Under-23 Tide Always Going Out And Never Coming In?

[Dorset]

 
“It’s a massively positive result for the group. It was a very good performance and I’m very proud to see football played like that all through the game. The speed of our passing was a lot quicker than at Sunderland and our response at 1-1 was excellent.
 
We played with four different systems in pre-season and it’s great to have that adaptability. I’m sure we will use a couple more systems throughout the year because we have to suit the players we have available and the team we want to go with. The challenge now is to see if we can produce that sort of performance again. I’ve said to the players as long as they give their all in every game and work to what we want to achieve in the game then I’ll be happy.
 
You have to enjoy performances when you play as well as that at this age. We have got so many talented players, most of them English, so it’s an exciting group to work with. It was a very pleasing night but most of all it’s nice to see the week’s work coming out in the game. When the players can see the fruits of their work come out in the game at the end of the week, it means they have more buy-in to the work that we’re doing.”
 
The words of Adi Viveash, commenting on our Under-23s second game in the re-branded Premier League 2 against Liverpool, a 4-1 victory that has been given scant coverage in the media in general, or within these pages in particular. To be honest, it is easy to see why with regard to the former, as no Liverpool loss against us at this level is, in effect, no news as far as most outlets are concerned, and I suppose it is also easy to understand our own apathy. We have been here before with this Development squad, trying in vain to second-guess the thinking behind a certain selection or formation and then twisting those thoughts into blind faith evidence of the sea change in playing style and personnel that many of us have always wanted to happen at the club, ever since the Academy footings went in. Truth be told, most fans have long since given up on preaching such a change for the better, as opposed to those short-change Jose win-at-all-cost [to youth development] dog days, but now more akin to the new dawn Conte Judgement Day revolution - the once and for all drowning of plain and simple-minded spending on Pogba-priced players brought about by a biblical flood of home grown talent into our first team squad. 
 
So it was with a somewhat jaundiced eye that I settled down to watch this game, hoping to see some familiar faces from past FA Youth Cup campaigns continue their journey [to God knows where] together through the ranks, learning their trade, whilst at the same time showing some signs of Conte-nuity with the Italian’s first team formations and philosophy. In this respect Adi Viveash’s summation is a good one - speed of passing, system adaptability, giving your all, buying into the work - every last drop of Conte commitment thirstily drained from the players optimistic half-full glasses, not a half-empty vessel in sight. And the personnel on this occasion didn’t disappoint either… 
 
Opting for a 3-4-2-1 formation, a team was selected with an average age of just over 17yrs, five of them still eligible for the FA Youth Cup side. They completely dominated the first half and went on to cut the opposition apart in the final quarter. Fikayo Tomori, Joseph Colley and Trevoh Chalobah were rock-solid at the back, Jay Dasilva captained the team and with Dujon Sterling took the left and right wing back positions. The diminutive Josimar Quintero was his usual box of tricks in midfield alongside Mason Mount, full of invention plus an eagle eye for goal, so we had a constant threat going forward. Kyle Scott played the Pirlo role as only he can [among the current crop of midfielders at this level] with a metronomic direction of the pace of play, always one or two-touch passing with fluid, forward movement. Isaac Christie-Davies made his first appearance in the attacking midfield role supporting Ike Ugbo, the lone striker now that Tammy Abraham is knocking them in at Bristol City and Dominic Solanke is on occasional first team bench-warming duty. 
 
It is, of course, easy to get carried away with the positives, as you do, as we have done in the past and no doubt we will do in the future, but what can really be gleaned from any of this Academy progression stuff that we don’t know already, or fear might merely be groundhog day repetition, other than the infrequent emergence of a JT or Ruben Loftus-Cheek every once in a very, very long while? Well, right here, right now, I would like to think that Antonio Conte has at least a shadow squad-load of these players in mind for first team consideration within the next five years, including goalkeepers Bradley Collins and Nathan Baxter, one of whom must surely be an understudy to Tibo Courtois within that time span. Sadly, it will take a massive sea change in club policy for this to happen and the pursuit of £40m centre backs does not bode well for current incumbents such as Clarke-Salter and Tomori, let alone Andreas Christensen, who is in danger of fast becoming yesterday’s man in absentia.  
 
