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I'm suprised people think Shevchenko played really well.
He was okay, but certainly no Drogba.
He was okay, but certainly no Drogba.
Chelsea (h) V Sunderland
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Tim W
Go ahead and play for keeps
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I thought he was crap as usual.
Much like the performance in general, okay we won, but with that much ball we didn't stretch their defence/keeper that much and had Keane not taken off Jones they might have sneaked a point. Saying that maybe they didn't go full out because of the CL match midweek and the Arse game, but I'm not so sure.
Much like the performance in general, okay we won, but with that much ball we didn't stretch their defence/keeper that much and had Keane not taken off Jones they might have sneaked a point. Saying that maybe they didn't go full out because of the CL match midweek and the Arse game, but I'm not so sure.
Got to agree with Tim but it was a really poor show at the weekend. There we spells where Sunderland dragged us down to their level and we didn't really impose ourself on the game.
The highlights of the game, with us hitting the woodwork twice, some might argue it should have been 4-0, but it certainly wasn't a 4-0 performance.
We had alot of the ball, and Sunderland were truely awful, one of the worst sides I've seen us play this season, or worst performance by one anyway. But we never did anything with it. It wasn't as controlled as a Jose performance, but a Jose-esq performance all the same.
Sheva was average at best, he adjusted his body well for the goal which was a 5 yard header into an empty net, and went round one of their defenders with a great touch in the corner of the MH/West stand late in the game, but apart from that his positioning was all over the place. It's OK pulling wide or dropping deep to collect the ball, but it left no-one in the box! He still can't run, and sometimes it's painful watching this one-time great get caught up and lose the ball because he just isn't quick enough. In the last 2 games he's started we've played Derby and Sunderland and he's scored 1 goal, not a great return against relegation fodder, Arsenal and Liverpool next - without Drogba we'll just have to see what he can do, but I think we already know deep down.
Grant made the right changes at the right time's but I found playing SWP inside and Cole on the wing a little strange.
I'm still waiting for the enteraining football he keeps harping on about because it should have been easy to impose against Derby and Sunderland, the premiership whipping boys, but it just hasn't materialised.
Saturday was one of the worst games I've seen at the bridge for a while. The crowd began to entertain themselves in the 2nd half and raised the atmosphere to encourage the players, it reminded me of Chelsea from a few years back. Not sure if a 'return to the shed' was on for this game but they were much better than they were against West Ham. I dunno, perhaps it's only the untrendy games proper fans can get their hands on nowdays, or the game just wasn't entertaining enough for those who went out in blankets of rain to watch it.
Grants honeymoon is over, we're in a league where sides like Derby, Sunderland, Wigan, and the like make up the numbers really. Our season will be decided when we meet the big boys, with Arsenal and Liverpool coming up we'll see what Avrams 'new style' is made of, but if we play like we did at the weekend, it won't be pleasing on the eye for Chelsea fans.
Just saying what I saw.
BLUENUT
The highlights of the game, with us hitting the woodwork twice, some might argue it should have been 4-0, but it certainly wasn't a 4-0 performance.
We had alot of the ball, and Sunderland were truely awful, one of the worst sides I've seen us play this season, or worst performance by one anyway. But we never did anything with it. It wasn't as controlled as a Jose performance, but a Jose-esq performance all the same.
Sheva was average at best, he adjusted his body well for the goal which was a 5 yard header into an empty net, and went round one of their defenders with a great touch in the corner of the MH/West stand late in the game, but apart from that his positioning was all over the place. It's OK pulling wide or dropping deep to collect the ball, but it left no-one in the box! He still can't run, and sometimes it's painful watching this one-time great get caught up and lose the ball because he just isn't quick enough. In the last 2 games he's started we've played Derby and Sunderland and he's scored 1 goal, not a great return against relegation fodder, Arsenal and Liverpool next - without Drogba we'll just have to see what he can do, but I think we already know deep down.
Grant made the right changes at the right time's but I found playing SWP inside and Cole on the wing a little strange.
