Christensen wants to stay in Germany

[ShedEnder91]

That's a good clause though, its there because in the past we have sent players out on loan who haven't gotten game time, like Bamford, who we recalled and sent elsewhere.

Absolutely agree but the point is that we plan for loans that fail, but don't put anything in place if they succeed in some cases. 

It's short-sighted but it's also very negative. Even if you say we have to pay £10 million to break the loan that's still more freedom than we apparently have at the moment.

So rather than being able to capitalise on a player over-performing and becoming a viable option this summer, you're left to either work with what you have (which isn't good enough by most people's estimations) or go into the market and probably spend more than that. 

 

[Xfaxtor]

Because it limits our options. Hypothetically speaking, say we decide not to give an ageing defender a contract and our current defenders underperform, whilst the best defender we have suffers a serious injury that might keep him out after the season starts. Meanwhile you have a defender who is performing very well in a competitive league and if he were in the squad tomorrow would probably start (April fools, not under Hiddink he wouldn't). Also the coach you're chasing occasionally favours a system that relies on a ball-playing defender.

Wouldn't you want the option to recall him? 

Now I'll admit that's a little bit facetious and I apologise but it's also the reality of the situation. Here's the real hypothetical.

If you loan a player and he's suddenly imbued with the spirit of Franz Beckenbauer, wouldn't a break clause (even if it's accompanied with a penalty payment) be a good idea?

And now for the extremely annoying/frustrating/stupid part....I've heard his contract does have a break clause.... IF he doesn't get enough minutes. Now I'm unreliable but it's been reported in other contracts and it makes sense but if people don't want to believe me then that's fine and I understand. But here's what it says about how this club views it's loan policy.

It plans eventualities based on the loan failing....it doesn't plan for the loan to succeed.

Chelsea, 2016.

It seems the one thinking short term here is you. Getting him back now because he might get minutes and might be a good option to have NEXT year is thinking short term. He will almost no matter what get more minutes in Germany and staying there for another year is going to be the best for his development. One of the reason Gladbach has shown a lot of faith in him is because they KNOW that he will be there for another season. Thats not preparing for a loan to fail its giving the player the greatest chance to be successfull. Getting back a Christensen after another season in Germany is a much better deal for Chelsea football Club then to have him as an option/back up NeXT year

 

[ShedEnder91]

It seems the one thinking short term here is you. Getting him back now because he might get minutes and might be a good option to have NEXT year is thinking short term. He will almost no matter what get more minutes in Germany and staying there for another year is going to be the best for his development. One of the reason Gladbach has shown a lot of faith in him is because they KNOW that he will be there for another season. Thats not preparing for a loan to fail its giving the player the greatest chance to be successfull. Getting back a Christensen after another season in Germany is a much better deal for Chelsea football Club then to have him as an option/back up NeXT year

I don't think you and I will agree on what short-term means (or the correct way to type it) which is fine.

I think we'll also disagree on how we view the future. For you it's a definite thing you can predict and for me it's something I can only speculate on, but ultimately I just don't know. 

You on the other hand know exactly how his loan will play out next year (please, spoiler that stuff) and you can also say what would happen in the alternate reality where he'd return here, which is some next level Shrodinger's Cat football analysis (on a tangent, whether he's in the box or not is Pato any good?).

See me I can't do that. I can say that we probably need a defender, that we probably won't have the buying power we might otherwise have, that Christensen probably fits the type of defender Conte would like to bring in and that Christensen is possibly our third best centreback come July.

Other than that it's all speculation and that's where you have me at a disadvantage. What I think we can all agree on is that when planning long-term, next to security the most valuable thing you could ask for is flexibility. The deal we mapped out last summer doesn't allow for that and you're fine with that. But I'm struggling to think of a single other business where that is acceptable.

But here's a thought. What if you're wrong? What if Conte sees something in him that he likes and shows faith in him, possibly like he did with a 19 year old Paul Pogba? This is a player who had 7 professional appearances before that yet Conte gave him 37 in his first season at Juventus. Isn't that a possibility?