Then again, there are those who have rapidly reached the stage of not caring less, crave a Deadline Day deal or three, cite our evident need for transitional transfers and our new manager’s obvious acquiescence in the big-buying process. While not disputing that need, I worry about satisfying it at any cost, both to wallet and youth development, yet still have high hopes that Conte’s arrival will take us one more step further down the right-minded road. Any great leap of faith along it may well have to wait until a top four place is secured, but in the meantime Adi Viveash continues to talk the talk, the young players continue to walk the walk [all over the opposition] and we the fans continue to wonder if the sea change tide will ever turn and come on in at Stamford Bridge.
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[Dorset]

One of the more recent photos of Antonio Conte on his dedicated thread shows him in conversation with Carlo Cudicini and Steve Holland seated somewhere in the stands at the Bridge. What is not mentioned is that it was taken last Friday night while they were watching the PL2 game against Tottenham, further evidence of our new manager’s desire to be seen as well as heard when it comes to Academy, Loanee and Development Squad matters. Here he was to witness another fine performance from the group that these days seem to fly permanently under this website’s radar. Hence my unapologetic bumping of this topic despite a seeming lack of interest in the youthful subject matter that, mercifully, does not appear to stretch as far as the Conte household, any disinterested plans he might have had for a good old Friday night out or a quiet meal in with the wife (seated beside him at the game) kept for another time and place.

Second half goals from Jay Dasilva, Isaac Christie-Davies and Fikayo Tomori led to a comfortable 3-1 win over a workmanlike Spurs team, with Adi Viveash using a 4-2-3-1 formation that was much more adventurous than it sounds, as the two central midfielders chosen, Kyle Scott and Josimar Quintero, are the Little and Littler partnership option that many a coach would not have dared try for fear of physical domination. No apparent problem for Viveash though - he just paired them regardless - allowing their talent do the rest, and he was richly rewarded as they ratted around the pitch, belying their size in true Wisey fashion. Indeed, Kyle Scott put in a shift of genuine quality, described by Tommy Langley as ’a real bossing of the midfield’ and one that saw him substituted in the 92nd minute in order to receive a well-deserved ovation from the crowd and a hug from his appreciative coach. 

Other players to shine under the increased pressure of Conte’s presence must surely be the back four en bloc - skipper Dasilva, who put the opening pen away with aplomb, the ever-reliant Trevoh Chalobah, Tomori and Jake Clarke-Salter, who had previously completed a loan move to Bristol Rovers, but it has since been agreed he remains at his parent club to build fitness after a long-term layoff. Sadly, the only downside on a night for showcasing your talent, was that there was to be no game time for Dominic Solanke, who missed out due to an injury sustained against United in the previous game. Otherwise onwards and upwards, then, with the very real prospect of further silverware to come for this group that’s been together now at various age levels for quite some time.
 

 

[SydneyChelsea]

It is, of course, easy to get carried away with the positives, as you do, as we have done in the past and no doubt we will do in the future, but what can really be gleaned from any of this Academy progression stuff that we don’t know already, or fear might merely be groundhog day repetition, other than the infrequent emergence of a JT or Ruben Loftus-Cheek every once in a very, very long while? Well, right here, right now, I would like to think that Antonio Conte has at least a shadow squad-load of these players in mind for first team consideration within the next five years, including goalkeepers Bradley Collins and Nathan Baxter, one of whom must surely be an understudy to Tibo Courtois within that time span. Sadly, it will take a massive sea change in club policy for this to happen and the pursuit of £40m centre backs does not bode well for current incumbents such as Clarke-Salter and Tomori, let alone Andreas Christensen, who is in danger of fast becoming yesterday’s man in absentia.  
Then again, there are those who have rapidly reached the stage of not caring less, crave a Deadline Day deal or three, cite our evident need for transitional transfers and our new manager’s obvious acquiescence in the big-buying process. While not disputing that need, I worry about satisfying it at any cost, both to wallet and youth development, yet still have high hopes that Conte’s arrival will take us one more step further down the right-minded road. Any great leap of faith along it may well have to wait until a top four place is secured, but in the meantime Adi Viveash continues to talk the talk, the young players continue to walk the walk [all over the opposition] and we the fans continue to wonder if the sea change tide will ever turn and come on in at Stamford Bridge.

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Awesome match report as usual, Dorset!

I'd like to comment on perhaps what can be interpreted as cynicism from Chelsea fans regarding our youth products. It seems our fanbase is somewhat split, with some parties (such as yourself and @Nibs) tired of the never-ending false dawns yet still remain interested in voicing hope amidst the frustration, and the other half so disillusioned/disinterested in our youth/loan scheme that it just feels cognitively easier to get excited about a 40m bid for the latest Youtube sensation.

