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Making a Murderer Post Chat

bluedave said:
It's possible that he that killed her but the police put the car there, slightly hidden but not so well hidden that people won't find it, to incriminate him.

It's possible that he killed her elsewhere but the police put the bullet there to incriminate him.

I suspect the police did not anticipate that their "investigation" would be ripped apart on TV in front of millions of people, hence the sloppiness of much of the (apparent) fix-up.

By the way, I think the trial was a farce and he shouldn't be in prison for that reason, but whether or not he did it we can only speculate.
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Yes I agree, but maybe I should have used the word 'probable' instead of 'possible'.

That reminds me of the bit when iirc Steve's defence team were trying to get the police officer who was meant to be keeping an eye on the Manitowoc police when they searched Steve's home/garage, and they asked him if it was possible that the officers searching had the opportunity to plant the evidence, he replied yes as he knew he wasn't watching all of the officers all of the time. Then when the DA questioned the same officer, he started saying of course it was possible for the search officers to have the opportunity, but it was also possible aliens planted it.

Possible yes, but not probable is it ?

 
Back on topic.

So many holes in the prosecutions case.

Blaine Dassey testified that his brother, Bobby, was asleep when he got home from school around 3:40 p.m., contradicting Bobby’s testimony that he got up at 2:30 p.m. and saw Teresa headed toward Steven’s trailer.

Dean Strang mentioned that there were little drops off deer blood all over Avery’s garage, essentially debunking the theory that they could have cleaned all the blood evidence out of the garage, since had they cleaned it that thoroughly, there wouldn’t have been any deer blood.

On the leg irons/handcuffs from Avery’s house: They tested those for DNA and found a mixture of DNA from two or more people. They confirmed Avery to be a source of one of the matches. Most importantly, they excluded Teresa’s DNA as a match.

 
s-KEN-KRATZ-large.jpg


Kratz also stated in the subpoena that he wanted every recorded conversation they had with Avery, not realising that - as every phone call out of prison is recorded by the state - he already had access to their material.

“So our argument in the motion to quash was [that] the state does not need these materials from us because the state already has these materials. When considering that, it's interesting because then you think, 'Okay, what's really the real reason behind the subpoena?’

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/making-a-murderer-steven-averys-prosecutors-tried-to-stop-the-netflix-show-being-made-a6807281.html

 
coco said:
If like me you love watching these kind of documentaries, try these that I have seen and can recommend as they are all quiet shocking.

The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst     http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4299972/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

Capturing the Friedmans    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0342172/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

The Overnighters       http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3263996/
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I've seen The Jinx and it is excellent.

Something else that I've seen recommended in quite a few places is The Staircase. I've not seen it yet myself but it's definitely on my to-watch list.

 
Why did the brother and ex access the voicemail and call records?

That is suspicious

 
Zola said:
Why did the brother and ex access the voicemail and call records?

That is suspicious
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Why did the ex have a crap memory when faced with straight forward questions in court ?

He could not remember what time of day he last saw his ex girlfriend on the sunday, morning, afternoon or evening. But he could remember that he did see her that day as he was dropping something off for her house mate Scott Bloedorn, but he couldn't remember what he was dropping off either.

The only question he was very quick at answering was when he was asked if their was any romance between house mates Scott Bloedorn and Teresa Halbach, when he swiftly said "no", although how he could be completely sure of this i fail to see, as he was not living at the house, and was not seeing Teresa at the time. 

 
coco said:
The only question he was very quick at answering was when he was asked if their was any romance between house mates Scott Bloedorn and Teresa Halbach, when he swiftly said "no", although how he could be completely sure of this i fail to see, as he was not living at the house, and was not seeing Teresa at the time. 
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Wasn't he pals with Scott? I might be remembering that wrong, but if he was then presumably he'd have known (or thought he did) if there was anything going on between Scott and Teresa.

He still came across very badly though and didn't seem entirely honest/open. If Steven didn't do it then my money's on him. 

 
bluedave said:
Wasn't he pals with Scott? I might be remembering that wrong, but if he was then presumably he'd have known (or thought he did) if there was anything going on between Scott and Teresa.
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Yes they were all friends, but Ryan and Scott became friends through Teresa iirc.

In court Ryan was always answering questions like "If I recall" or "As far as I know" or other non-committed answers. Hardly ever did he just say yes or no.

So when asked if Scott and Teresa were romantically involved it was a bit surprising when he came straight out with a NO, rather than, "As far as I was aware no".

 
coco said:
If like me you love watching these kind of documentaries, try these that I have seen and can recommend as they are all quiet shocking.

The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4299972/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

Capturing the Friedmans http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0342172/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/?ref_=tt_rec_tt

The Overnighters http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3263996/
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Should add West of Memphis onto that list, the follow up to paradise lost
 
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coco said:
Yes they were all friends, but Ryan and Scott became friends through Teresa iirc.
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To be fair, you've just smashed all 10 in a row, so chances are that you recall correctly  :wink:

Agree about him being a suspect, and like the brother, didn't come across particularly sad during any of it. My other suspicion with him is that, it's a bit odd that the ex-boyfriend is leading the search efforts. Maybe trying to hard to show he wasn't involved.