 

[Xfaxtor]

LoL dont be a dick. Off course I can be wrong, this is just my opinion. But the chances that he gets more minutes in Germany then here are just so high that pretending he want is either extremely naive or just wishfull thinking. And right now at the age he is at, the best thing for him is to play. He is, barring major injury, guaranteed that at Gladbach. Here, not so much. Off course nobody knows what happens, but Ill choose to compliment the Club on a well crafted loan deal that has given a young player lots of much needed experience and playing time instead of complaining, because there might be a minute chance that he could be the defensive version of Pogba next season.

While were at it, my hopes for next season are that Solanke comes back to be the next Drogba, Ake takes major strides under the wings of Conte to become our new left back for the next ten years and that Katey Perry decides she wants me to be her chamber boy. I mean it all COULD happen right?

Its whatever mate, like you said we wont disagree on this, to me you just comes of a ssomeone looking to bash the Club for everything and everything

 

[ShedEnder91]

LoL dont be a dick. Off course I can be wrong, this is just my opinion. But the chances that he gets more minutes in Germany then here are just so high that pretending he want is either extremely naive or just wishfull thinking. And right now at the age he is at, the best thing for him is to play. He is, barring major injury, guaranteed that at Gladbach. Here, not so much. Off course nobody knows what happens, but Ill choose to compliment the Club on a well crafted loan deal that has given a young player lots of much needed experience and playing time instead of complaining, because there might be a minute chance that he could be the defensive version of Pogba next season.

How many more minutes? Is the quality of those minutes or the chance to play under Conte in the Premier League not a consideration? Yes the club should be complimented on the progress he's shown and I think we're all doing that, but some of us looking towards the future now. That includes his future and our future as a club.

While were at it, my hopes for next season are that Solanke comes back to be the next Drogba, Ake takes major strides under the wings of Conte to become our new left back for the next ten years and that Katey Perry decides she wants me to be her chamber boy. I mean it all COULD happen right?

Solanke not's really that type of striker. He's more comparable to a Costa, whereas someone like Abraham is much more.....wait a minute. I see what you're doing, it's fun isn't it?

My advice, start by spelling Katy's name right.

Its whatever mate, like you said we wont disagree on this, to me you just comes of a ssomeone looking to bash the Club for everything and everything

I bash them for a lot and there's a lot of evidence to suggest they need bashing. I think where we are at the moment is the result of years of short-term planning papered over by Roman's chequebook and that as the buying power of other clubs becomes greater, we stand a chance of falling behind.

We had a massive headstart on other teams because of Roman yet rather than using those resources to build for the future, we became engrossed with the 'NOW' and the result of that is where we are now.

If you want my brutally honest opinion, we've become the 'rich man's plaything' that other fans always taunted us for being because we're at the mercy of the whim of a billionaire who has never actually spoken to us. He's run us recklessly, he tried to engineer a CPO vote to get the Freehold rights of this club and I think rather than this being a blip, it has the danger of being the beginning of something much worse and it's exactly things like the Christensen deal that have seen us arrive here.

Granted that probably doesn't change your opinion of me and it's a little bit off-topic, but I've been supporting this club for decades and I'm very worried about what it's becoming. This story about Christensen isn't in isolation either because there's a lot of talk about Ola Aina seeing his future away from this club. We have to be careful we don't become a club that young players avoid because they have to be our future.

 

[big blue]

I think it's better for there to be no break clause tbh. I think it gives the loaning club more incentive to play them, as 2 years is a long time to be paying someone's wages for, with no possible transfer money coming in at the end.

Unless he is going to be 1st choice, he would be best staying where he is in all honesty.

 

[JJP]

I hope he stays abroad. With another full season under his belt playing as a starting CB all season will do him wonders, and when he comes back at the end of next season he will slot straight into our first team hopefully, alongside Zouma.

 

[Sexyfootball]

Ugh .. why would anyone want Russell Brand's and Orlando Bloom's sloppy seconds LOL

You're a braver man than me xfactor !

The issue for me is the fact that Christensen is more likely to get playing time in Gemany than he is here. THAT is the problem for me ... why is it so hard for a young player to be given a chance at CFC ?

