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Post season player ratings

ForeverCarefree said:
With the ball Jorginho, for the most part, is decent.

Without it, he's too often found wanting. When he's screening that area in front of the defence he's too easy to past and the lack of cover and protection from the midfield is as big a reason for the number of goals we conceded as the defenders. 

Jorginho is a specialist midfielder. He's pretty much suited to playing in only one role in the midfield which is sitting in front of the defence rather than playing box to box or in a more advanced position. Unless he's excelling in that role he's contributing little else. He finished the season with just 2 assists in all competitions, whilst we let in 50+ goals in the league. 

My personal opinion, he's not making a telling enough contribution at either end of the pitch. 
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He's a specialist who excels in a particular role in a particular system. That role isn't really suited to Frankball (yes I just called it that), so he looks like a fish out of water. I wish him all the best. You could never doubt his effort or commitment.

 
ForeverCarefree said:
What point are you trying to make about Davies? That our players in a transitional season didn't outperform a player that's part of one of the best sides in Europe? Plus what's that got to do with Tomori? 

Don't like my ratings or how I've based them feel free to post your own or create your own thread. 
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The point is that you have a built-in excuse for young players that skewers your ratings. Gilmour player 191 minutes in the PL and 157 in the FA cup yet deserves to be higher rated than Jorgi in your opinion. You're also doing the expectation thing with Mount to rationalize making him your personal POTY (which is fine), but forget to drop Kanté's rating. N'Golo is our only genuine world class player at the moment but had a horrible year for his standards.

Also, let's be real here. I don't want to come up with something on my own, because it's much easier to criticize others. ?

 
Vagabond said:
The point is that you have a built-in excuse for young players that skewers your ratings. Gilmour player 191 minutes in the PL and 157 in the FA cup yet deserves to be higher rated than Jorgi in your opinion. You're also doing the expectation thing with Mount to rationalize making him your personal POTY (which is fine), but forget to drop Kanté's rating. N'Golo is our only genuine world class player at the moment but had a horrible year for his standards.
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Gilmour barely played, what little playing time he got he did well despite being his first meaningful tastes of senior football. He did okay, didn't set the world on fire 6/10.

Jorginho, a seasoned, experienced, specialist player didn't deliver the sort of performances, consistently, I would expect from a player of his pedigree. 

I didn't "forget" to drop Kante's rating. 6/10 for a world class player who up to now has delivered 8 or 9/10 seasons up until now. Mostly down to a sting of injuries stopping him from building form and fitness. Yet despite this he still looked better and more at home in the team than Jorginho in my opinion. 

 
ForeverCarefree said:
8 or 9/10 seasons up until now.
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Definitly didn't last season either. 

Kante is quite the sensitive topic because people see the name and remember him as one of the best midfielders in the world. But he's been nowhere near that level for the last two years so you have to wonder if he'll get back to that level at this point.

 
Kante had a pretty average season overall considering that he's a world class player.

Statistically he made a few errors leading to goals and he was also injured more than once, those things can't go in his favor objectively speaking.

Jorginho has been better at everything in comparison to Kante this season, putting Kante a 6 out of 10 means that there had been factors outside of this season that were taken into account because this season alone wasn't slightly above average for Kante, it was at best just average.

 
charierre said:
We constantly hear footballers saying in interviews that we/ I must improve, therefore by that suggestion they haven't as yet given their best?
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to me, "given their best" is about effort, not reached 100% of their potential.

They're always striving to improve as players, and part of that is by giving their best [effort] every time they step on the pitch. 

anyway, thanks @ForeverCarefree for putting these together, I enjoyed the read.

 
Reminds me of my school reports where you'd get a number from 1-5 for effort, and a letter A-E for actual results.

The coveted 5A was never attained ! I did get a 3A a couple of times ?

 
Skinnedy said:
to me, "given their best" is about effort, not reached 100% of their potential.

They're always striving to improve as players, and part of that is by giving their best [effort] every time they step on the pitch. 

anyway, thanks @ForeverCarefree for putting these together, I enjoyed the read.
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This is why I said define your best. Yes you could run around giving every last drip of sweat but your concentration may have been poor, therefore you ran around like an idiot? And so on. 

It could be argued that every player gave his best if its just measured by sweat and effort and then by default all should score highly?

 
Sexyfootball said:
Reminds me of my school reports where you'd get a number from 1-5 for effort, and a letter A-E for actual results.

The coveted 5A was never attained ! I did get a 3A a couple of times ?
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How many 1E`s?

 
charierre said:
It could be argued that every player gave his best if its just measured by sweat and effort and then by default all should score highly?
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If all you're grading is effort, then sure... but the original comment was about expectations as a fan, not a rating of a player. So we're talking about two different things. 

