Saul Niguez

[ForeverCarefree]

Can't predict the future but in theory it makes some sense imho: loan out a very young player that has the talent but lacks serious experience as a constant starter so that he can gain that experience to cpme back and immediatley be a candidate for starting formation at a AAA-club while you bring in an experienced and potentially world-class (broad definition) player that you expect to come in and bring 100% more or less on the get go and in various scenarios due his experience.

It remains to be seen how many minutes Saul actually gets once Jorgi, Kova (in beast mode atm, arguable more or less since TT took over) and Kanté are available (or even 2/3 at least fully fit). I think that especially as a CM who's supposed to dictate and influence the game as nobody else on the pitch it helps you most to play a lot of games as a regular starter if you lack match experience -> not the worst decision to let Gilmour go on loan to a side where he can learn exactly that.

But why does he need to go out on loan to gain experience? He's already good enough. We've seen enough of him to know that. 

Clubs like Liverpool are happy to play an 18 year old Harvey Barnes. Barca are willing to put faith in an 18 year old Pedri. 

We do it so often at Chelsea we've convinced ourselves it's the only way to do it that we have to loan out players until their early 20s to make sure they're "ready". Meanwhile, whilst they're away getting experience playing for teams nowhere near our level of ability we're giving minutes to overpriced signings. 

At this point it's more important for Gilmour to play week in, week out because he'd be fourth choice here as well. And he's got a lot of developing to do before he starts a lot of games for us.

But why are we happy to be paying Saul mammoth wages to be 4th choice? 

Make no mistake the intention is for him to play more than his fair share of minutes, that's why he was thrust straight into the starting line up. 

When Mbappe was 17 did Monaco send him out on loan to "gain experience"? No, they threw him staright into their starting line up. A year later he's joining PSG. 

This fallacy that players can't contribute at Chelsea because they're too young and inexperienced needs to change. 

 

[weetee]

But why does he need to go out on loan to gain experience? He's already good enough. We've seen enough of him to know that. 

Clubs like Liverpool are happy to play an 18 year old Harvey Barnes. Barca are willing to put faith in an 18 year old Pedri. 

We do it so often at Chelsea we've convinced ourselves it's the only way to do it that we have to loan out players until their early 20s to make sure they're "ready". Meanwhile, whilst they're away getting experience playing for teams nowhere near our level of ability we're giving minutes to overpriced signings. 

But why are we happy to be paying Saul mammoth wages to be 4th choice? 

Make no mistake the intention is for him to play more than his fair share of minutes, that's why he was thrust straight into the starting line up. 

When Mbappe was 17 did Monaco send him out on loan to "gain experience"? No, they threw him staright into their starting line up. A year later he's joining PSG. 

This fallacy that players can't contribute at Chelsea because they're too young and inexperienced needs to change. 

Not sure "we're happy to pay those wages" - the fact that we waited till the very last day to sign him up (on loan) tells me that we may have had other plans that did't went the way that was hoped for.

Maybe you see it different, but I certainly would see Billy as the 4th choice - if Saul reaches his regular level I'd say he's the far saver short time solution. Not sure what's inherently bad about Gilmour playing each and every single game at an EPL club either which he never would have done for us. Pedri doesn't really have that level of competition at Barca, who usually play a three man midfield, like Liverpool, which is quite a different task than our two man midfield - also Barca have to desparately develop what talent they've actually got left (and even there you could ask what happened to Puig, Arthur beforehand..etc.). and what options does Liverpool have? We have atm three world class players, or at least are in world class form, that share two positions already. Not sure that goes for Pool as well.

Saul was thrust into the starting formation mainly because Kanté's injured and Jorginho already played a lot of games depsite having very little free time after the EC finale himself while Saul didn't get the call for international duties and could rest and train "at home".

Monaco's whole purpose back then was to heat up as many young talents asap and to sell them to generate heavy profits - very different goal to what Chelsea as a club aims for. Also I'd argue that it's far easier to throw in an attacking player (next to a prime-ish Falcao no less) than one who has to play a far more subtle and "demanding" role in CM.

 

[Vagabond]

Obviously won't judge him on 45 min, but I thought he had a few easy and logical short (some would say "jorginhoesque") passes to Kovacic but decided to ignore him only to get in trouble a moment later. It was baffling.

