Big Sam Hired n Fired

[big blue]

The England U19s are currently 2-0 down to Italy in the Euro U19 Semi Final. Italy have just had a goal disallowed.

Just realised this tournament taking place!

The free kick for their second was very very harsh. Missed the pen decision in the 1st half. England looked the better side tbh. Just didnt take their chances.

 

[offside]

Some good old fashioned gumption is needed, and I think Big Sam will take this group of players further in the World Cup than we have ever got in the last 10 years.

I think people should look more at the qualitative showing than they currently do, instead of focusing only on progression in a tournament.

A basic summary of the 2010 World Cup appears similar to 2016: second place in the group, went out in the round of 16.

There was a world of difference qualitatively, however, despite the same results on paper. In 2010 England went out to Germany in a game that could have turned out very differently if not for referee incompetence so shocking that it led to the widespread implementation of goal line technology.

In contrast, in 2016 England went out to Iceland with a performance that would have lost to a League Two side.

Under Big Sam England may not get any further depending on the draw and other factors outside their control. If they are drawn into a group of death, maybe they'll go out at the group stage. If they make it out of the group, the round of 16 at the World Cup is a brutal cut, and the quarterfinals just as bad if not more so.

But hopefully if/when they go out they'll do it having given everything for the cause.

I hope the nation will be prouder of them if they go out at the group stage against Germany, France, and Argentina showing the passion that the United States did against Belgium at the last World Cup for example, than going out in the knockout stage with a pathetic performance against Iceland.

 

[Englishman]

I actually quite like Allardyce. He's a capable manager and a bit underrated if anything. Moyes used to get tons of plaudits for the job he did at Everton yet Allardyce had Bolton, historically a smaller and less wealthy club, punching well above their weight (top 8 four years running). Look how Bolton have plummetted since he left.

Will he win us the World Cup? I doubt it. But then Pep Guardiola wouldn't win us the World Cup either. I reckon he'll do a decent job though. He might even get us to beat Iceland.

 

[charierre]

The only suitable candidate for the job at present. Sam at least has the passion we demand from the national team boss and I fully expect to see the team he sends out busting a gut for us. Time will tell if his no nonsense approach will work on the international scene, can he do any worse than his predecessor? So he gets my vote, as for hiring a German for the job, absolutely no way.

 

[just]

Fat Sam's finest hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ZOl3v49R0

I was at that game. Eclipsed only by the League Cup turnaround at Hillsborough. I was at that one too.As for Big fat Sam I am not inspired by the choice. But as others have pointed out who else is there that is actually any good and wants the job?

He will go up in my estimation somewhat if he takes the Captaincy off Rooney. And if he has the balls to tell him his international days are over he will be making a decent start before a ball is kicked.

Not holding my breath though.

 

[WeatherMan]

Is there really any need to call him  ' Big Fat Sam '    What's that all about ? 

I get the FSW tag for you know who because I think it's widely accepted by most Chelsea fans he was reviled and disliked by the majority of us and with good reason, but come on. I think Mr Allardyce deserves a bit more respect.

I find it hard to disagree with some of the current thinking that Sam Allardyce is an almost perfect fit for where England are right now as an International team. Mid table at best, quite possibly bordering on relegation fodder or worse still, a league below. Allardyce is a Manager who has been in charge of teams at a similar level for a good many years now, and his overall record at that level is not too bad at all. I doubt very much a team under him would collapse so pathetically as we did against Iceland.

If not Allardyce, then who were the options ?  Some of the best Managers/ Coaches in the world are either already in, or just about to begin their new jobs in the Premier League this season, that's immediately ruled them out.  Eddie Howe ?  Give the guy a break, he is just embarking on his very promising career and it's far too early for him to risk wrecking it by taking on a seemingly thankless job.

I really can't see who else might be better suited to the job to be honest.  Good luck Sam, you are going to need it.

 

[CFCCAN]

Wish him luck especially with the suits doing all the controlling in the background......still it says a lot about the state of English Football if Sam is the best we can offer up to the World     All we've done since 1970 is try and copy every other winning side and failed miserably and in doing so have lost our identity in the process.  The talent has always been there...it's just been mismanaged and stifled. 