I don't buy the arguments about "not Chelsea quality yet"  ... Christensen is proven in the Champions League, and, as Tottenham have shown, young players are plenty good enough for the PL and to compete for the title ...

 

[All Barco no bite]

I'm all for Christensen staying in Germany for another season but it has made me question the club. We only give players an opportunity if we've paid quite a bit of money for them.

If Zouma had been at our academy since he was 8 do you think he would have been given a look in by now? The same with Miazga, if he was in our academy would he have warranted a place on our bench before now? We have Clarke-Salter who i believe is better than Miazga but won't be given a look in because the club hasn't paid 3.5mio for him.

We had Lewis Baker, we then went out and bought Van Ginkel who was such a similar player and just walked onto our bench before the injury. Did he deserve it more than Baker or did his price tag get him there?

I'm not saying he would have made it at Chelsea but i remember Kalas having a great game against Liverpool back in 2013/14? and then he's never been seen of since. 

We need to give these players a few chances in cup games before we ship them out to see if they can do a job for us before going and making headlines elsewhere. 

I think if a player as talented as Ola Aina leaves when we've had an abysmal Ivanovic at RB most season it really is troubling times for Chelsea. 

 

[Stim]

The issue for me is the fact that Christensen is more likely to get playing time in Gemany than he is here. THAT is the problem for me ... why is it so hard for a young player to be given a chance at CFC ?

Well we have been developing Zouma nicely, and there is no chance we play 2 youth together without an experienced head in there like JT (God I hope he gets a new contract)

If Zouma gets fit again quickly then it'll be better for him in Germany than stunting both him and zouma by having to rotate them. Then in a years time he and zouma could be experienced enough to partner each other.

 

[lesblues]

Because he was lying? Actually that's unfair because we've all had new jobs where the idealism of 'what could be' is all we think about.

And then the boss starts giving you deadlines, making you work weekends (Roman's a bugger for that apparently) and it all becomes about meeting your monthly targets.

Also just to correct you, I didn't say we were in a worse state. I said we were in a worse position than when he bought us in a number of ways, not all ways. When he bought us we had debts, we had nowhere near the commercial impact and we had an emptier trophy cabinet. He's had positives and negatives but our current position is undeniably worse in a number of ways.

Am I to assume in context you meant Roman is a task master and he demanded the unrealistic or Jose lied?. Our current position is temporary shouldn't be a yardstick to judge Roman's efforts so far,no?

 

[PedroMendez]

Absolutely agree but the point is that we plan for loans that fail, but don't put anything in place if they succeed in some cases. 

It's short-sighted but it's also very negative. Even if you say we have to pay £10 million to break the loan that's still more freedom than we apparently have at the moment.

So rather than being able to capitalise on a player over-performing and becoming a viable option this summer, you're left to either work with what you have (which isn't good enough by most people's estimations) or go into the market and probably spend more than that. 

You do realise that we can mutually terminate any contract, so this clause you are suggesting is effectively already in place if we offered Gladbach £10m they would definitely agree to terminate as for that kind of money why wouldn't you, you could easily buy a replacement. So what is the point to this clause you are talking about other than setting a fee for which mutual termination would be agreed upon which if we had to spend more than £1-2m for them to agree on mutual termination I would be flabbergasted. 

 

[ShedEnder91]

Well we have been developing Zouma nicely, and there is no chance we play 2 youth together without an experienced head in there like JT (God I hope he gets a new contract)

If Zouma gets fit again quickly then it'll be better for him in Germany than stunting both him and zouma by having to rotate them. Then in a years time he and zouma could be experienced enough to partner each other.

Someone else mentioned this as well, but alongside whom are you placing Zouma for a season before dropping him for Christensen? Cahill or Ivanovic, or are you buying someone else?

You do realise that we can mutually terminate any contract, so this clause you are suggesting is effectively already in place if we offered Gladbach £10m they would definitely agree to terminate as for that kind of money why wouldn't you, you could easily buy a replacement. So what is the point to this clause you are talking about other than setting a fee for which mutual termination would be agreed upon which if we had to spend more than £1-2m for them to agree on mutual termination I would be flabbergasted. 

