Who the f**k is Emenalo

[ShedEnder91]

So which one is it?

I'm happy to share the blame but Roman is at fault for hiring Emenalo. He should hire someone better qualified and then take a step back. Roman's only talent in football is the same as every other Chairman/owner - writing cheques. 

It's obviously the manager's (or first team head coach, however we call him) responsibility, he is picking the match squad and the starting 11.

But if the owner is saying 'win now' then incorporating youngsters reduces the chances of winning. That's the thing, young players will make mistakes whilst learning so you have to factor that into your short and long-term planning.

We don't do that, as evidenced by over a decade of failing to develop an Academy talent despite having the best youth teams in England and arguably Europe.

What your suggesting is that a coach picks teams in a vacuum which is obviously untrue. 

 

[ForeverCarefree]

Despite being one of the most senior people at the club according to some posts I'm reading here Emenalo isn't responsible or accountable for anything to do with the first team.

The man is made from Teflon.

 

[undertow]

I'm happy to share the blame but Roman is at fault for hiring Emenalo. He should hire someone better qualified and then take a step back. Roman's only talent in football is the same as every other Chairman/owner - writing cheques. 

But if the owner is saying 'win now' then incorporating youngsters reduces the chances of winning. That's the thing, young players will make mistakes whilst learning so you have to factor that into your short and long-term planning.

We don't do that, as evidenced by over a decade of failing to develop an Academy talent despite having the best youth teams in England and arguably Europe.

What your suggesting is that a coach picks teams in a vacuum which is obviously untrue. 

You really think that the owner has more say in the team selection than the manager? Come on now. Roman has his faults and made his share of mistakes but at the end of the day it's him deciding whether this or that youngster is in the match squad or not. The problem is not coming from a single person, the blame has to be shared by all parties involved. It's the manager however who bears the most responsibility.

 

[ShedEnder91]

You really think that the owner has more say in the team selection than the manager? 

I didn't say that. I said that the owner sets the tone, the ambition, the targets. 

The problem is not coming from a single person, the blame has to be shared by all parties involved. It's the manager however who bears the most responsibility.

I think it's naive to think that simply changing the coach will change the end result but you might be right, Maybe it'll be different under Conte.

What's that phrase? Oh yeah....

Fourteenth times the charm.

 

[undertow]

I didn't say that. I said that the owner sets the tone, the ambition, the targets. 

I think it's naive to think that simply changing the coach will change the end result but you might be right, Maybe it'll be different under Conte.

What's that phrase? Oh yeah....

Fourteenth times the charm.

You might as well have quoted only my last sentence seeing that you fully disregarded the first in order to twist my words. It's a wee bit ironic after starting with "I didn't say that".

 

[g3.7]

Step 1.

It's the managers responsibility to decide keep them in the first team squad or not. Not emenalo, not bath- the manager.

Step 2.

If the manager doesn't want to keep them it is emenalos responsibility to find the player a suitable club to go out on loan to, or to sell them if the manager has no long term interest in them. The player had to agree to the loan as well.

Step 3.

It is down to the player to take his chances whether he stays in the first team or not. At the end of the season you go back to step 1.

Has emenalo done a good job there? Yes, in my opinion he has. I think mistakes have been made, but I don't think Bamford is an example. Chalobah to napoli was a mistake. Delac loaned out as a second choice keeper was a huge mistake, even though he was never going to be a Chelsea player. Wallace to inter. But the successes are out there. Thorgan hazard, Andreas christensen, Thibaut courtois, Kevin de Bruyne, Bertrand traore, Nathan ake, Lewis baker and dom solanke have all had or are still having loans that are clearly benefitting their development.

 

[ShedEnder91]

You might as well have quoted only my last sentence seeing that you fully disregarded the first in order to twist my words. It's a wee bit ironic after starting with "I didn't say that".

I apologise if you think I twisted your words. I'll have another go.

You really think that the owner has more say in the team selection than the manager? Come on now. 