 

[Blue Exile]

I like Sam, one thing guaranteed is he'll be decisive.

Unlike Roy who didn't know his best 11 or how to line them up either.

 

[offside]

The talent has always been there...it's just been mismanaged and stifled.

How much do you think is due to mismanagement and players being stifled as opposed to player psychology (egos, selfishness, passion, attitude, performing under pressure, etc)? I don't know if you can lay overwhelming blame on the managers. The two are admittedly connected. The manager selects the players after all, and part of his job is to manage player psychology. I'm also not sure whether I agree that the player skill - I prefer the word skill over talent because I think of talent as something innate that needs to be developed into skill - has always been there to win titles.

I mention that because I've seen people complain about Allardyce not having a record of winning trophies, and appointing him won't bring trophies. Not on this board, but if you look at Redcafe or Bluemoon, there are a lot of those comments.

Would England win trophies with anyone unless they're unusually lucky à la Greece 2004?

Certainly they have enough to beat Iceland, but I don't think they even have as much collective skill as Belgium.

People talk about how Portugal were weak winners. Are they weaker than England? I can see an argument both ways for that.

Looking at the winning teams of the last decade, every one except maybe Portugal 2016 have had more collective skill than the England team at that time. Italy 2006, Spain 2008-2012, Germany 2014. I'd say that most runners up also had more collective skill. France 2016, Argentina 2014, etc.

Perhaps expecting England to be able to go all the way is unrealistic. Winning a title would be a massive overachievement and would require tremendous luck.

 

[offside]

He's officially signed the contract. Sammy Lee, whom he worked with at Bolton, has been hired as assistant.

I expect Sunderland to announce Moyes soon. There has been speculation that Bruce's departure from Hull might cause Sunderland to reconsider, but I don't see that happening.

No idea how true this is, reports are that the Hull owner told Bruce that he could only sign free agents. They have something like 13 fit squad members. With that kind of owner, I can't imagine any manager wanting the job.

 

[Huttsey]

It's an appointment that shows where England really are right now; a lower tier, second rate side.

I actually think it's a good appointment. It's no secret that he's wanted the England job for years and his style of play may just work. I expect England to be a side that's hard to beat, much like Portugal at the Euro's (but minus a superstar player like Ronaldo).

 

[offside]

It's an appointment that shows where England really are right now; a lower tier, second rate side.

I think England are in the second tier of international football on paper, but their results have been below the second tier.

Countries I would consider 1st tier on paper, not necessarily actual results. In other words, on paper they'd expected to beat just about anyone.

Argentina

Belgium

France

Germany

Spain

Based on this list, Belgium have been major underachievers and Spain lately as well.

2nd tier on paper. Beating teams in the above list would be an overachievement, and losing to teams in the lower lists would be an underachievement.

Lots of underachievers here. Some of them underachieve so much that they don't seem to be in the second tier on paper until you go through their lineup and see how many top players there are.

Brazil (they've gone to sh*t and are no longer 1st tier on paper. Neymar is their only real quality player)

Chile

Croatia

England

Italy

Netherlands

Portugal

Switzerland

Uruguay

This is off the top of my head, and I'm sure I'm missing some. I'm also sure you'll disagree with some of the classifications.

Below the second tier, there are plenty of countries that consistently overachieve and can beat second tier teams. Some of them overachieve so much that intuitively they don't seem to be in as low a tier until you go through their lineup and see how few quality players they have. I would say Colombia and Greece are two examples.

But due to the quality gap, they have trouble beating 1st tier teams, even underachieving 1st tier teams.

Through random factors and good/bad days, beating/losing to teams of 1 tier higher/lower aren't big upsets.

The problem with England, and they are definitely not the only ones in the top two tiers, is that they lose to teams 2 or more tiers below them. Sometimes much more below them.

 

[offside]

Interesting question: Who is the best player in the England squad? Not in terms of tournament performance, but overall.

