Anthony Taylor

[Boyne]

We have someone who is involved with the supporters trust I believe. That right @Boyne ? Able to bring this up there?

What exactly would that achieve ?. Terrible refs are part of the game supporters trusts are concerned with ticket prices, stadium matters, safety etc not dodgy decisions against us. @Boyne would be seen as a crank if he brought it up and he's a very sensible and top bloke 

@axman2526 Yes, I belong to the Chelsea Supporters Trust and have done so for the last few years but am not on the committee. @bluehaze As you say, by and large, the CST concentrates on such matters as ticket allocations and prices; changing of fixtures for TV and safe standing. I can't recall the CST commenting on the performances and biases of referees including Taylor. I could approach the CST and in turn they could contact the club's board and ask them to approach the FA, Premier League and Uncle Tom Cobley and All but for what purpose. Would the FA etc appoint a referee other than Taylor? I doubt it unless there are very strong grounds and proof that Taylor is wrong., incompetent and biased. And what's to say that the team we played would be happy with the replacement especially if that person had made decisions which upset their players and clubs. @Upsetter Interesting statistics you posted above.

 Don't get me wrong, I thought the red card for James was harsh but as others have pointed out right under the current rules. We could get another referee rather than Taylor and what's to say that the replacement wouldn't make the same decision. I'm not aware of other referees losing a match because of alleged bias but am happy to be proved wrong. Referees have been making mistakes for years. A few years back when we played Arsenal the ref sent off the wrong player and who can forget Elleray's performance in the 1994 FA Cup Final. Still makes me annoyed after all these years but what can be done.  I've lost count of the poor refereeing decisions over the years. I recall the terrible decision made by Taylor in the FA Cup Final.

@bluehaze Thank you for your kind words.  

 

[Scott Harris]

Calling for him to be removed may seem a bit childish, but it's not unheard of, and it's actually happened in the past when clubs have complained about a refs performance. Liverpool do it now and again and United under Ferguson did it all of the time. 

This wouldn't just be a knee jerk reaction either, we are talking about years worth of mistakes that has cost us points and trophies. Arsenal won 2 fa cup finals against us on the back of him getting calls badly wrong, the Sanchez clear handball that led to their goal and Kovacic getting sent off for having his own foot stood on. 

Then you have the Premier League game against Man United in 2020. Willian was booked for diving, when he was clearly caught by a trailing leg. Isn't it odd that a ref decides to book Willian in this situation when they haven't been booking players for diving for years now? In the same game, Maguire clearly kicks Batshuayi in the balls, everybody knew what he did, but no red card. A goal was ruled out in the same game after Azpilicueta was punished for pushing a Man United player in the lead up to the goal.......ignoring the part where Fred is the one that actually pushed Azpilicueta into the Man United player.

There was also the Tottenham game where he was made to look like an absolute clown for booking Alonso after Gazzaniga flew at him after missing the ball. VAR had to get involved and they didn't even tell him to look at the monitor because it was so obvious what happened. How can he be the only person that didn't see it?

Against Liverpool, he was awful throughout. Liverpool were playing tactical fouls all day, especially Fabinho, and not one of their players were booked. It's like the new rules on refs being more lenient gave Taylor an excuse to screw us over once more. Then you had Salah booting the ball away which should have been an automatic yellow, Taylor ignored that though but was more than happy to give Mendy a yellow for the same thing. He also ignored the many over the top complaints from Liverpool players every time a decision didn't go their way, but as soon as our players complained, he would book them.

The VAR incident was handled terribly. Whether you think it was a handball and red card or not, one thing we can surely agree on is how badly Taylor reviewed the situation. He didn't even look at the video, he looks at a still image from a distance and gives the penalty. It pretty much confirms that he had already made his mind up. Personally, I thought the penalty was fair enough, but if Taylor had actually looked at it properly without bias, he would have seen that the goal had already been denied with James blocking the shot with his leg, the part with his arm came milliseconds after James had already stopped the ball from going into the net with his leg. If Taylor had actually bothered to watch a video instead of just looking at a still image from a distance, he would have seen this and maybe he could have had a proper idea of what happened in that situation.