If Kante is still out I'd put Saul in with Jorginho tomorrow since Kova looked knackered against Villa from min 70 and needs some rest for the upcoming games.

 

[Sindre]

Make no mistake the intention is for him to play more than his fair share of minutes, that's why he was thrust straight into the starting line up. 

When Mbappe was 17 did Monaco send him out on loan to "gain experience"? No, they threw him staright into their starting line up. A year later he's joining PSG. 

This fallacy that players can't contribute at Chelsea because they're too young and inexperienced needs to change. 

Every path is different. Mount and James benefited greatly from loans for example.

And some may disagree but I don't think Gilmour is ready yet. He's very vulnerable defensively still and has "only" had a decent start for Norwich this campaign and he still got a lot of learning to do. Learning that we can't really afford right now as we are in a dogfight for the title this season.

I am sure the hope is that Saul regains the form that made him one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe at one point. It's a chance to take but clearly one the club and Tuchel wanted to go for.

 

[Jangz]

i would rather focus on the positive that i saw.. i think there was one moment in the first half where he received the ball took a touch saw Alonso making a run and with no hesitation hit it 50-60 yards to him. Had alonso been able to bring it down cleanly it was a simple square pass for a goal.. Lets be calm.. many people dont remember but immediately after the restart Gilmour started against leicester in the cup and those were the worst 45 minutes one could have similar to Saul. So i think it can happen - yes Saul got surprised by the pace of the EPL.. i think it was TT who should take the blame - he should have started RLC over Saul.

Aston villa under dean smith play good football - lets not forget our last game of the league we actually got out fought and lost to them.

 

[ForeverCarefree]

I am sure the hope is that Saul regains the form that made him one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe at one point. It's a chance to take but clearly one the club and Tuchel wanted to go for.

So why is it better to risk hoping Saul regains form that he's not shown for two years, playing in a league and a country that's completely new to him as apposed to showing faith in a midfielder who has put in a few MOTM performances for club and country in his limited senior career already. 

Why take a chance on Saul but not Gilmour? 

I hope Saul is a success at Chelsea, better for us that he is. I'm just struggling to wrap my head around this one at the moment. 

 

[Sindre]

So why is it better to risk hoping Saul regains form that he's not shown for two years, playing in a league and a country that's completely new to him as apposed to showing faith in a midfielder who has put in a few MOTM performances for club and country in his limited senior career already. 

Why take a chance on Saul but not Gilmour? 

I hope Saul is a success at Chelsea, better for us that he is. I'm just struggling to wrap my head around this one at the moment. 

Because if Saul fail we will manage with Kante, Kovacic and Jorginho who are all terrific midfielders. And if Saul does alright he'll get his chances when the other midfielders needs to be rested in the domestic cups for example.

Gilmour could have stayed and do that job too. But that would mean being on the bench most of the time and we clearly thought it was more important for Gilmour to play every week, get a rhytmn and learn the ins and outs of the toughest league in the world.

 

[royce987]

Thing for me is Atletico spent the whole window trying to get shot of him. Why?

Did we get our answer today?

They needed to get salary off the books so they could sign griezmann. 

 

[axman2526]

They needed to get salary off the books so they could sign griezmann. 

True enough but again why was Saul the one chosen to sacrifice? They must have other big earners. Lemar, Koke, Suarez, Oblek etc.

 

[RMH]

True enough but again why was Saul the one chosen to sacrifice? They must have other big earners. Lemar, Koke, Suarez, Oblek etc.

Saul asked Atleti to leave, it’s widely reported that he wasn’t happy playing for Simeone any more and had asked the club to let him leave.

 

[Gol15]

Every path is different. Mount and James benefited greatly from loans for example.

And some may disagree but I don't think Gilmour is ready yet. He's very vulnerable defensively still and has "only" had a decent start for Norwich this campaign and he still got a lot of learning to do. Learning that we can't really afford right now as we are in a dogfight for the title this season.

I am sure the hope is that Saul regains the form that made him one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe at one point. It's a chance to take but clearly one the club and Tuchel wanted to go for.