I didn't say that. I said that the owner sets the tone, the ambition, the targets. 

 Roman has his faults and made his share of mistakes but at the end of the day it's him deciding whether this or that youngster is in the match squad or not.

I disagree. It isn't Roman deciding.

Better?

 

[dkw]

Despite being one of the most senior people at the club according to some posts I'm reading here Emenalo isn't responsible or accountable for anything to do with the first team.

The man is made from Teflon.

Oh you nasty racist.

 

[undertow]

I apologise if you think I twisted your words. I'll have another go.

I didn't say that. I said that the owner sets the tone, the ambition, the targets. 

I disagree. It isn't Roman deciding.

Better?

It's not Roman deciding, that was a typo obviously I was arguing that the manager has way more influence on the selections than him.

 

[ShedEnder91]

 Chalobah to napoli was a mistake. Delac loaned out as a second choice keeper was a huge mistake, even though he was never going to be a Chelsea player. Wallace to inter. But the successes are out there. Thorgan hazard, Andreas christensen, Thibaut courtois, Kevin de Bruyne, Bertrand traore, Nathan ake, Lewis baker and dom solanke have all had or are still having loans that are clearly benefitting their development.

Chalobah to Forest under Billy Davies was a mistake. The loan to Burnley was also a mistake. Basically anything after Watford was either a bad loan or a half-arsed attempt to fix a bad loan. Napoli was just laughable.

Delac who cares?

Wallace to Inter was stupid but that was the player's fault allegedly.

Hazard, Courtois, De Bruyne and Traore aren't Academy products.

Christensen, Baker and Solanke are 'wait and sees' because two of them are probably leaving Vitesse to go somewhere else and that is the decisive loan, where we usually f**k up.

None of this changes the fact that in Roman's time here (and Emanlo's) we've not developed a single Academy player into a first-team player. It's a problem.

 

[g3.7]

On chalobah I disagree to a point - Jose wasn't giving him chances and it was out of the window so the options were limited for first team football. If a player goes to a club where he gets a chance or if he gets injured then that can't be put on emenalo.

On the non academy players my point is that clearly those are examples of the loans working. Also traore is an academy player. He doesn't count as one, but that is a technical issue. He's a product of the Chelsea system as much as anyone.

It's a problem that no academy players has fully established themselves since jt, but it needs to be recognised that no technical director can force a manager to play the kids. He has to want to.

 

[ShedEnder91]

On chalobah I disagree to a point - Jose wasn't giving him chances and it was out of the window so the options were limited for first team football. If a player goes to a club where he gets a chance or if he gets injured then that can't be put on emenalo.

On the non academy players my point is that clearly those are examples of the loans working. Also traore is an academy player. He doesn't count as one, but that is a technical issue. He's a product of the Chelsea system as much as anyone.

It's a problem that no academy players has fully established themselves since jt, but it needs to be recognised that no technical director can force a manager to play the kids. He has to want to.

The problem is you're asking coaches to put their jobs on the line to serve long-term benefits that they probably won't be around to reap because we dismiss coaches so often. Roman has judged coaches on short-term goals whereas developing youngsters is by it's nature long-term.

What we need is an owner who understands that and hires people who are able to implement that. In the current game it's hard for a coach to be the one who implements that which is why I don't think Conte will. 

 

[bola]

The problem is you're asking coaches to put their jobs on the line to serve long-term benefits that they probably won't be around to reap because we dismiss coaches so often. Roman has judged coaches on short-term goals whereas developing youngsters is by it's nature long-term.

What we need is an owner who understands that and hires people who are able to implement that. In the current game it's hard for a coach to be the one who implements that which is why I don't think Conte will. 

It's true to some certain extent but surely no excuse not to play the youngsters when the game was already dead or in the so called lesser games? and what about the game at capital 1 cup? surely you wouldn't think roman would get mad over that cup, would you?

 

[g3.7]

We've done this bit already. I agree.