I won't sign the petition because it's stupid. Even if it was a serious petition, I still wouldnt sign it because they never work, but I do think the club should speak up about this. I think we have every right to voice our complaints about this and even be suspicious of Taylor's officiating. I have always hated that fans, pundits and the media laugh at others for questioning whether certain refs are legit or not. In a sport full of corruption and cheating, why is it so hard to believe that there may be a few bent refs in the game? Clattenburg admitted to it a few years back and Mark Halsey came out and said he was told to lie and say he didn't see certain incidents. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that there are dodgy refs in the game, and it shouldn't be laughed off as fans being bitter because a few decisions didn't go their way.

 

[coco]

Jesus... Scott i need a lie down now. 

 

[RMH]

The anti Chelsea agenda theory - touted on a regular basis here - does not sit well with me either. Re Taylor it's probably more a case of regular incompetency, which is a discussion in general about the level of refereeing in the PL (no idea how lower leagues are faring).

I don’t think that it is a case of incompetence, I genuinely think he has a bias against Chelsea (subconscious bias is a thing now talked about HR to all employees in the UK). It’s all about how he referees all our games and how you see him making big mistakes against us consistently. Consistency makes a trend. Do I think that the complain is going to make a change? Nope, but I think that someone has to make it obvious to the fa. I don’t think the club has to get involved, we are already not favoured by them, but it is obvious that this ref has to be stopped and I hope that we make him aware what we think about him at the Bridge when he comes to referee us. He is a c**t, that’s for sure.

 

[Liam]

Somehow I feel many clubs have this same thread in their respective forums. 

Agenda against Chelsea sh*te doesn't sit well with me. 

James thing for me was a mistake that didn't consider football as a contest. First hit on James' arm that stopped the ball going in James couldn't do anything with. The second swing with his arm probably made the ref go for red. Did James deserve a red. Never in a million years. Even Liverpool players thought it was extremely harsh. Taylor made a mistake and that is it. It cost us probably a win as Liverpool didn't have one clear cut scoring chance in the game. 

I would leave Taylor alone and hope something like this doesn't happen to us again. 

The match thread on Red and White Kop forum is about 50% posts on how Taylor f**ks Liverpool everytime.

 

[axman2526]

Great post @Scott Harris

 

[RMH]

The match thread on Red and White Kop forum is about 50% posts on how Taylor f**ks Liverpool everytime.

He’s probably got to the dead rats in the dustbins before they’ve got to their treats

 

[Munkunku]

Calling for him to be removed may seem a bit childish, but it's not unheard of, and it's actually happened in the past when clubs have complained about a refs performance. Liverpool do it now and again and United under Ferguson did it all of the time. 

This wouldn't just be a knee jerk reaction either, we are talking about years worth of mistakes that has cost us points and trophies. Arsenal won 2 fa cup finals against us on the back of him getting calls badly wrong, the Sanchez clear handball that led to their goal and Kovacic getting sent off for having his own foot stood on. 

Then you have the Premier League game against Man United in 2020. Willian was booked for diving, when he was clearly caught by a trailing leg. Isn't it odd that a ref decides to book Willian in this situation when they haven't been booking players for diving for years now? In the same game, Maguire clearly kicks Batshuayi in the balls, everybody knew what he did, but no red card. A goal was ruled out in the same game after Azpilicueta was punished for pushing a Man United player in the lead up to the goal.......ignoring the part where Fred is the one that actually pushed Azpilicueta into the Man United player.

There was also the Tottenham game where he was made to look like an absolute clown for booking Alonso after Gazzaniga flew at him after missing the ball. VAR had to get involved and they didn't even tell him to look at the monitor because it was so obvious what happened. How can he be the only person that didn't see it?

Against Liverpool, he was awful throughout. Liverpool were playing tactical fouls all day, especially Fabinho, and not one of their players were booked. It's like the new rules on refs being more lenient gave Taylor an excuse to screw us over once more. Then you had Salah booting the ball away which should have been an automatic yellow, Taylor ignored that though but was more than happy to give Mendy a yellow for the same thing. He also ignored the many over the top complaints from Liverpool players every time a decision didn't go their way, but as soon as our players complained, he would book them.