IMO Tuchel will try to win the title and the strategy was to find an experienced player that has delivered on the big stage in the past but that wouldn't mind to be the sub option. Tuchel's estimanted that we have higher chances of success if we get someone like Saul to cover while a youngster like Gilmour isn't ready to be trusted that much yet.

I think Tuchel might have hugely underestimated Gilmour there, he played well for Scotland vs England for example and could do well vs Liverpool when he was even younger, that's just my opinion of course I don't know better than Tuchel.

Still I have no doubt that Saul is a quality player. In fact I think that fans should raise their eyebrows first and foremost at those that still struggle but that have been a part of the club for some time now. Pulisic is injured again, Chilwell isn't in the mix ever since he got injured as well and right now only Lukaku is delivering offensively speaking.

 

[Bob stark]

So why is it better to risk hoping Saul regains form that he's not shown for two years, playing in a league and a country that's completely new to him as apposed to showing faith in a midfielder who has put in a few MOTM performances for club and country in his limited senior career already. 

Why take a chance on Saul but not Gilmour? 

I hope Saul is a success at Chelsea, better for us that he is. I'm just struggling to wrap my head around this one at the moment. 

I personally prefer Gilmour to go on loan and get better rather than being part player for us. Any young player should not sit on the bench for season after season. 

I like Billy. He is already better forward passer than Jorgi. What he need is to get stronger physically and get a bit more Jorgi in him (play more conservative pass) 

 

[ozboy]

Gilmour needs to be better off the ball, and to bulk up a bit, but he for sure fits into the team better than Saul did. He will be the better for a season with Norwich, but we may miss him. 
 

not sure when we’ll see Saul again but I sure hope he does better than last time. He may have wanted to leave, but that’s because he couldn’t get into the athletico midfield. Or at least that’s how it looks to me from a distance. 

 

[ForeverCarefree]

I was pretty underwhelmed by Saul again last night. 

Was an improvement from his first appeaance (not difficult). Still early days but still not seeing much to get enthusiastic about. 

 

[Argo]

I was pretty underwhelmed by Saul again last night. 

Was an improvement from his first appeaance (not difficult). Still early days but still not seeing much to get enthusiastic about. 

Him signing for us in itself made me suspicious. If he was his best self why would he have come here knowing he'd have a fight on to even be the first substitute?

 

[ForeverCarefree]

Him signing for us in itself made me suspicious. If he was his best self why would he have come here knowing he'd have a fight on to even be the first substitute?

If Simeone felt he was up to the job to play in his midfield there is no way he would let him leave. 

But he was reduced to playing a bit part as a utility player for the last couple of seasons. 

He's gone from having a €100m buyout clause to being made available on loan with a sale value of €30m. 

Effectively we've (albiet low risk) gambled on hoping he might redescover form he hasn't shown for two years.  

 

[Argo]

If Simeone felt he was up to the job to play in his midfield there is no way he would let him leave. 

But he was reduced to playing a bit part as a utility player for the last couple of seasons. 

He's gone from having a €100m buyout clause to being made available on loan with a sale value of €30m. 

Effectively we've (albiet low risk) gambled on hoping he might redescover form he hasn't shown for two years.  

Yep was very wishful thinking that we would get the best Saul.

That said we with the three midfielders we have it isn't exactly an urgent requirement, just need him to get to a level where he can competently fill in when needed.

 

[axman2526]

Yep was very wishful thinking that we would get the best Saul.

That said we with the three midfielders we have it isn't exactly an urgent requirement, just need him to get to a level where he can competently fill in when needed.

Depends. If he offers less than Ross or Ruben do in those positions then it was a waste of money bringing him here.

Shame he is a lovely guy it seems however I would trust RLC more in the Jorgi role and Barkley in the Kova role than Saul.

 

[mojo]

he had the balls to come to the most demanding league knowing he'll have to work hard to break into the team. he's best friend is Kepa so he knew how fuclking hard it'll be. looking at the progress and influence Tomas has had on Kepa self confidence hope he can help Saul back to his best. props to Marina for the loan with no obligation to buy.

 

[Argo]

Depends. If he offers less than Ross or Ruben do in those positions then it was a waste of money bringing him here.

Shame he is a lovely guy it seems however I would trust RLC more in the Jorgi role and Barkley in the Kova role than Saul.

I very highly doubt either would be options for the 6 in any game of note.