As someone who started the transfer window in the first group, and now largely identifies with the second, it was incredibly frustrating this window to see the club struggle to fill transfer targets from other clubs despite the two positions in question being adequately staffed with potential youth prospects. The last few years of reports from both club and fans showered adulation on the likes of Ake, Clarke-Salter, Aina, etc - I won't include Christensen, because his situation was decided last season under Mourinho and the club are unfortunately bound by that contract - and at least one of them should have been shown faith if only as a backup. In addition to defenders, the loaning out of Abraham and the open pursuit of a third senior striker seemed to suggest the club had no intention of committing to youth, and as most of these deals were organised without Conte officially at the helm, it would be pretty reasonable to assume these orders come from the club hierarchy which is an even bigger kick in the teeth if you held out hope for homegrown products.

In any case, I wanted to make separate thread for this but I think your post provides a really good backdrop for this discussion; what, if anything, would qualify a youth player to be "good enough" for the first team? No manager nor representative of club has ever really given a definitive statement in this regard, and while we've often put this down to our revolving doors, the 'success' of the loan army and the admission that this is a long-term plan seems to suggest that the club is capable of actually making those sorts of decisions.

In my mind, most times when a forum discusses a player's transfer, the criteria used to dismiss a players' achievements (performance in a lower league, age, luck etc. etc.) often reduces to a bizarre circular logic. For example look no further than the old Aguero thread on this forum, where it seemed established that because:

- Aguero only scored goals in a less-defensive league
- Aguero played against poorer defenders
- Aguero was not tested in England
 

Therefore Aguero would not be successful at Chelsea.

The problem with this sort of logic is that in perspective it reduces to the bizarre idea that no player is good enough for Chelsea - until he succeeds at Chelsea. While that's a nice sentiment, it logically excludes every player outside the club as ever possibly being a potential transfer.

The reason why I bring this up is because I believe the same circular logic is firmly ingrained in both some sets of our fans and the club management too. The same sort of criticisms are levelled at our youth players:

- Plays in a weaker league
- Never been in a professional environment
- Not been tested in the professional environment 

Again, you end up with the circular conclusion.  No player is good enough for the first team until they play in the first team.
 

The problem with these arguments is that it assumes the player's ability is totally relative to his circumstances. It simply isn't true and is refuted time and time again, though we hold on to memories of Kezman and Enrique de Lucas and Del Horno because of confirmation bias. Here's the thing; Suarez scored 81 goals for A**x in a crap league because he was a good player playing against weak ones. Just like how Suarez would probably score 81 goals playing park football against a Shed End XI before @Gem or @dkw kicked his face off - he's just that much better in terms of his absolute level. 

Similarly, while Abraham and Solanke were scoring for fun in youth/reserve leagues, it can't instantly be dismissed as "just youth football". It's a combination of talent and circumstance.
A similar criticism, often by managers, is that young players "lack experience". An obvious truism but whether it actually has any impact on their performance is definitely up for debate. The basis of this argument is that generally speaking a player is better at age 27 compared to when they are age 21. While that's true when comparing players to the their younger selves, it doesn't always hold true when comparing players to other players. A 24 year old Hazard was objectively a better player than 28 year old Aaron Lennon. Lennon's experience doesn't always compare with Hazard's raw talent. At Chelsea, we've fielded the likes of Meireles instead of promising midfield talents in the name of experience.

The truth is, there is no indicator, no smoking gun that indicates a player is ready for first team action, and if any manager, executive or fan believes that they are delusional. If such a concept existed, in this era of advanced statistical analysis and record keeping it would surely be commercialised into a surefire successful youth program. To my knowledge, nothing remotely close to that exists.

If you really get to the heart of what makes a successful youth player it's the intersection of talent and opportunity. Marcus Rashford needed two last-minute injuries before he was given a chance and he wasn't even on the list of Utd's most promising talents yet he's now a household name.

As evident by the number of players making first division careers across Europe, and the demand for our loan army, Chelsea are clearly great at developing the talent part but we are so reticent with the opportunity. The only consistent predictor of success with youth players seem to be that they were given opportunities. To do that requires nothing but faith because there's simply nothing to indicate when a player is "ready" for the first team.