That's based on the assumption that they would say yes, and who is this replacement they could get for £10 million? Shouldn't we be trying to buy this guy too?

The point of agreeing a set-fee is self-evident. You have a fee that can't be refused or negotiated up. It provides certainty.

 

[Xfaxtor]

Double post

 

[Stim]

Someone else mentioned this as well, but alongside whom are you placing Zouma for a season before dropping him for Christensen? Cahill or Ivanovic, or are you buying someone else?

If we are too stubborn to keep JT it'd be Cahill most likely.

 

[PedroMendez]

That's based on the assumption that they would say yes, and who is this replacement they could get for £10 million? Shouldn't we be trying to buy this guy too?

The point of agreeing a set-fee is self-evident. You have a fee that can't be refused or negotiated up. It provides certainty.

Why wouldn't they say yes, is keeping a loanee (who isn't really performing that much better, if at all better, than a couple of their other CBs) for another season that vital to them, that they would turn down 10 million. I don't think so, maybe just for the sh*ts a giggles then.

Djilobodji seems pretty good at Bundesliga level, maybe they could sign him, I am sure there is plenty of other defenders of that quality about at that sort of price. Christensen is still only 19 and still has plenty of developing to do so finding a defender of a similar quality to him isn't going to be nearly as hard as you are making out.

Yes maybe setting the fee at £1m or something like that at the beginning of the loan does give us a little more financial control but do we want the club/manager of Gladbach to have this in the back of their mind when they are setting out their development and integration plans for the player, personally I would prefer that they feel comfortable and plan it as if they have got the player for 2 years with the view of utilising this to the maximum. Even if that means we lose out on a couple of million, as player development is far more important and far more fruitful. With the players values increasing far more than the money we could ever lose out on.

Also if lets say we did choose to pay the hypothetical and probably inflated £4-5m(which would stand as 1/4 of a hyped up value, seeing as it would be for 1 season out of his 4 year contract) to get Gladbach to agree for mutual termination, realistically this high a value wouldn't be needed, this would provide further incentives for other clubs to try and develop our players in a similar manner with the potential to reap significant financial reward, for developing a player to the extent that we would consider recalling them. Surely this counts as a win win scenario for the club. as either way we have created a first team player on the cheap or they are given time space and stability to develop.

 

[rtwelch]

Hopefully Conte is already having his mates go and keep tabs on players like Christensen.

 

[Maidstone Blue]

Imo I think it's an absolutely ridiculous situation for our club to have 31 decent young players out on loan, and it's looking like none of them are ever going to be given a proper chance in our 1st team, which you would have thought at least some of them should have been recalled in the last January transfer window, especially with the way our 1st team has been in decline this past year, by loosing its spine, reliable players like Peter Cech being sidelined and the most ludicrous point of having no home grown young player from the academy making it into the the 1st team since John Terry did it more than 10 years ago.

Our club needs to change.

 

[strong centreback]

The pato deal sums up our clubs way of thinking nicely I feel, why trust a youth player probably good enough for the backup role when you can buy/loan a shiny new player instead.

Falcao will have cost us 7m in wages by the time he leaves, pato about 750k, bamford no more than 1.5m all season plus we are getting to find out if he can cut it at our level, money saved and upside, we need to stop wasting money when its quite obvious we have a player already at the club who can cover that role, ake and rahman is another example, one has looked good in our league and the other was bought for 13/14m and looks out of his depth and you know full well it will be rahman that gets persisted with and ake will be sold the mind boggles.

 

[TheChelseaBlues]

The pato deal sums up our clubs way of thinking nicely I feel, why trust a youth player probably good enough for the backup role when you can buy/loan a shiny new player instead.

Falcao will have cost us 7m in wages by the time he leaves, pato about 750k, bamford no more than 1.5m all season plus we are getting to find out if he can cut it at our level, money saved and upside, we need to stop wasting money when its quite obvious we have a player already at the club who can cover that role, ake and rahman is another example, one has looked good in our league and the other was bought for 13/14m and looks out of his depth and you know full well it will be rahman that gets persisted with and ake will be sold the mind boggles.

Shiny and new are probably the two nicest words anyone on here has used to describe Pato in a while