The VAR incident was handled terribly. Whether you think it was a handball and red card or not, one thing we can surely agree on is how badly Taylor reviewed the situation. He didn't even look at the video, he looks at a still image from a distance and gives the penalty. It pretty much confirms that he had already made his mind up. Personally, I thought the penalty was fair enough, but if Taylor had actually looked at it properly without bias, he would have seen that the goal had already been denied with James blocking the shot with his leg, the part with his arm came milliseconds after James had already stopped the ball from going into the net with his leg. If Taylor had actually bothered to watch a video instead of just looking at a still image from a distance, he would have seen this and maybe he could have had a proper idea of what happened in that situation.

I won't sign the petition because it's stupid. Even if it was a serious petition, I still wouldnt sign it because they never work, but I do think the club should speak up about this. I think we have every right to voice our complaints about this and even be suspicious of Taylor's officiating. I have always hated that fans, pundits and the media laugh at others for questioning whether certain refs are legit or not. In a sport full of corruption and cheating, why is it so hard to believe that there may be a few bent refs in the game? Clattenburg admitted to it a few years back and Mark Halsey came out and said he was told to lie and say he didn't see certain incidents. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that there are dodgy refs in the game, and it shouldn't be laughed off as fans being bitter because a few decisions didn't go their way.

 

[LongtimerLurker]

For me the point isn't whether he gets banned from our games or not. It's that he is put under the spotlight for his previous questionable decisions. One way or another if he does ref another game for us this season and let's face it he will. He will be under I suspect a bit more pressure to officiate it as fairly and I mean objectively as possible and that's all we are asking.

 

[SydneyChelsea]

Agreed. Calling for a ban/boycott is incredibly Scousish. Let’s just say that:

Anthony Taylor

does not like us

and the feeling Is mutual*

Make of this what what you will:

View attachment 16953

*Haiku of the day

This is really poor "statistical evidence". The information is presented in a way that is designed to mislead people to a prejudice, rather than inform.

• Without hypothesis testing and comparison to other referees, there is no way to show that the alleged difference is due to the influence of the referee or to mere chance.
  
• There's no evidence to say that average points per match is a useful metric, because the points expected from a given match vary due to a number of factors (timing, strength of opposition, injuries etc)
  
• According to the chart Taylor has refereed just 35 out of 204 games (17%) - hardly a definitive sample.
  
• The entire implication is that a referee is the single biggest influence on the average points won/lost per game - common sense tells us that's a dumb assumption.
  

You can't just throw numbers in a spreadsheet and go "look- STATS!".  That isn't evidence, it's speculation.

Moreover in the context of what fans are doing, it's bullying a person doing their job for the sake of us fans feeling better about a game. The above discourse just inflames people and feeds the worst sort of confirmation bias.

It's disgraceful behaviour to feed the weak-minded among us and frankly i'm thankful that Anthony Taylor isn't Black or else it would descend to even worse. 

 

[SydneyChelsea]

For me the point isn't whether he gets banned from our games or not. It's that he is put under the spotlight for his previous questionable decisions. One way or another if he does ref another game for us this season and let's face it he will. He will be under I suspect a bit more pressure to officiate it as fairly and I mean objectively as possible and that's all we are asking.

People make worse decisions under pressure, not better ones. So this whole campaign of yours might actually be counter-intuitive.

What is more likely, when someone is bullied for mistakes while doing their job, is that they end up with depression or attempting suicide.

 

[Deino]

Thing is I think it was incompetence more than bias. He was terrible for both of us. After the red card, any foul committed he let go. 

He could have booked several Liverpool players for rotational tactical fouling, dissent, kicking the ball out of play etc etc but didn't and he also allowed some of our fouls to be glossed over. 

It was more favorable for Liverpool but we had a little of the "luck" too

 

[Upsetter]

This is really poor "statistical evidence". The information is presented in a way that is designed to mislead people to a prejudice, rather than inform.

