Nottingham Forest v Chelsea (PL) Sun 1st Jan 2023 16:30 GMT

[Deino]

I'm sorry but the recency bias here is too strong. TT had us top of the table in his first full season after a difficult fixture list to start the season. This off the back of a UCL win. It only really started to come apart when he lost nearly half his champions league winning spine to injuries (Kova, Kante, James and  Chilwell).

Not to mention the war, sanctions, change in ownership and divorce. Normally employees in almost any field of work don't deal with this level of instability. Most definitely the worst possible situation for him personally. Yet he still took us to a top 4 finish, 2 domestic cup finals and 2 trophies won including the final piece of silverwear for the club to complete the all time set. Add in the fact he out coached all his opponents in cup matches (Mendy and Co let him down from the ucl). 

Tuchel doesn't have a cult following, he has fans that he rightly earned through his achievements. To say he isn't elite is disrespectful of what he achieved at this club in such a short period of time. He took this club to a level which allowed them to compete with any club across 90 minutes. Including Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool the two teams we seek to be like.

He's the first coach to go to back to back UCL finals with two different teams. There's a reason why that hadn't be done before. It's not easy....you have to be at the top of your game as a coach.

The fact remains the same he wasn't sacked for sporting performance, but for a lack of compatability with the new owners. TT is far from perfect, he's still the best coach on the market right now. 

The difference between TT and Potter is our forwards couldn't finish under TT, but at least we made chances. Under Potter we create virtually nothing. Now perhaps people see just how important Timo was to our playstyle. Even without scoring, he was stretching the play running in behind and creating space for others.

Our biggest mistake imo was signing Lukaku in hindsight had we backed the system built in that ucl win and signed a player more like Sterling over Lukaku perhaps we wouldn't have regressed as bad as we did. The midfield will always remain an issue, yet they can't be completely blamed this a group of players that have made top 4 for the past 4 seasons, contested multiple cup finals and are the current reigning world champions. 

Moving back to the point of my post, Thomas Tuchel is an elite coach and recency bias has imo clouded your judgement.

I wanted to type out the same thing but it's going to be way too repetitive at this point. 

I have no idea why we are still bringing up the topic of past coaches when the problem is our current coach isn't good enough yet. 

Say we all agree the players are the problem, does Potter immediately gets no accountability or responsibility even if it meant we get relegated? We are not even at the halfway point of the season. 

 

[Fatty_Speeding]

During commentary that tw@t Tyler said that in 42 games the two of them have actually played on the pitch at the same time is 2 matches.

Horrific statistic, but doesn't surprise me considering the long-term injuries they both seem to keep on picking up.

 

[WhiteWall]

I'm sorry but the recency bias here is too strong. TT had us top of the table in his first full season after a difficult fixture list to start the season. This off the back of a UCL win. It only really started to come apart when he lost nearly half his champions league winning spine to injuries (Kova, Kante, James and  Chilwell).

Not to mention the war, sanctions, change in ownership and divorce. Normally employees in almost any field of work don't deal with this level of instability. Most definitely the worst possible situation for him personally. Yet he still took us to a top 4 finish, 2 domestic cup finals and 2 trophies won including the final piece of silverwear for the club to complete the all time set. Add in the fact he out coached all his opponents in cup matches (Mendy and Co let him down from the ucl). 

Tuchel doesn't have a cult following, he has fans that he rightly earned through his achievements. To say he isn't elite is disrespectful of what he achieved at this club in such a short period of time. He took this club to a level which allowed them to compete with any club across 90 minutes. Including Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool the two teams we seek to be like.

He's the first coach to go to back to back UCL finals with two different teams. There's a reason why that hadn't be done before. It's not easy....you have to be at the top of your game as a coach.

The fact remains the same he wasn't sacked for sporting performance, but for a lack of compatability with the new owners. TT is far from perfect, he's still the best coach on the market right now. 

The difference between TT and Potter is our forwards couldn't finish under TT, but at least we made chances. Under Potter we create virtually nothing. Now perhaps people see just how important Timo was to our playstyle. Even without scoring, he was stretching the play running in behind and creating space for others.

Our biggest mistake imo was signing Lukaku in hindsight had we backed the system built in that ucl win and signed a player more like Sterling over Lukaku perhaps we wouldn't have regressed as bad as we did. The midfield will always remain an issue, yet they can't be completely blamed this a group of players that have made top 4 for the past 4 seasons, contested multiple cup finals and are the current reigning world champions. 