My longshot 'theory' is that the police (Lenk in particular) had something to do with the murder. The timing with Avery's settlement etc was just too convenient. If there's anything that would stop a bloke killing someone, it's knowing that you've got a truckload of money coming you're way from the state fairly soon. Maybe they got Agent 47 involved?  :laugh2:

 
‘Making a Murderer’: Steven Avery’s Ex-Fiancée Claims ‘Behind Closed Doors, He’s a Monster’

Some big claims there. It could be that she's just lashing out out of spite or to get revenge for something, or maybe she's telling the truth. I did find it a bit weird the way she took the opportunity to completely wash her hands of him, blaming it on police harassment. She definitely didn't share Steven's commitment to the relationship. It's an interesting read anyway, and correlates with a lot of what I've been hearing about Avery being quite a nasty piece of work.

“Capable of murder?” led Grace’s interviewer.

 
“Yeah,” Stachowski replied, nodding. “Hurting people. He told me once, excuse my language, ‘All bitches owe him’ because of the one that sent him to prison the first time. We all owed him.”
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Despite me thinking he is guilty for whatever part of her murder I think sitting in US prison cell for 18 years would turn some folk into a bit of a resentful person..especially towards certain woman if it was on a false rape charge.

 
bluedave said:
‘Making a Murderer’: Steven Avery’s Ex-Fiancée Claims ‘Behind Closed Doors, He’s a Monster’

Some big claims there. It could be that she's just lashing out out of spite or to get revenge for something, or maybe she's telling the truth. I did find it a bit weird the way she took the opportunity to completely wash her hands of him, blaming it on police harassment. She definitely didn't share Steven's commitment to the relationship. It's an interesting read anyway, and correlates with a lot of what I've been hearing about Avery being quite a nasty piece of work.
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IIRC- She was hounded by the law, but because of her own alcoholism, she wasn't meant to be drinking and was on probation. She was ordered to leave the area and get a job or go back to prison. And why did she not reveal any of this during the hours and hours of filming the documentary ?

Now, Stachowski says she lied about the phone calls,
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When you get to ^ that bit, you have to stop reading what she says, she cannot be trusted.

 
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coco said:
IIRC- She was hounded by the law, but because of her own alcoholism, she wasn't meant to be drinking and was on probation. She was ordered to leave the area and get a job or go back to prison. And why did she not reveal any of this during the hours and hours of filming the documentary ?

"Now, Stachowski says she lied about the phone calls,"

When you get to ^ that bit, you have to stop reading what she says, she cannot be trusted.
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Well if you keep reading for a couple more lines she explains why she felt she had to lie (and also why she did not reveal anything during her participation in the documentary):

She now claims that she pretended to be supportive of Avery because she was afraid he would hurt her otherwise. “He told me how to act. He said smile, be happy. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want to get hurt.”
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I probably find it more believable that she might have been bullied into supporting Avery's story rather than she just decided to make up a load of very serious allegations during an interview with a reporter (for what motivation? attention?).

 
bluedave said:
Well if you keep reading for a couple more lines she explains why she felt she had to lie (and also why she did not reveal anything during her participation in the documentary):

I probably find it more believable that she might have been bullied into supporting Avery's story rather than she just decided to make up a load of very serious allegations during an interview with a reporter (for what motivation? attention?).
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But how can he hurt her when he's inside prison ? And if she was that scared of him, why didn't she speak out and make sure he stayed in prison, why give him an alibi if it means he could be released to hurt you ? Doesn't make sense. Why lie ?

I can understand why Brendan lied like he did, he just wanted to go back to school the next day after admitting being part of a gruesome murder.

 
coco said:
But how can he hurt her when he's inside prison ? And if she was that scared of him, why didn't she speak out and make sure he stayed in prison, why give him an alibi if it means he could be released to hurt you ? Doesn't make sense. Why lie ?

I can understand why Brendan lied like he did, he just wanted to go back to school the next day after admitting being part of a gruesome murder.
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I'm pretty sure she left him quite early on in the investigation, so she wouldn't have had much of an idea how long he was gong to stay in prison. She didn't come across as the sharpest tool in the box anyway. Maybe she was afraid of the family as well. You hear about similar stories all the time, abused women sticking by/supporting their abuser even though the only sensible thing to do is to get rid. I don't understand this either because I've never been in that position and I'm no psychologist; it could be out of fear, or maybe even some misplaced feeling of loyalty that diminishes with time.

The way I see it, she either lied then or she's lying now, and it's easier for me to understand why she would have lied back then. 

 
Maybe your'e right, maybe she did lie, but not for the reason of helping Steve the murderer, but more for helping Steve the innocent soon to be millionaire. She could not know for sure if Steven did or did not kill Teresa, but she did know about the money, the £36m payout coming his way, so she probably had her head turned by that amount of dollar, and she obviously knew Steve was into her like a puppy dog, with him not being the brightest or easiest person on the eye, you would have to wonder what the attraction was for her if not the multi million dollar payout. She probably finished with him after he had the $450k payout when he was on remand, the same money he used for his own defence.

Yeah I'm now convinced she was in it for the money, I mean look at him.

 
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