• Without hypothesis testing and comparison to other referees, there is no way to show that the alleged difference is due to the influence of the referee or to mere chance.
  
• There's no evidence to say that average points per match is a useful metric, because the points expected from a given match vary due to a number of factors (timing, strength of opposition, injuries etc)
  
• According to the chart Taylor has refereed just 35 out of 204 games (17%) - hardly a definitive sample.
  
• The entire implication is that a referee is the single biggest influence on the average points won/lost per game - common sense tells us that's a dumb assumption.
  

You can't just throw numbers in a spreadsheet and go "look- STATS!".  That isn't evidence, it's speculation.

Moreover in the context of what fans are doing, it's bullying a person doing their job for the sake of us fans feeling better about a game. The above discourse just inflames people and feeds the worst sort of confirmation bias.

It's disgraceful behaviour to feed the weak-minded among us and frankly i'm thankful that Anthony Taylor isn't Black or else it would descend to even worse. 

Re the table, like I said - make of it what you will. Found elsewhere, I thought it would make for interesting debate. So thank you for your input. 

Where I would take issue with you is with your final point: “I’m thankful that Anthony Taylor isn’t black”

The colour of Anthony Taylor’s skin is entirely irrelevant. And to suggest that “it would descend to even worse” if he were black is a huge slur on the members of this forum.

 

[Gol15]

For me the point isn't whether he gets banned from our games or not. It's that he is put under the spotlight for his previous questionable decisions. One way or another if he does ref another game for us this season and let's face it he will. He will be under I suspect a bit more pressure to officiate it as fairly and I mean objectively as possible and that's all we are asking.

I don't think he cares about that at all, he probably thinks he's doing a great job. When someone is that much blatantly biased he's aware that he's not in any trouble for it.

Last season I knew that he was waiting for any possible way to give Kovacic the second yellow and he did it. Now he was really eager to send off James that he didn't even care to see the replay he knew what he was going to do already, that whole walk towards the monitor was just a mere formality for him regardless of the fact if it was a red or not, he was giving James the red card no matter what.

Either he's a good ref that should have this gig or not but he represents the authority so nothing will happen, it's like UEFA and FIFA when there is some very shady stuff going on they just protect their refs and say that it's a normality that "accidents" happen.

 

[Valerie]

This is really poor "statistical evidence". The information is presented in a way that is designed to mislead people to a prejudice, rather than inform.

• Without hypothesis testing and comparison to other referees, there is no way to show that the alleged difference is due to the influence of the referee or to mere chance.
  
• There's no evidence to say that average points per match is a useful metric, because the points expected from a given match vary due to a number of factors (timing, strength of opposition, injuries etc)
  
• According to the chart Taylor has refereed just 35 out of 204 games (17%) - hardly a definitive sample.
  
• The entire implication is that a referee is the single biggest influence on the average points won/lost per game - common sense tells us that's a dumb assumption.
  

You can't just throw numbers in a spreadsheet and go "look- STATS!".  That isn't evidence, it's speculation.

Moreover in the context of what fans are doing, it's bullying a person doing their job for the sake of us fans feeling better about a game. The above discourse just inflames people and feeds the worst sort of confirmation bias.

It's disgraceful behaviour to feed the weak-minded among us and frankly i'm thankful that Anthony Taylor isn't Black or else it would descend to even worse. 

People make worse decisions under pressure, not better ones. So this whole campaign of yours might actually be counter-intuitive.

What is more likely, when someone is bullied for mistakes while doing their job, is that they end up with depression or attempting suicide.

Now you're just being sensible and rational 

 

[LongtimerLurker]

People make worse decisions under pressure, not better ones. So this whole campaign of yours might actually be counter-intuitive.

What is more likely, when someone is bullied for mistakes while doing their job, is that they end up with depression or attempting suicide.

Seems a bit extreme to say he may attempt to kill himself. 

Also I'm not sure how you can call it my campaign I just simply made a joke of the situation and brought the petition to the forums attention I didn't even mention anything about signing it or encouraging people to do so.

 

[bisright1]

Ultimately sending James off was the right decision. 

But he handled the situation poorly. 

