Amy Winehouse RIP

Status
Not open for further replies.
When did I disrespect her?? I never even said anything about her....
Really?

Again its not accidental to get addicted its a progress that you start because you are too weak too deal with life, unable to make rational decisions or because you are ignoring the dangers because you have a lack of self respect. (as in amys case).
You don't want to blame the drugs, you prefer to blame specific character traits which is remarkable for someone that didn't know her. It's a over-simplified, uninformed and disrespectful conclusion.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sorry but I cant see how I disrespect her there. I just tell the facts... Everybody who shoots Heroin has lost self-respect because he is deliberately destroying himself. If you make rational decisions you dont start to do it in the first place. Hard to argue with that really.... Amy had a urge to destroy herself its obvious really, you dont take Crack,Heroin and are a heavy drinker unless you really do want to destroy yourself. If it wouldnt have been the drugs she would have found other ways to destroy herself and exactly because of that drugs are not to blame.

And you say that its wrong to blame Amy´s wrong decisions for her misery... Thats ridiculous really, is Amy some 12 years old kid or a adult person?

You can give hundreds of excuses (or explanations) for beeing drug addicted but that doesnt change the fact that the root of all evil have been unrational decisions that were made while beeing totally clear about the possible consequences. (every idiot knows what heroin abuse does to you)

Unless someone injected Heroin into you against your will it was your decision to take Heroin ... so why would I feel empathy for someone like that if he blames his misery on drugs but not on his wrong decisions. Its like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute and then blaming the others because they didnt stop you.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's not disrespectful to describe the personality traits which led to Amy's death? I was just reading where her Dad said she was clean in recent years. I'm not saying he was right or wrong, but at least he knew her - your words are very personal and are just guesses. She could have died of kidney failure for all we know.

But to your big point - who exactly is blaming the drugs but not themselves? Surely not users, I've known more than a few and they generally blame themselves. Do you mean society, left to carry on and trying to forgive rather than blame? Better that than to generalize every overdose as weak losers who got what they deserve. A million babies have been born with heroin in their system, altering their biology for life - that is a predisposition. That alone doesn't make one a user, but it certainly raises doubts about your one-size-fits-all view of something so complicated.

 
Sorry but I cant see how I disrespect her there. I just tell the facts... Everybody who shoots Heroin has lost self-respect because he is deliberately destroying himself. If you make rational decisions you dont start to do it in the first place. Hard to argue with that really.... Amy had a urge to destroy herself its obvious really, you dont take Crack,Heroin and are a heavy drinker unless you really do want to destroy yourself. If it wouldnt have been the drugs she would have found other ways to destroy herself and exactly because of that drugs are not to blame.

And you say that its wrong to blame Amy´s wrong decisions for her misery... Thats ridiculous really, is Amy some 12 years old kid or a adult person?

You can give hundreds of excuses (or explanations) for beeing drug addicted but that doesnt change the fact that the root of all evil have been unrational decisions that were made while beeing totally clear about the possible consequences. (every idiot knows what heroin abuse does to you)

Unless someone injected Heroin into you against your will it was your decision to take Heroin ... so why would I feel empathy for someone like that if he blames his misery on drugs but not on his wrong decisions. Its like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute and then blaming the others because they didnt stop you.
The problem here - and excuse me for repeating myself - is that your every post is shallow, simplistic, overly judgemental and sadly devoid of empathy.

"Why would I feel empathy for someone like that?" you say. Indeed why should you feel empathy for anyone who takes a wrong turn, makes a mistake, doesn't comply with your own simplistically moralistic set of standards?

