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Piazon moaning about the loan system

didierforever said:
Cant disagree with a word Piazon has said.

Consider a child who has to shift from one school to another year after year. Basically has no friends, no support system, no stability. No manager is going to waste his time knowing that the player wont be with him next year. All in all, the loan system is a SHAM.

The only impact of loan system that we see is some financial rebate from FFP. 
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Yes they will if they are better than the alternatives, look at Tammy in Bristol. Lower league clubs care about one thing and one thing only, promotion and promotion immediately, next year doesn't even enter the train of thought with them guys.

Say  you were Huddersfield manager and had Akinfenwa or Rashford to chose from, would you pick the former just because he will be still be around next year? Same with PL clubs, all aside from the " big six"have a lingering chance of relegation, all said teams will pick the best players available to them at the current time, no messing about.

 
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Argo said:
Yes they will if they are better than the alternatives, look at Tammy in Bristol. Lower league clubs care about one thing and one thing only, promotion and promotion immediately, next year doesn't even enter the train of thought with them guys.

Say  you were Huddersfield manager and had Akinfenwa or Rashford to chose from, would you pick the former just because he will be still be around next year? Same with PL clubs, all aside from the " big six"have a lingering chance of relegation, all said teams will pick the best players available to them at the current time, no messing about.
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How many Tammy's are out there?

How many players of Rashford's talents are going to go to league 1 or championship. We are not talking about exceptional talents. We are talking about the Kiwomyas and john swifts. These players need to be developed. Need to be nurtured. They are not going to get a free pass to the first team. And no manager is going to waste time doing that.

 
didierforever said:
How many Tammy's are out there?

How many players of Rashford's talents are going to go to league 1 or championship. We are not talking about exceptional talents. We are talking about the Kiwomyas and john swifts. These players need to be developed. Need to be nurtured. They are not going to get a free pass to the first team. And no manager is going to waste time doing that.
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Kiwomya is playing regularly for Crewe in League Two after struggling for game time in League One, maybe he's just found his level? Swift got plenty off game time at Brentford which earned him his move to Reading, a decent upper Championship/lower premiership club. Point is with Rashford is if he didn't get the rub of the green with all 7or so players above him in the pecking order being injured or loaned out, he would probably be on loan in the Championship right now.

 
Argo said:
Kiwomya is playing regularly for Crewe in League Two after struggling for game time in League One, maybe he's just found his level? Swift got plenty off game time at Brentford which earned him his move to Reading, a decent upper Championship/lower premiership club. Point is with Rashford is if he didn't get the rub of the green with all 7or so players above him in the pecking order being injured or loaned out, he would probably be on loan in the Championship right now.
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Bamford was pretty much Middlesbrough`s main striker in a season they almost got promotion, while being on loan from us.

 
Argo said:
Kiwomya is playing regularly for Crewe in League Two after struggling for game time in League One, maybe he's just found his level? Swift got plenty off game time at Brentford which earned him his move to Reading, a decent upper Championship/lower premiership club. Point is with Rashford is if he didn't get the rub of the green with all 7or so players above him in the pecking order being injured or loaned out, he would probably be on loan in the Championship right now.
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EXACTLY. And I would put Kane in the same bracket.

Which again begs the question and the whole authenticity of the "LOAN" system, specially loaning players to lower divisions. 

I am sorry but I simply cant believe that a manager of a loanee club would give a damn about the youth player. Yes, he MIGHT play the kid if the kid is the best option he has but I doubt he would extensively look into the kid and develop him by working on his weakness and that is what my initial point was. Gametime and play time is only a small part of the development process of a 19/20 year old kid.

 
didierforever said:
Which again begs the question and the whole authenticity of the "LOAN" system, specially loaning players to lower divisions.
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Giving a youth player the conditions to succeed (to find his 'level') is the point of the loan system!!  :face_palm:

 
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didierforever said:
EXACTLY. And I would put Kane in the same bracket.

Which again begs the question and the whole authenticity of the "LOAN" system, specially loaning players to lower divisions. 

I am sorry but I simply cant believe that a manager of a loanee club would give a damn about the youth player. Yes, he MIGHT play the kid if the kid is the best option he has but I doubt he would extensively look into the kid and develop him by working on his weakness and that is what my initial point was. Gametime and play time is only a small part of the development process of a 19/20 year old kid.
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A manager in any league has no guarantee that any of their players will be there next season.  Just because someone has a contract does not matter one bit.  If they play well in a lower league, higher clubs are going to come with cash and you as the manager, who preferred this player over a loan player all season, could be powerless to resist.

 
the special one said:
Giving a youth player the conditions to succeed (to find his 'level') is the point of the loan system!!  :face_palm:
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I always thought "Gametime" and "first-team experience" to bridge the gap between the youth and the first team was the ultimate goal, rather than trying to find a suitor club for the youth player. 

 
didierforever said:
I always thought "Gametime" and "first-team experience" to bridge the gap between the youth and the first team was the ultimate goal, rather than trying to find a suitor club for the youth player. 
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Bridging the gap is the aim, but given the current league structure doesn't allow competitive B or C teams how else do you achieve that? What else can the club do to help the likes of Kiwomya and Tammy gain senior experience without compromising the first team's performance (or exposing a player to a level of competition they're clearly not ready for)?

Don't get me wrong I'd like nothing more than for players to remain at Chelsea, to nurture them as you say in the club's image/philosophy as they do at La Masia or Bayern - but without a competitive B team it's nothing more than a pipe dream. That's why we have 30+ players on loan!

 
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Van Butsen said:
A manager in any league has no guarantee that any of their players will be there next season.  Just because someone has a contract does not matter one bit.  If they play well in a lower league, higher clubs are going to come with cash and you as the manager, who preferred this player over a loan player all season, could be powerless to resist.
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But I feel there is a massive difference between "no guarantee" and "surety". Here, the manager is sure to lose the player.

 
didierforever said:
But I feel there is a massive difference between "no guarantee" and "surety". Here, the manager is sure to lose the player.
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Not necessarily.  With a good season at he club, the manager may want to buy the player and players are in more of a position to push for these moves now.  Having played a good season, they may feel at home at the new club and make that push.

The manager would surely have a no loanee's policy if he felt hamstrung by them.

 
Van Butsen said:
Not necessarily.  With a good season at he club, the manager may want to buy the player and players are in more of a position to push for these moves now.  Having played a good season, they may feel at home at the new club and make that push.

The manager would surely have a no loanee's policy if he felt hamstrung by them.
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But I doubt that ever happens. Lukaku and Cuadrado dont count because I am only counting youth players. They are 50mil pounds worth of players. Of the top of my head I honestly cant remember any youth player that had a good season (bamford, chalobah, atsu baker etc etc) but were bought off.

 
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