He needed to show due care, attention and explain his decision to James and Azpi. He needed to actually look at the video. 

Running to the screen, glancing at it and then immediately showing James a red card was what is poor refereeing. 

 

[SydneyChelsea]

Re the table, like I said - make of it what you will. Found elsewhere, I thought it would make for interesting debate. So thank you for your input. 

Where I would take issue with you is with your final point: “I’m thankful that Anthony Taylor isn’t black”

The colour of Anthony Taylor’s skin is entirely irrelevant. And to suggest that “it would descend to even worse” if he were black is a huge slur on the members of this forum.

I'm not referring to members of this forum, who by and large are level-headed and decent people and obviously do not indulge racism. My posts on this matter have all referred to the broader furore on social media. However, I am referring to encouraging people from this forum participating in the above.

I believe that uncritically using misinformation to confirm one's beliefs is where one crosses the line between fair critique to abuse and from a 'campaign' to a witch-hunt. I think we all, regardless of our fervent feelings, need to take a step back and think critically before posting things that may inflame hysteria that leads to online abuse. 

Given recent experiences it is not a long straw to draw a conclusion that the social media response to this (and again - this "petition" and such are largely fuelled via Twitter, Reddit etc) would descend into racism were the target figure Black or such. Yes, Anthony Taylor is not Black and his race is not relevant, but the same pattern of escalation and culture of online abuse is at play here. We have the ability to decide not to contribute to that culture by encouraging it. 

People have rightly pointed out that Liverpool. Sir Alex Ferguson, Mourinho etc have all engaged in this sort of behaviour before. So what? It was wrong then and remains wrong now. The idea of club institutions implicitly condoning this kind of behaviour is awful, and more so when the same figures/clubs apparently take a zero-tolerance stance to racism.

All i'm saying is that before we add fuel to a fire, we need to stop and think what we are contributing to.  The consequence of online abuse is a destroyed life. 

 

[SydneyChelsea]

Seems a bit extreme to say he may attempt to kill himself. 

Also I'm not sure how you can call it my campaign I just simply made a joke of the situation and brought the petition to the forums attention I didn't even mention anything about signing it or encouraging people to do so.

I'm a crisis counsellor in my day job, so, unfortunately no - it's not extreme at all. Don't just take my word for it - read here

Being a public figure does not make you magically immune to mental ill health or crisis.

 

[Upsetter]

I'm not referring to members of this forum, who by and large are level-headed and decent people and obviously do not indulge racism. My posts on this matter have all referred to the broader furore on social media. However, I am referring to encouraging people from this forum participating in the above.

I believe that uncritically using misinformation to confirm one's beliefs is where one crosses the line between fair critique to abuse and from a 'campaign' to a witch-hunt. I think we all, regardless of our fervent feelings, need to take a step back and think critically before posting things that may inflame hysteria that leads to online abuse. 

Given recent experiences it is not a long straw to draw a conclusion that the social media response to this (and again - this "petition" and such are largely fuelled via Twitter, Reddit etc) would descend into racism were the target figure Black or such. Yes, Anthony Taylor is not Black and his race is not relevant, but the same pattern of escalation and culture of online abuse is at play here. We have the ability to decide not to contribute to that culture by encouraging it. 

People have rightly pointed out that Liverpool. Sir Alex Ferguson, Mourinho etc have all engaged in this sort of behaviour before. So what? It was wrong then and remains wrong now. The idea of club institutions implicitly condoning this kind of behaviour is awful, and more so when the same figures/clubs apparently take a zero-tolerance stance to racism.

All i'm saying is that before we add fuel to a fire, we need to stop and think what we are contributing to.  The consequence of online abuse is a destroyed life. 

And you’ve got all that from:

(a) referring to the calling for a ban/boycott [of Anthony Taylor as ‘Scouserish”, clearly implying that I am not in favour of the suggested petition.

(b) a not exactly strict-form hauku which you surely don’t think needs to be taken too seriously?

(c) a chart nicked from another Chelsea site, presented not as evidence of anything, but as a suggestion for discussion.

Methinks you need to lighten up a bit