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Giving Loanees and Youth a Chance

Trueblue76 said:
I also don't think they are ready for the rigours of the premier league, maybe the odd cup game, that's why we send the older ones out on loan to get them that experience, no way would we be chucking 17/18 year olds in at the deep end, if we would then the older ones like Ampadu, Anjorin, Gallagher, Gilmour and Broja, Lawrence, Maatsen, Cummings, Baxter, Sterling would of stayed and not gone on loan...
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Its the odd games we needed them for, but instead RLC or Saul played there.

 
I went through a period when I was obsessed with youth players getting into the first team squad. When we had that unbelievable run in the FA Youth cup where we dominated for a number of years, thought a few of those youngsters at least deserved a crack. But it hasn't been until more recently that we have seen youngsters get a chance and that is really only down to the transfer ban. Sure Lamps deserves credit for showing faith in the likes of Mount, but if there had been no transfer embargo, I doubt it would have happened (and Lamps wouldn't have got the gig in the first place).

So I won't criticise TT as we are exactly where we have always been. Pressure on the coach to compete and win trophies every season and it is hard to do that whilst experimenting with youth players. Like others, I would still like to see a few more integrated and I would also prefer to see a young hungry player come off the bench to try and make an impact, like a Gimour or Broja, rather than a Jorginho or Saul. But I think unless they can really prove themselves; like Gallagher has at Palace, we are unlikely to see too many over the coming seasons and I don't blame TT for that who has no doubt been told he HAS to close that gap on City & Liverpool.

 
I've heard Boehly say he wants to get the balance right between bringing academy players through as well as having top talent.

He admits it is a balance to works towards.

 
Besides Broja, Colwill, Gallagher & Gilmour, the ones I really want to see given a chance in pre-season are Sterling and Maatsen for obvious reasons of having some depth and pace in the wingback positions. Even then I think it's a bit of stretch to have the 6 of them staying next season. 

All the others can go on another loan (maybe Ampadu getting yet another closer look). Emerson is a case of "overrated by absence" as he offers absolutely nothing of note at both ends, should definitely sell while we can still get some fee. 

 
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Trueblue76 said:
We could possibly have up to 11 so called first team players leave in the close season, which of the current Loanees and Youth players should we give a chance to and where should we concentrate funds on strengthening?

Sterling

Emerson

Maatsen

Lewis Hall

Ampadu

Colwill

Gilmour

Gallagher

Anjorin

Vale

Broja

Are any of these good enough to save some money in the transfer market to concentrate funds where they are really needed?
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The only ones I would consider right now are Colwill, Gallagher and Broja. I would prefer another loan deal for Colwill, but with 2 CB's going and 1 not being good enough (Sarr) we will need to bring Colwill back. Gallagher has been good at Crystal Palace, he has to be bought back to challenge for a spot in our first team. Broja is patchy, but we have seen enough to suggest he can be pretty good.

I don't think Hall or Vale are ready yet, Vale would be good to send out on loan though.

Gilmour has been a flop at Norwich, I don't think he has progressed a single bit there, if anything, he's gotten worse. I'm not sure what is going to happen to him, but he'll probably get loaned out again. Hopefully it will be to a club that suits him.

Anjorin, Maatsen, Sterling I haven't seen much of them so can't say either way.

Ampadu and Emerson should be sold. Neither are good enough.

 
dkw said:
Harvey Vale, Soonsup-Bell, Lewis Hall, Xavier Simons. All other than Webster played in the EFL cup game or Fa cup game, all looked like they could handle the step up. All haven't played a single minute in the first team since, other than Vale who got 5 minutes in a game. All this while everyone agrees our first team are knackered and desperately in need of rest, which has led to a lot of injuries to them, playing out of form players and others out of position.

So empirical evidence shows Tuchel is unwilling to play youth players in a season where we desperately needed them, therefore its pretty easy to see he wont play them next season.
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It isnt even remotely comparible. All the players listed have cut their teeth in adults football already. They arent rookies from the youth system. 

Chalobah is probably the most similar example.