Moving back to the point of my post, Thomas Tuchel is an elite coach and recency bias has imo clouded your judgement.

Agree with this 100%. The football towards the end of his reign was turgid and boring, and he seemed to have been bombed because he didn't want to get involved in the boardroom deals for platers. Of course there will be more to it than that but it's an irony now as we seem to have a backroom that would grace an NFL franchise. 

 

[forbzy]

But both of these managers still manage to win trophies and leave us at least in respectable places. 

Both these managers had much better players at their disposal. A younger Kante, Hazard at his best, Cesc, Rudiger, Azpi etc. at their best. It has been a slow rot that probably started when Hazard left and was replaced with Pulisic.

 

[forbzy]

I wanted to type out the same thing but it's going to be way too repetitive at this point. 

I have no idea why we are still bringing up the topic of past coaches when the problem is our current coach isn't good enough yet. 

Say we all agree the players are the problem, does Potter immediately gets no accountability or responsibility even if it meant we get relegated? We are not even at the halfway point of the season. 

I think it will be interesting to see how many of the current starters are still in the first 11 by the end of January. Whoever is the manager, it looks like the new owners are bringing in a lot of new players, and I suspect they will want to see them get minutes sooner rather than later

 

[BS66]

Both these managers had much better players at their disposal. A younger Kante, Hazard at his best, Cesc, Rudiger, Azpi etc. at their best. It has been a slow rot that probably started when Hazard left and was replaced with Pulisic.

That slow rot has been pretty slow. Drogba/Costa were not replaced with equal or better players, neither was JT, nor Hazard, nor Lampard. It’s been hard to get too excited by the acquisitions in the last few years. Made worse by Haaland choosing City, he could have gone to Spain and broken Messi’s and Ronaldo’s records. 

 

[Droyman]

Been thinking of posting on here for a while, this thread has compelled me to do it!  I can't believe the hate being directed at Potter!!!!

Lets put a few things into perspective here!

1. We've been banned from buying players twice in two years, the second time we were banned from just about everything!

2. When we have been able to buy we've bought dog sh*te - its not Potters fault we've wasted hundreds of millions of pounds on Lukaku, Werner, Ziyech, Aubameyang, etc etc

3. This club has been mis-managed for a few seasons - now we are simply reaping the rewards

4. The injury list is and has been for a while horrendous!  Potter hasn't once yet been able to pick anything like his best team!

5. This season is f*cke up because of the World Cup, Potter hasn't even seen most of his first team for over a month!

6. Potter has still only had very few games (and very little time) to work with the sh*te he has

7. We weren't exactly pulling up trees under Tuchel (again because of the situations we've been in over the last couple of years), lets all remember we had been thrashed at LEEDS!! and soundly beaten at the home of perhaps the worst club in the division SOUTHAMPTON as well as losing to minnows ZAGREB!! under Touchel.

Can we put this into some perspective please!  NOBODY is going to sort out this mess in a matter of 10 games or so!!! Anybody that thinks this is a short fix isn't thinking very deeply.

Finally lets all remember that Arteta was bottom of the league with Arsenal in his early days and a LOT of Arsenal fans wanted him gone............I wonder how they feel now!?

We simply cannot keep swapping managers every few months to fix this!!

 

[Petworth Chelsea Fan]

Bournemouth did outplay us in the second half.

Sorry but they didn’t 

 

[icecoolguy22]

Already running out of words to describe these bunch of players and manager, apart from bunch of words start with C, F or S. Just like the Bourmouth game, when the opposition decided to take us on, they are well matched if not better than us, that's how much we have fallen in the past 6 months. None of the players and manager know a thing about breaking down a defence, we had two centre backs passing around in the center circle with 8 other players stand like statues in front of them. Everyone knows Forest's strength ( limited as it is), we had warning shots from the first 10 minutes, yet fail to deal with their fast and direct counter for the rest of the game. Awful way to concede that corner goal, rarely see a goal like that at this level when the first header was cleared, just need the GK or a big defender to contest it, all we got was Pullisic by himself fallen down, and defence line did not even step up to create offside. We had the longest rest of all teams, no excuse for running out of gas or whatever fitness related reasons. I heard we signed some exciting youngsters, saw nobody like that either. 2023 will see a lot of changes, but Chelsea will still be sh1t.

 

[Petworth Chelsea Fan]

I wanted to type out the same thing but it's going to be way too repetitive at this point. 

I have no idea why we are still bringing up the topic of past coaches when the problem is our current coach isn't good enough yet. 