If I'm rating players, my rating will reflect their performance, not just their effort

For example, as a USMNT fan, I don't think Michael Bradley is very good. I've said for a decade, if Bradley and Altidore are the best we have at CM and Striker, we're never going to be competitive the way we were the previous cycle. 

It's not their fault that they are the best we have, so my expectations as a fan don't change, I expect them to give their very best [effort]. 

They're not very good. That's not their fault.

As a fan, I won't degrade them for not being very good, but I'll get all over them if I see a poor effort and attitude.

and my expectations for the club are that they improve in the areas where the players may give their best effort, but it's not good enough. Victor Moses is a great example. NO ONE doubts his effort, and I love the guy. Doesn't mean I want him at Chelsea though.

 
Skinnedy said:
If all you're grading is effort, then sure... but the original comment was about expectations as a fan, not a rating of a player. So we're talking about two different things. 

If I'm rating players, my rating will reflect their performance, not just their effort

For example, as a USMNT fan, I don't think Michael Bradley is very good. I've said for a decade, if Bradley and Altidore are the best we have at CM and Striker, we're never going to be competitive the way we were the previous cycle. 

It's not their fault that they are the best we have, so my expectations as a fan don't change, I expect them to give their very best [effort]. 

They're not very good. That's not their fault.

As a fan, I won't degrade them for not being very good, but I'll get all over them if I see a poor effort and attitude.

and my expectations for the club are that they improve in the areas where the players may give their best effort, but it's not good enough. Victor Moses is a great example. NO ONE doubts his effort, and I love the guy. Doesn't mean I want him at Chelsea though.
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We are totally at cross swords here. My comment was to Yorkley to how you define your best.At no point did I question a players skillset or even mention a player. Best could be best effort , best concentration during the match , best mentally prepared before, best physical condition before( had I been on the p*ss a couple of nights before)best application, have I followed the coaches instructions etc. Hence best has a wide range in my view but it actually doesnt include skill.

 
charierre said:
We are totally at cross swords here. My comment was to Yorkley to how you define your best.At no point did I question a players skillset or even mention a player. Best could be best effort , best concentration during the match , best mentally prepared before, best physical condition before( had I been on the p*ss a couple of nights before)best application, have I followed the coaches instructions etc. Hence best has a wide range in my view but it actually doesnt include skill.
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It all got a bit deep for me. I said " the only "expectations" we are entitled to are that each player does his best when on the pitch"  and that was all I meant. I only have the right to expect that.  Getting into skill level and mental preparation and all that is secondary.  Get out there and do your best, that's all I ask.

Obviously, from a huge majority of posts in here during match-day threads and after, that isn't enough for most people, but then I have never, ever been a top-class player, manager, coach and international scout like most of you. 

For example, in my mind little Denis Wise was a quite limited footballer, but always gave 100% every time and I, for one, would kill for a Wise these days. 

A whole load of you would be on his back every match because he didn't match your expectations of what he should be doing in your mind, his xG/xA (whatever the f**k that actually means) isn't what I deserve as a long-term Chelsea fan who pays a HUGE subscription to NBC Sports Centre, Sky, BT and Bein Sports EVERY SEASON, and he doesn't protect the back 4 whilst still hitting 25 goals a season.

In summary, I should have worded my initial comment more precisely.  I expect every player to give 100% for the entire match.  I have no right to "expect" anything else.

 
yorkleyblue said:
It all got a bit deep for me. I said " the only "expectations" we are entitled to are that each player does his best when on the pitch"  and that was all I meant. I only have the right to expect that.  Getting into skill level and mental preparation and all that is secondary.  Get out there and do your best, that's all I ask.

Obviously, from a huge majority of posts in here during match-day threads and after, that isn't enough for most people, but then I have never, ever been a top-class player, manager, coach and international scout like most of you. 

For example, in my mind little Denis Wise was a quite limited footballer, but always gave 100% every time and I, for one, would kill for a Wise these days. 

A whole load of you would be on his back every match because he didn't match your expectations of what he should be doing in your mind, his xG/xA (whatever the f**k that actually means) isn't what I deserve as a long-term Chelsea fan who pays a HUGE subscription to NBC Sports Centre, Sky, BT and Bein Sports EVERY SEASON, and he doesn't protect the back 4 whilst still hitting 25 goals a season.

In summary, I should have worded my initial comment more precisely.  I expect every player to give 100% for the entire match.  I have no right to "expect" anything else.
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and I wish I didn't get involved 

 
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