"You can give hundreds of excuses (or explanations) for being drug addicted but that doesn't change the fact that the root of all evil have been unrational decisions". I see. So only rational decisions are allowable. Unrational decisions are inexcusable, the root of all evil. This is incredibly simplistic. And so so wrong. You even fail to differentiate between an explanation and an excuse. People have problems with which they find themselves unable to cope, they feel they have nobody to turn to and end up turning to drugs. In your mind, that's just an excuse. But it's NOT. It's NOT excusing the behaviour, it's an admittedly simplified explanation of how some people might become addicted to drugs. Similarly the "bad boy glamour" (glamour as in false illusion") that many find so appealing. This isn't an excuse either. It's not saying "oh it's ok to use heroin because of the bad boy glamour, it's an explanation of why heroin might appeal to some people.

Why did Amy Winehouse turn to drugs? I don't know. I've never met her. I have not made it my business to scour the newspapers. The information in my posts has been based on previous experience of addicts I have known. The opinions are a little more than that, but this is something I'm not prepared to go into here and now. You however, feel perfectly at liberty to make a blanket assessment of Amy WInehouse and any other heroin user. According to you, she must have lost all self-respect, had an urge to deliberately destroy herself, and worst of all... is completely undeserving of empathy.

With reference to the first paragraph of yorkleyblue's post, there's a direct reference which you may or may not have missed, that I feel many here have been trying to avoid. I know I have. But enough of that.

If your posts in this thread at home are anything to go by, you would have felt right at home in the Hitler Youth.

 
moi whats with all this hating??
I have never in any of my posts expressed anything that could be described as hatred. The most I feel for you is exasperation that you persist in sweeping aside proven medical facts and substitute your own anecdotal evidence. What I find particularly exasperating is your inability to show compassion for those less able to cope with life's vicissitudes. You are, as you and others have said, entitled to your own opinion. I and others are also entitled to express the view that your intransigeant opinions do you no credit.

Moi is more intelligent than almost anyone on this forum, surely you've learned that by now.
My intelligence is not relevant to this discussion, except in as much as it is a mark of intelligent thinking to review one's opinions in the light of scientific facts.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If your posts in this thread at home are anything to go by, you would have felt right at home in the Hitler Youth.
I knew some Nazi remark would come around one time or another... how ridiculous that is considering my gf, fiancee to be more exact, is note even european, is obvious i think.

Thats just classless... Do I make remarks about the crimes of the British Empire and the ongoing problems that are still present even in the 21st century?

 
I knew some Nazi remark would come around one time or another... how ridiculous that is considering my gf, fiancee to be more exact, is note even european, is obvious i think.

Thats just classless... Do I make remarks about the crimes of the British Empire and the ongoing problems that are still present even in the 21st century?
Again, you're missing the point. Which isn't that you display any kind of anti-Semitism, but that you state that a group of fellow human beings are undeserving of empathy. The implication is that you are somehow separate from and superior to such people. How did the Nazi's justify their attitude towards and treatment of the Jews? Because of their own sense of superiority, because they regarded non-Aryans, homosexuals, drug addicts and so on, as less than human, undeserving of human kindness or consideration, let alone empathy.

This lack of empathy is also common to psychopaths. An inability to feel empathy towards your fellow human beings is a serious character flaw. And before you jump all over that one, I'm not accusing you of being a psychopath either, any more than I was actually accusing you of being a Nazi. I just think you've got a lot of growing up to do. Hence the comparison with the Nazi Youth.

You mention the British Empire. If anything I've written has been remotely jingoistic in tone, then you'd be perfectly correct to accuse me of a yearning for the days of Empire.

yorkleyblue's post incidentally, refers to a scene from "Cabaret", the "tall blond lad in leather shorts, standing up outside a cafe singing "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" being a member of the Nazi Youth.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hutch her version of that song is absolutely fantastic. Almost her best IMO.

 
Again, you're missing the point. Which isn't that you display any kind of anti-Semitism, but that you state that a group of fellow human beings are undeserving of empathy. The implication is that you are somehow separate from and superior to such people. How did the Nazi's justify their attitude towards and treatment of the Jews? Because of their own sense of superiority, because they regarded non-Aryans, homosexuals, drug addicts and so on, as less than human, undeserving of human kindness or consideration, let alone empathy.

