Should Graham Potter be sacked?

[Deino]

I think the answer is any manager, as long as the pay is right. 

I agree with the overall point though. It’s clear to every man and his dog spot that what’s happening at Chelsea currently is a long term project. If the board were to pull the trigger on that within 4/5/6 months then all that talk of a long term project is meaningless. 

A new manager doesn’t fix the problems that exist in this squad. We might improve in the short term but in 18 months time we’d probably be looking for a new manager again and having all this talk of “project” and “vision” once again. Potter is also managing the club through the worst injury crisis I’ve ever seen. I’m confident once key players like James, Chilwell, Kante and Fofana return that we will start to look better. 

Top 4 has gone, and I’m ok with that as long as I feel the club are working for something in the long term which at the moment I still think is the case. 

Potter isn’t blameless either, some of the decisions and performances have been awful. But on the other hand we have had some good performances as well, and coincidentally those performances came when some of our key players weren’t injured. 

I do worry that the board may make a decision if results don’t improve, and everyone will say what a failure this exercise has been. But in my opinion there’s no way to say if this has been a failure or not unless we give him a reasonable amount of time to implement his ideas, and we’ve signed players that fit that vision. 

If we’ve not improved this time next year then maybe that’s when we need to start asking more questions but for now I’m still happy to give him a bit of time. 
 

This has been pretty much a failure already. 

The only excuse/defence is "this is a long term project". People say this is a long term project without there being proof of it actually being a long term project. 

You are just buying a lottery ticket in hope of winning a jackpot. 

 

[Argo]

Tuchel signed for us, took training that night and the next morning,  then played a flying Wolves that night getting a 0-0. We were a team that conceded from virtually every shot and Rudiger couldn't even get in the side because hecwas like Bambi on ice. Tuchel stopped the rot, dead, immediately. That got attention before going on any run.

With Potter we didn't even really get a new manager bounce.

While i don't disagree Tuchel had an immediate effect and I'm still to be sold on Potter.

Take James, Rudiger, Christensen, Kante, Kova and Chilwell out for most of that first half season and he makes no improvement on his predecessor either.

It's easy to dismiss it as an excuse but it's genuine mitigation. Swap Rudi/AC for Forfana and the last time we had three or more of the above avaliable at the same we smashed the current Serie A champions twice.

 

[Argo]

This has been pretty much a failure already. 

The only excuse/defence is "this is a long term project". People say this is a long term project without there being proof of it actually being a long term project. 

You are just buying a lottery ticket in hope of winning a jackpot. 

As I alluded to above the injuries are a valid mitigation.

If we were performing like this with the first team I'd be wanting him out already but our injury list is bonkers, even more so than last season which I didn't think was even possible.

 

[Spiller86]

The real point is that he never should have been appointed in the first place. Utter disaster from Boehly and co. If you're asking who should get the sack it's Boehly. Bring back Roman!

 

[Spiller86]

As I alluded to above the injuries are a valid mitigation.

If we were performing like this with the first team I'd be wanting him out already but our injury list is bonkers, even more so than last season which I didn't think was even possible.

Note this injury list comes six months after the new owners virtually sacked our entire medical staff. This is a cluster that comes right from the top. 

 

[Drogba1]

I genuinely don't think this needs to be a mess. We do have quality players. Yes we have some dross, everybody does. But we do have quality. Even PEA would score goals in the correct environment. 

A dedicated fitness and conditioning regime and a better structured  pattern of play is easily achievable providing the players respect the management and believe in the project.

Unfortunately i think that it is starting to look like the players themselves still have the entrenched mentality of "show me your medals". 

Tuchel signed for us, took training that night and the next morning,  then played a flying Wolves that night getting a 0-0. We were a team that conceded from virtually every shot and Rudiger couldn't even get in the side because hecwas like Bambi on ice. Tuchel stopped the rot, dead, immediately. That got attention before going on any run.

With Potter we didn't even really get a new manager bounce.

Do they believe in him. I am starting to have doubts.

He needs to have a game where it all clicks and we give someone a proper rinsing. Then we will have something tangible that we can see as a target we are heading towards. Its not been visible in four months so far.

'Unfortunately i think that it is starting to look like the players themselves still have the entrenched mentality of "show me your medals". '

Judging by Kieron Dyer's comments that seems to be the case, though I do genuinely think Tuchel is tactically a far better manager and the training was more likely more intense under him.

 

[axman2526]

'Unfortunately i think that it is starting to look like the players themselves still have the entrenched mentality of "show me your medals". '

Judging by Kieron Dyer's comments that seems to be the case, though I do genuinely think Tuchel is tactically a far better manager and the training was more likely more intense under him.