To say Tuchel wouldnt play Gallagher who is a full england international, because he hasnt played Webster or Vale is mind boggling. 

 
big blue said:
It isnt even remotely comparible. All the players listed have cut their teeth in adults football already. They arent rookies from the youth system. 

Chalobah is probably the most similar example.

To say Tuchel wouldnt play Gallagher who is a full england international, because he hasnt played Webster or Vale is mind boggling. 
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Some people like to think the average performance RLC or Saul gives when is as bad as it gets. 

Throw Vale in to a game now and there's a good chance it's a lot worse. And it will damage the player as well 

Tuchel sees these kids a lot, they train with the first team. If someone's not ready, the worst thing to do is chuck them in a PL game that matters because we're light on numbers. 

 
It depends whether we are really serious about challenging next season or whether it will be another transitional season...there is a case that Gallagher, Broja and Colwill will progress, generally speaking though most Chelsea youth players who have broken through (not been many) are past their 21st Birthday and have been on several loans.... With the exception of CHO who was considered a generational talent as someone mentioned before, that's why really I can only see Gallagher and Sterling being integrated...Maybe Colwill and Broja as well even though they are younger..the rest I can see going on loan again or being sold with clauses inserted in their contracts...Vale is a tricky one as his contract is up this summer, hopefully he will be renewed though.

 
bisright1 said:
.

Throw Vale in to a game now and there's a good chance it's a lot worse. And it will damage the player as well . 
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Or they come in and do a good job, better than the central midfielders he played instead and go on to become useful 1st team or squad players. But we will never know now, the likelihood is we will now bring in players for those positions and we will lose the likes of Vale, Hall, Soonsup Bell etc same as we have Guehere, Livaremento, Abraham, Tomori etc

Maybe Tuchel will change next season, I really hope so. But on the evidence we have from his time here it doesn't look likely.

And you can't use Mount, James as evidence to the contrary, they were established 1st team players...amazingly that's because they were given game time and were allowed to prove themselves more than capable of playing at that level.

 
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dkw said:
Or they come in and do a good job, better than the central midfielders he played instead and go on to become useful 1st team or squad players. But we will never know now, the likelihood is we will now bring in players for those positions and we will lose the likes of Vale, Hall, Soonsup Bell etc same as we have Guehere, Livaremento, Abraham, Tomori etc

Maybe Tuchel will change next season, I really hope so. But on the evidence we have from his time here it doesn't look likely.

And you can't use Mount, James as evidence to the contrary, they were established 1st team players...amazingly that's because they were given game time and were allowed to prove themselves more than capable of playing at that level.
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What about chalobah? No one's using mount or James as an example. 

What about Gallagher, he's been pretty clear he wants to use him next year. 

 
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dkw said:
Or they come in and do a good job, better than the central midfielders he played instead and go on to become useful 1st team or squad players. But we will never know now, the likelihood is we will now bring in players for those positions and we will lose the likes of Vale, Hall, Soonsup Bell etc same as we have Guehere, Livaremento, Abraham, Tomori etc

Maybe Tuchel will change next season, I really hope so. But on the evidence we have from his time here it doesn't look likely.

And you can't use Mount, James as evidence to the contrary, they were established 1st team players...amazingly that's because they were given game time and were allowed to prove themselves more than capable of playing at that level.
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Mount and James became established first team players AFTER they proved themselves with successful loans in the Championship, and also in Holland at Vitesse in Mount's case.

Vale, Hall, Soonsup-Bell etc aren't remotely on the same page of their career trajectory yet ... 

What has changed, in the cases of Guehi, Livramento, Lamptey is their propensity to wait their chance. All three opted to jump ship before that moment arrived. A big shame. Others who similarly jumped ship have struggled to establish themselves at their new clubs of course. Lewis Bate was one, and he literally made his first start with Leeds only last week against us, and looked well off the pace I thought. I think if Guehi had waited a year, he'd be in the frame to be one of our 22/23 roster of centre backs, but this season (with Rudiger, Christensen, Silva and no takers for a loan for the £120K a week Sarr, who therefore had to stay, and had to be used to justify what we are paying him) it was undoubtedly a case of one space for a Cobhamite, and Tuchel opted for Chalobah.