It seems to me that, except for Iceland who got destroyed by France in possibly the most lopsided game in the tournament, all the quarterfinalists (ie made it farther than England) had at least one player clearly superior to whoever is the best English player, ignoring positions (not comparing players of the same position but rather overall player quality).

Even if the player didn't do well, such as Lewandowski, perhaps their mere presence imparted some structure and confidence, I don't know.

Belgium: Hazard, maybe de Bruyne and Courtois

France: Pogba, maybe Griezmann and Lloris

Germany: several

Italy: Buffon

Poland: Lewandowski

Portugal: Ronaldo, Pepe

Wales: Bale

 

[just]

Is there really any need to call him  ' Big Fat Sam '    What's that all about ? 

I get the FSW tag for you know who because I think it's widely accepted by most Chelsea fans he was reviled and disliked by the majority of us and with good reason, but come on. I think Mr Allardyce deserves a bit more respect.

I find it hard to disagree with some of the current thinking that Sam Allardyce is an almost perfect fit for where England are right now as an International team. Mid table at best, quite possibly bordering on relegation fodder or worse still, a league below. Allardyce is a Manager who has been in charge of teams at a similar level for a good many years now, and his overall record at that level is not too bad at all. I doubt very much a team under him would collapse so pathetically as we did against Iceland.

If not Allardyce, then who were the options ?  Some of the best Managers/ Coaches in the world are either already in, or just about to begin their new jobs in the Premier League this season, that's immediately ruled them out.  Eddie Howe ?  Give the guy a break, he is just embarking on his very promising career and it's far too early for him to risk wrecking it by taking on a seemingly thankless job.

I really can't see who else might be better suited to the job to be honest.  Good luck Sam, you are going to need it.

Big Slim Sam? Hardly.

Sammy Lee, Mike Bassett. Does it really make a difference?

If we are going down the back to basics road and looking for someone to come in and really shake the sh*t out of the tree Roy "Mental" Keane would have got my vote. Losing against teams like Iceland wouldn't be an option with Mr Mad Eye. The players would be texting their mums to come and collect them rather than go back in the changing room to face him.

 

[Adam]

Wish it was Pards tbqfhwy.

 

[charierre]

Big Slim Sam? Hardly.

Sammy Lee, Mike Bassett. Does it really make a difference?

If we are going down the back to basics road and looking for someone to come in and really shake the sh*t out of the tree Roy "Mental" Keane would have got my vote. Losing against teams like Iceland wouldn't be an option with Mr Mad Eye. The players would be texting their mums to come and collect them rather than go back in the changing room to face him.

I'm hoping Sam can instill into the players the sense of pride in their performance in the same way that Roy would. As for Keane as manager , no way, he isn't English. Personally I like the national team to be representive of England, if we aren't good enough so be it.

 

[luckywerthers]

I can remember seeing a photo of the England team in training, Hodgson was talking to them and the players were looking at the clouds at their boots, every where but at their coach. I think that those days are now long gone.

 

[Jezz]

Far from the worst appointment, and I think he will do a better job than Roy Hodgson anyway.

 

[offside]

If we are going down the back to basics road and looking for someone to come in and really shake the sh*t out of the tree Roy "Mental" Keane would have got my vote. Losing against teams like Iceland wouldn't be an option with Mr Mad Eye. The players would be texting their mums to come and collect them rather than go back in the changing room to face him.

As for Keane as manager , no way, he isn't English. Personally I like the national team to be representive of England, if we aren't good enough so be it.

Keane is a spoiled prick of the highest order and says and does things that are worse than anything Hoddle could have gotten sacked for. I'm counting down the days until Keane gets upset at the FAI and goes on strike again, this time as a coach. In fairness, the FAI is a really incompetent frustrating group. Keane coaching England would go down even worse in Ireland than England because of the history of the two countries.

On the plus side, hopefully it would end Eamon Dunphy's w**kfests over Keane.

 

[Zola]

Fair play to Big Sam, he couldn't have come at a better time.

Expectations will be firmly in the dirt post Iceland, any progress will be seen as an achievement.