The players have turned on winners before though, Jose for example.

 

[forbzy]

Note this injury list comes six months after the new owners virtually sacked our entire medical staff. This is a cluster that comes right from the top. 

The injury issues have been a problem for the last 2-3 years now though. They have just got worse this year. 

 

[axman2526]

Far too many negative to sacking Potter now to make it worth while imo.

Unless you tell me Todd is going to sign a top class keeper, midfield enforcer, midfield creator, a goal scoring, wide player who creates havoc and is a very good finisher AND an all around striker that is a lethal finisher then we have no chance of making top 4, no chance of winning the CL with what we have. Potter,  Tuchel, Pep, Klopp, Big Sam, it don't matter who the manager is he is not taking this lot, with this injury list, to those goals from where we are right now.

So why set another manager up for failure? That is what we would be doing. We would be saying where we are is not acceptable. I know it is not but you would be giving a new manager a hospital pass and gaining nothing by it. We are not making top 4, we are not getting relegated, so give Potter the time to either make improvements or hang himself. 

Otherwise what manager is going to believe a word our owners say to them? What good manager walks in to this? Because of our name alone and IF Todd promises to buy him the players he wants we can still attract a top coach in the summer with no European football.

Let's see what Potter can do until then. Remember giving Lamps extra time allowed us to develop Mount and James, and wait for TT to be sacked and appoint him. Without those 3, no second CL. And yes I know we sacked Lamps around now for TT when things looked bleak. I don't think he can repeat the trick with this squad and these injuries even if he wanted to come back, and even if he does our owners made it CLEAR he was sacked not for football reasons, but because they could not work with him for the goals they wanted.

 

[Deino]

As I alluded to above the injuries are a valid mitigation.

If we were performing like this with the first team I'd be wanting him out already but our injury list is bonkers, even more so than last season which I didn't think was even possible.

You're not wrong but something has to change. The longer we are stuck in this performance rut,  the harder it becomes to believe in the ownership or management. 

The only sliver of hope fans have these days is that Boehly and Co. are not afraid of spending money on new players.

 

[axman2526]

You're not wrong but something has to change. The longer we are stuck in this performance rut,  the harder it becomes to believe in the ownership or management. 

The only sliver of hope fans have these days is that Boehly and Co. are not afraid of spending money on new players.

Though that hope is tempered by the fact they spent money on dross like Cucurella, Aubameyang and Sterling.

 

[Spiller86]

The injury issues have been a problem for the last 2-3 years now though. They have just got worse this year. 

Funny that it gets worse when you remove any continuity in your medical team. 

 

[WhiteWall]

While i don't disagree Tuchel had an immediate effect and I'm still to be sold on Potter.

Take James, Rudiger, Christensen, Kante, Kova and Chilwell out for most of that first half season and he makes no improvement on his predecessor either.

It's easy to dismiss it as an excuse but it's genuine mitigation. Swap Rudi/AC for Forfana and the last time we had three or more of the above avaliable at the same we smashed the current Serie A champions twice.

Fair point. It's a bit ifs and ands but it's still a valid point you make @Argo

 

[dkw]

I think the answer is any manager, as long as the pay is right. 

I agree with the overall point though. It’s clear to every man and his dog spot that what’s happening at Chelsea currently is a long term project. If the board were to pull the trigger on that within 4/5/6 months then all that talk of a long term project is meaningless. 

A new manager doesn’t fix the problems that exist in this squad. We might improve in the short term but in 18 months time we’d probably be looking for a new manager again and having all this talk of “project” and “vision” once again. Potter is also managing the club through the worst injury crisis I’ve ever seen. I’m confident once key players like James, Chilwell, Kante and Fofana return that we will start to look better. 

Top 4 has gone, and I’m ok with that as long as I feel the club are working for something in the long term which at the moment I still think is the case. 

Potter isn’t blameless either, some of the decisions and performances have been awful. But on the other hand we have had some good performances as well, and coincidentally those performances came when some of our key players weren’t injured. 

I do worry that the board may make a decision if results don’t improve, and everyone will say what a failure this exercise has been. But in my opinion there’s no way to say if this has been a failure or not unless we give him a reasonable amount of time to implement his ideas, and we’ve signed players that fit that vision. 

If we’ve not improved this time next year then maybe that’s when we need to start asking more questions but for now I’m still happy to give him a bit of time. 
 

