all the JT enthusiasts can have their praise justified.

If we continue to leak goals then the same will go to the JT haters.

For me, JT is still a world class CB but i really think that he should be taken out of the firing line for a few weeks and rested. It looks like the current media storm is having an effect on his game and he has not looked like the usual dependable player he once was. Fergie had no hesitation in taking Rooney out of the team during his multiple indiscretions, and i think now would be a good time to follow suit and rest JT...whats the worst that can happen?

Alternatively i think LB is a better option for Luiz. He played there previously and our system allows the LB to get forward more... for me LB would be far more suitable than DM

Thoughts?

[mclovin83]

Cant see Luiz at DM - AVB has said so much, and i entirely agree with Spiller86 - Luiz just does not have the Discipline for the DM role.

Luiz is a CB. He is a good CB and has the tools to be a world class CB - but he needs to be managed and coached and given a boot up the arse when needed.

Personally i would prefer to see Luiz stay at CB alongside Alex or Ivan. Give a new paring a go, if we continue to leak goals then all the JT enthusiasts can have their praise justified.

If we continue to leak goals then the same will go to the JT haters.

For me, JT is still a world class CB but i really think that he should be taken out of the firing line for a few weeks and rested. It looks like the current media storm is having an effect on his game and he has not looked like the usual dependable player he once was. Fergie had no hesitation in taking Rooney out of the team during his multiple indiscretions, and i think now would be a good time to follow suit and rest JT...whats the worst that can happen?

Alternatively i think LB is a better option for Luiz. He played there previously and our system allows the LB to get forward more... for me LB would be far more suitable than DM

Thoughts?

The thing is I don't think we are short of talent at left back with Cole & Bertrand as deputy, defensive midfield on the other hand we are not so spoiled for choice.

[german-blue]

line up for me should be

---------------------------Cech---------------------------

---Ivan---------------Alex---------JT---------Ashley----

----------------------Ramires---Romeu------------------

--------------Mata----------------------Josh---------------

------------------------Sturridge-Torres-------------------

Mata and Josh in creatives roles drifting in and out on the wing as they want...

[P4L.Chelsea]

Im just going to say one thing

I took a look at phil jones , and then got shocked when he was forced to play at DM

I dint really think he would make it , but hes young , hes got good heart , and they like throwing him in different positions to see which suits him best , because even he makes bombing runs when he plays as CB ,and doesnt watch out for his position , which leaves them exposed

Luiz is much better at doing that , and he has a much better touch , and i think he has the biggest heart and passion

WHen you put a CB in DM , you have the aerial advantage , and also they tend to put in more tackles and more pressure , being trained as a CB , rotating the ball shouldnt be hard for our man LUiz , hes got great touch , and im pretty sure he can pull off tricks

Till he gets adjusted to the system , i really prefer experience over pace and i think we should just switch between Alex , JT , Ivan , and when Bruma comes back , give bruma a try to see how he works out

ATM , Luiz for DM , i agree too , If sir alex and capello saw something good in jones to play him at DM , i see much more in Luiz, he should be tried as a DM in one game atleast

[Tortilla9]

^{Anelka apparently did not travel with the team to Germany.}

^{http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/22112011/63/anelka-misses-chelsea-trip.html}

[Zeta]

I'm tired of posting lineups that I'd like to see, it never comes true. I just hope that at some point this season AVB realises he has a great player in McEachran, who is already miles ahead of some of the first choice players and actually gives him a chance. I won't hold my breath though.