This lack of empathy is also common to psychopaths. An inability to feel empathy towards your fellow human beings is a serious character flaw. And before you jump all over that one, I'm not accusing you of being a psychopath either, any more than I was actually accusing you of being a Nazi. I just think you've got a lot of growing up to do. Hence the comparison with the Nazi Youth.

You mention the British Empire. If anything I've written has been remotely jingoistic in tone, then you'd be perfectly correct to accuse me of a yearning for the days of Empire.

yorkleyblue's post incidentally, refers to a scene from "Cabaret", the "tall blond lad in leather shorts, standing up outside a cafe singing "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" being a member of the Nazi Youth.
I have no empathy for people who ruin their lives and then blame drugs on it and I have growing up to do so you tell me that I fit well into the Hilter Youth.... Got it. Beeing German has nothing to do with it right?? :laugh2:

Telling me I have to grow up and have character flaw´s is kind of you feeling superior to me aswell. Maybe you should be the one going to Hitler Youth after all.

Oh and by the way what do you even know about Hitler Youth? I guess very little otherwise you would realise that what you say is total bollox.... Every little german child went there because it was mandatory that doesnt mean that memebers of Hilter Youth are immature or mean or anything like that. They were just regular young folks thats all ... Dont be blinded by some story about SS-Division "Hitlerjungend" or whatever the name was...that has nothing to do with that at all expect the name

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have no empathy for people who ruin their lives and then blame drugs on it and I have growing up to do so you tell me that I fit well into the Hilter Youth.... Got it. Beeing German has nothing to do with it right?? :laugh2:

Telling me I have to grow up and have character flaw´s is kind of you feeling superior to me aswell. Maybe you should be the one going to Hitler Youth after all.

Oh and by the way what do you even know about Hitler Youth? I guess very little otherwise you would realise that what you say is total bollox.... Every little german child went there because it was mandatory that doesnt mean that memebers of Hilter Youth are immature or mean or anything like that. They were just regular young folks thats all ... Dont be blinded by some story about SS-Division "Hitlerjungend" or whatever the name was...that has nothing to do with that at all expect the name
Now I know you can read, but you do seem to have problems with interpretation. Throughout this thread you've zoomed in on the least relevant phrases, taken things out of context and basically refused to admit that anyone but yourself has a valid opinion.

Telling me I have to grow up and have character flaw´s is kind of you feeling superior to me aswell
I wrote that a lack of empathy is a character flaw. Which it is. How I feel about myself is irrelevant.

You also assume that I have no knowledge of the Hitler Youth. Not true actually, but never mind. You've also managed to either ignore or dismiss everything I've written about addicts and the nature of addiction.

Maybe when you've grown up a bit, you might develop a little empathy for your fellow human beings who have made mistakes, taken wrong decisions, and basically f**ked things up. Because in your current view of the world,. it appears that only weak minded fools unworthy of empathy or other human consideration are capable of f**king things up.

 
I bet poor old Amy is up there (or down there) somewhere reading this thread and chuckling away to herself.

Or Maybe Not.

:(

 
You also assume that I have no knowledge of the Hitler Youth. Not true actually, but never mind.
If I remember right you were in the Hammersmith & Fulham troop weren't you?

 
If I remember right you were in the Hammersmith & Fulham troop weren't you?
Ah yes those were the days. Edward Elizabeth Hitler's gang. Weren't you in the Richard Richards?

 
It is bring reported that she died because of giving up the booze ! ...... Right mines a pint :)

And she was well clear of the drugs

Damn this clean living she got what she deserved. ;)

God bless you Amy

 
Ah yes those were the days. Edward Elizabeth Hitler's gang. Weren't you in the Richard Richards?
Certainly was, still got the uniform somewhere, bit tight across the chest nowadays.

On another note - nice of Mitch to give her clothes away to fans - hope these don't end up of e-bay - the clothes not the fans.

 
It's just been announced that a toxicology report has shown that no illegal substances were found in Amy Winehouse's body.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top