Superb post, and one I would hope any sensible fan would agree with. I just dont understand what "fans" think will change if we sack Potter and bring in the next one, the squad we have is shambolic because of the last 3 or 4 windows, we have been in decline for over 12 months the way we played, the thing we need now is a steady and consistent managerial team, a plan to move the squad forward, which seems to happening based on the players in, but it needs to be trimmed at the top end.

Seeing a certain type of fan whine and stamp their feet is embarrassing, demanding sackings, some even wanting the new owners out. Get a f**king grip.

 

[bluehaze]

 

[cfr95]

I count nine senior players injured now and people are surprised we're struggling to get results?

At it's core we have the same issues we've had for years. We can give a decent showing against big teams but can't break down a low block consistently so give up points to teams fighting relegation. We had a spell under TT when James and Chilwell were both in full flight where this wasn't the case but they haven't both been fully fit at the same time for what feels like 18 months now. Prior to that we relied on Fabregas and Hazard to unlock defences, two unquestionably world class players who we haven't really replaced.

Our backups in key positions are either getting too old (Azpi), or just aren't quite good enough (Cucurella, though maybe I'm judging him too early on). We need to recruit better and hopefully the new structure put in place starts doing that soon.

Regardless, with the injuries we have and the players currently in the squad, I don't think it matters who the manager is, Sure, maybe we could "sufferball" our way to a few more wins this season than we're on currently, but does that help us play better next season? Stick a combination of prime Mourinho, Fergie, and Pep into some kind of managerial gumbo and give them the job today, I still struggle to see how the issues within the squad go away all of a sudden.


All this is a very long-winded way of saying: Give Potter time, be patient, we'll get there.

 

 

[Pottery]

I could accept Potter coming if he had some experience in place to help him. But no came with all Brightons staff. Not one with any experience at the top. How on earth do you get top players to respond and look up to them. Same with taking there recruitment team. Again these people have been scouting at a different level. Is it a coincidence that Brighton are scoring far more goals under there new manager.

 

[cfr95]

I could accept Potter coming if he had some experience in place to help him. But no came with all Brightons staff. Not one with any experience at the top. How on earth do you get top players to respond and look up to them. Same with taking there recruitment team. Again these people have been scouting at a different level. Is it a coincidence that Brighton are scoring far more goals under there new manager.

Which senior players aren't responding to Potter that responded to Tuchel? Maybe you've seen or heard something I haven't, but let's look at last nights side, shall we?

Kepa has rediscovered a confidence he hasnt had in years, could have done more to stop the goal but I believe thats his first real mistake in a while now

Azpi is still giving everything every time he plays (his legs are gone but that's besides the point)

Thiago remains imperious

KK's performances were just as inconsistent under TT, though I thought he was better last night than he has been for a while

Cucurella is playing under the same manager as last year, so he's a moot point

Kova played very well

Zak was immense, has come on leaps and bounds since his first appearance for us

Sterling - immediately injured

Ziyech - one of his better performances for Chelsea since 22 CL run

Pulisic - involved and direct until injured, looked up for it

Havertz - no real discernable difference between his performances under TT, linked up fairly well, still struggles in the final third a bit.

I wont bother going through the subs one by one. I'll just point to the energy they injected and again I'll ask, where does this idea players aren't responding come from? Were we not just as flat against several sides last season as we were against Forest last week? I swear some people have rose tinted glassed on when it comes to this club.

 

[jack_super_class]

Potter is the least person i would criticise for this mess.
Majority of this squad isn't good enough. The CL win just papered over the cracks. This is years of bad recruitment, sacking managers, having no structure or style of play is catching up with us.
This goes from the previous ownership to the new ownership giving TT a transfer window to buy players and then sacking him straight after.
Potter out solves absolutely nothing.

 

[big blue]

You should accept that this season is done and dusted unless by some miracle we progress in the CL. This season has been the perfect storm, half the first team squad out with long term injuries, clueless new owners with a manager that has never managed at this level, stupid buys with no direction and bringing in a team of backroom staff that have only worked with bang average clubs....a recipe for disaster as unfolding before our eyes. 

Next season we won't have to worry about Wed or Thurs games, as we will finish around mid-table this year and no European football to distract us.  This will give GP more time with the squad to concentrate on the League games and preparation with the 'new generation'.......................assuming he's still here.

Season isnt even half way through, how can it be done and dusted?

We are 10 points off 4th, and 10 points off 18th. 

Still need to try and win football matches. It's not acceptable for Potter to finish below 8th with this squad. If he treats the season as done and dusted and we finish mid table, what players are still going to be on board with him managing? What players will want to come in the summer? He has a small reputation as it is.