Say we all agree the players are the problem, does Potter immediately gets no accountability or responsibility even if it meant we get relegated? We are not even at the halfway point of the season. 

The depressing thing today is that all us armchair managers could see we needed to change things before they scored - as they did from HT. Sadly Potter made a like for like change swapping Zakaria for Kova. Why not keep both on to make the midfield more solid! Instead he eventually reacted and made system changes when it was too late. I thought he was smart enough to be proactive rather than reactive but I’m not sure. 

 

[alwayshopeful]

Sorry but they didn’t 

yes they did, sorry but what was you watching . also 1st half was hardly a great half ..all the ball but how many shots on target .we need a clear out of players and a new manager.i believe in giving managers a chance , but when they have run out of ideas or have none, time to go.

 

[Petworth Chelsea Fan]

yes they did, sorry but what was you watching . also 1st half was hardly a great half ..all the ball but how many shots on target .we need a clear out of players and a new manager.i believe in giving managers a chance , but when they have run out of ideas or have none, time to go.

To be fair I’m not saying we were great but Bournemouth did nothing first half and yes did a bit more in the second half but to say they were better was not a view anyone else suggested. 

That aside, I too am concerned about what’s happening with the management of this team. 

 

[Munkunku]

Did you get your ticket through Chelsea or via Arsenal? I know a lot who didn't wait for the Chelsea allocation and bought from the home club.

Through Chelsea. It being posted via royal mail though so hopefully it’ll arrive!

 

[OhForAGreavsie]

Sorry but they didn’t 

Well it's a difference of opinion then. Not that numbers can settle this sort of disagreement, but, I have to say that the group of people around me in West Lower, block 3 were pretty unanimous in the opinion that Bournemouth were the better side in the second half.

 

[OhForAGreavsie]

Through Chelsea. It being posted via royal mail though so hopefully it’ll arrive!

I don't have mine yet either. In this electronic age it's a bit silly that they need to post paper tickets. I'm sure Arsenal have their reason, and it must be a good one to justify the extra cost and effort to print and mail them. Given that the home tickets will certainly be print at home or scan from devices, I wish Arsenal's boffins would have a head scratch and come up with a paperless solution for away fans too.

Bizarrely, when I've bought tickets for Arsenal Women's games at The Emirates I've just scanned them from my phone, but have been charged a booking fee. The ones for this game, which have had to be printed, and will need to be posted, have not had a booking fee added. I suppose Chelsea may have decided to swallow the booking fee. Wish they had requested more tickets though. 

 

[OhForAGreavsie]

Also I've seen the 'play the kids and recall loanees' solution mentioned under so many different Chelsea managers (including WC managers) over the years and the truth is that none of them other than Lampard were brave enough to do it so I highly doubt changing the manager will have that solution be used.

To be fair to the other managers, none of them had the quality of youngsters that SFL could call on. If you look at the players Frank used, and the careers they are carving out for themselves, no other Cobham age-group peers have yet matched them. 

 

[Ballack & Blu]

1 win in 7 matches. This is relegation form. 

45 minutes of the opposition playing direct and targeting Azpilicueta + Koulibaly. It worked wonders for them and they arguably should've won. 

This is the most expensive Chelsea team ever assembled and in all my years of watching I have never seen such a dysfunctional and imbalanced Chelsea team with such little to no quality. Being bailed out by a 38 year old CB game after game after game after game. 

I've got the answer, get the Don back, he's bitching about spurs not investing enough, come home Antonio, we loved you

 

[Mod]

He's 'used' goods now! Jose I could forgive with his recent 'my chelsea' comments!

 

[Sconnie Blue]

From a Forest fan. 

Worse team in the league doesn’t rate our midfield. 
 

2nd half - so much better once we started pressing and playing More direct. Chelsea just crumbled really. I’m amazed how little Chelsea did with the ball for a top 6 side - created almost nothing all game, seemingly happy to just pass around midfield ad infinitum, at a sluggardly pace. Can see why their fans aren’t happy. 

 

[axman2526]

From a Forest fan. 

Worse team in the league doesn’t rate our midfield. 
 

2nd half - so much better once we started pressing and playing More direct. Chelsea just crumbled really. I’m amazed how little Chelsea did with the ball for a top 6 side - created almost nothing all game, seemingly happy to just pass around midfield ad infinitum, at a sluggardly pace. Can see why their fans aren’t happy. 

They are not wrong. Yet the cult of Tuchel would have you believe he was perfection personified and he believed our midfield was fine until he had a last second panic...