However I don't think his hiring of emenalo impinges on the managers ability to play young players one iota. If anything his tenure has coincided with the best young players we've produced under abramovich.

The only thing I think needs to change is that abramovich shows patience and the manager shows a desire to play the kids.

Only ancelotti has shown a real interest in playing the kids out of all his appointments and only Jose in his second spell was afforded any kind of patience.

Time will tell...

 

[ShedEnder91]

We've done this bit already. I agree.

However I don't think his hiring of emenalo impinges on the managers ability to play young players one iota. If anything his tenure has coincided with the best young players we've produced under abramovich.

The only thing I think needs to change is that abramovich shows patience and the manager shows a desire to play the kids.

Only ancelotti has shown a real interest in playing the kids out of all his appointments and only Jose in his second spell was afforded any kind of patience.

Time will tell...

I think you're mostly right. Roman has to make a commitment to developing youngsters, like A**x, Barca and United did at various points in their history, and then he has to hire someone qualified to run the club's football interests. Not his old mate Avram and not his old mate Avram's young mate - someone with a proven track record, and ideally someone who knows this league and this club (that's a hard ask).

Like you say, time will tell.

 

[g3.7]

mmm.

let me ask you a direct yes or no question:

do you think emenalo being in place as the club's technical director precludes (or has precluded) the first team coach / manager from giving a chance (or chances) to any of the young players the club has produced or signed as teenagers?

 

[Xfaxtor]

Personally I think Emenalo has done a good job. Dont really give two bobs about were he came from or how he got here. Id much rather have him then someone like Ed Woodward.

 

[TheChelseaBlues]

He oversees all youth level in his role as

Emenalo is involved in loan decisions for sure. He's not involved in the actual coaching though and he's not picking the first team. He has zero direct influence on whether youngsters are getting opportunities at Chelsea or not.

It's a very simplistic view to blame a single person for the failure to integrate academy players to the main squad. Sure, Emenalo has to bear some responsibility but it's not all him, far from it.

Zero influence over the first team is absolute nonsense. He's as much to blame for this issue as any one person at the club is. I dont think hes the only one but he certainly bears some of the responsibility

 

[ShedEnder91]

mmm.

let me ask you a direct yes or no question:

do you think emenalo being in place as the club's technical director precludes (or has precluded) the first team coach / manager from giving a chance (or chances) to any of the young players the club has produced or signed as teenagers?

I think he's symptomatic of the larger issues that do. Feel free to jump on that not being a simple yes or no but neither one of us is given to such brevity or simplicity.

Personally I think Emenalo has done a good job. Dont really give two bobs about were he came from or how he got here. Id much rather have him then someone like Ed Woodward.

So no academy products brought through in half a decade is a good return? Not entirely his fault but imagine what could be done with all our resources if we had a structure in place to take advantage of them.

Just imagine seeing players you've supported at youth level becoming legends for the next generation of supporters. I had that under JT (and Jon Harley, Jody, Mark Nicholls, Paul Hughes, Sammy DB) and it's truly special in sport.

 

[Teritus]

Chalobah to Forest under Billy Davies was a mistake. The loan to Burnley was also a mistake. Basically anything after Watford was either a bad loan or a half-arsed attempt to fix a bad loan. Napoli was just laughable.

Delac who cares?

Wallace to Inter was stupid but that was the player's fault allegedly.

Hazard, Courtois, De Bruyne and Traore aren't Academy products.

Christensen, Baker and Solanke are 'wait and sees' because two of them are probably leaving Vitesse to go somewhere else and that is the decisive loan, where we usually f**k up.

None of this changes the fact that in Roman's time here (and Emanlo's) we've not developed a single Academy player into a first-team player. It's a problem.

Not to interrupt the discussion but the style of some of your posts has started to become a little bit reminiscent of a former poster (or rather a current poster in exile) Davey Baby. Nothing else to it, and it's probably nothing more than a coincidence but just something I observed.