No idea why Tomori was frozen out by Lampard. I thought he was one of our better centre backs that season, in particular when playing alongside Zouma. Abraham splits opinion as to whether he is good enough. I can understand why TT let him go, when the club were giving him Lukaku. Certainly wasn't room for both of them, when we also had Havertz.

 
Isn’t there a limit to the number of Over-21s we can loan out from next season? Should make things very interesting.

 
If by chance 3rd place is settled before the last game then maybe we will see some youth get a chance against Watford.

 
Sconnie Blue said:
Maatsen apparently turned down a move to Feyenoord because he feels he can make the team. 
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Good man. I really hope he and Sterling are given this season to show they either can or cannot be good backups to Chilwell and James. 

Hopefully we can shift along Alonso and Emerson.

Without going full youth development on you all I think the following is sensible depth wise this season:

GK: Mendy-Kepa-Marcus B

RB/RWB: James-D. Sterling

LB/LWB: Chilwell-Maatsen

CBS (back 4 or 3): De Ligt- Chalobah

Silva-Ake-Colwill

CDM:  New signing - Jorginho

CMs: Gallagher - Kante,  Kovacic-Gilmour

ACM: Mount-Havertz

WF: CHO-Pulisic-Werner-Ziyech or new signing

CF: Broja-Havertz-Werner

 
axman2526 said:
Good man. I really hope he and Sterling are given this season to show they either can or cannot be good backups to Chilwell and James. 

Hopefully we can shift along Alonso and Emerson.

Without going full youth development on you all I think the following is sensible depth wise this season:

GK: Mendy-Kepa-Marcus B

RB/RWB: James-D. Sterling

LB/LWB: Chilwell-Maatsen

CBS (back 4 or 3): De Ligt- Chalobah

Silva-Ake-Colwill

CDM:  New signing - Jorginho

CMs: Gallagher - Kante,  Kovacic-Gilmour

ACM: Mount-Havertz

WF: CHO-Pulisic-Werner-Ziyech or new signing

CF: Broja-Havertz-Werner
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From what I have seen of him, Maatsen would provide very capable backup for Chilwell when needed. I have also been impressed with Dujon Sterling when I watched him play. Even if we bring in 1 or 2 CB's this window they may need some time to settle into the squad, so it will be good to have reliable options from the current squad that are ready to start the season at least.

 
forbzy said:
From what I have seen of him, Maatsen would provide very capable backup for Chilwell when needed. I have also been impressed with Dujon Sterling when I watched him play. Even if we bring in 1 or 2 CB's this window they may need some time to settle into the squad, so it will be good to have reliable options from the current squad that are ready to start the season at least.
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Exactly.

We also have a budget, this we know all too well. So don't waste it on backup wingbacks if we have 2 that deserve a chance and are free, spend thar extra money getting De Ligt, Sterling, Ake etc if these are your top must have targets.

Is very easy on TT part. Speak to Todd, tell him you don't need six but you really badly want those 3 or 4 so spend extra on them please and you will solve other problems with loan and youth players.

 
Loanees & Youth that made the cut for the USA squad : Batshuayi, Emerson, Gallagher, Ampadu, Colwill, Gilmour, Anjorin, Vale, Sharman-Lowe, (Broja tbc)

Didn't make the cut:  Maatsen, Sterling, Rahman, Miazga, Lawrence, Castillo, Hall, Webster, Burstow (plus any other youth that were training with TT at Cobham last week)

 
Sexyfootball said:
Loanees & Youth that made the cut for the USA squad : Batshuayi, Emerson, Gallagher, Ampadu, Colwill, Gilmour, Anjorin, Vale, Sharman-Lowe, (Broja tbc)

Didn't make the cut:  Maatsen, Sterling, Rahman, Miazga, Lawrence, Castillo, Hall, Webster, Burstow (plus any other youth that were training with TT at Cobham last week)
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Latest iv'e heard is Sterling and Broja will travel later.

 
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