I'm still waiting for the enteraining football he keeps harping on about because it should have been easy to impose against Derby and Sunderland, the premiership whipping boys, but it just hasn't materialised.
Saturday was one of the worst games I've seen at the bridge for a while. The crowd began to entertain themselves in the 2nd half and raised the atmosphere to encourage the players, it reminded me of Chelsea from a few years back. Not sure if a 'return to the shed' was on for this game but they were much better than they were against West Ham. I dunno, perhaps it's only the untrendy games proper fans can get their hands on nowdays, or the game just wasn't entertaining enough for those who went out in blankets of rain to watch it.
Grants honeymoon is over, we're in a league where sides like Derby, Sunderland, Wigan, and the like make up the numbers really. Our season will be decided when we meet the big boys, with Arsenal and Liverpool coming up we'll see what Avrams 'new style' is made of, but if we play like we did at the weekend, it won't be pleasing on the eye for Chelsea fans.
Just saying what I saw.
BLUENUT
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Bluenut
The problem with this Grant 'style' that you seem to expect him to be able to flick a few switches and deliver is that
a) it doesn't happen that quickly and
B) we don't currently have the players for it
Jose does not, and has not, built a squad that is designed to play with style. We have one player who can be classified as a creative player and even he has spent the last three seasons being slowly taught to cut it out of his game. I'm not sure how you expect Grant, or anyone, to turn that round in a matter of a couple of months.
A management team of Zola, Pele, Platini, and Carlton Palmer would find it difficult to get a huge amount of style out of a midfield made up of Mikel, Lampard and Essien. It is a midfield that strangles teams and does it effectively but it will never be a midfield that is pleasing on the eye.
The problem with this Grant 'style' that you seem to expect him to be able to flick a few switches and deliver is that
a) it doesn't happen that quickly and
B) we don't currently have the players for it
Jose does not, and has not, built a squad that is designed to play with style. We have one player who can be classified as a creative player and even he has spent the last three seasons being slowly taught to cut it out of his game. I'm not sure how you expect Grant, or anyone, to turn that round in a matter of a couple of months.
A management team of Zola, Pele, Platini, and Carlton Palmer would find it difficult to get a huge amount of style out of a midfield made up of Mikel, Lampard and Essien. It is a midfield that strangles teams and does it effectively but it will never be a midfield that is pleasing on the eye.
Then why keep publically claiming we have a new style?
I find it rather emabrassing especially after watcing us on Saturday! Anyone who knows tha game knows it's a load of bo**ocks.
Yes, Jose can be blamed for the current quality of the squad but he was given no money in the last 2 transfer windows, and I don't really know who signed the centre forward we had on Saturday who cost £30m and is on £130k per week. I guess everyone has their own opinion on that. Who really signs the players now though? Arnesen, Grant, kenyon, Cate, Clarke or the chairman?!?! Who really know's???
Grant has been at the club almost a year. He has been in charge from the start of the season, apart from the 1st few games. He hasn't changed the style, he has copied Jose where he can or made it patter-cake football, ala Glenn Hoddle. We'll see in the long-run but he's done nothing to prove there is a new style he's been employed to introduce.
As long as we keep winning it's suits, but who have we played? 6-0 v Man City I'm starting to think was a fluke.
The feeling at the game from the crowd on Saturday wasn't the most confident, especially at 1-0 after about 65-70 mins. A penalty sealed the game, not the free flowing silky football the new man has been employed to enforce.
The bridge isn't the confident place it was a few month ago.
Just going by what I saw and felt saturday.
I could have been alone, but the reaction of the shed and MH stand after around the 60 min mark where they found their voice goes to show I wasn't on my own thinking the players needed a lift.
The crowd provided it,they were there to be counted when it mattered and got behind us when we really needed it.
I find it rather emabrassing especially after watcing us on Saturday! Anyone who knows tha game knows it's a load of bo**ocks.
Yes, Jose can be blamed for the current quality of the squad but he was given no money in the last 2 transfer windows, and I don't really know who signed the centre forward we had on Saturday who cost £30m and is on £130k per week. I guess everyone has their own opinion on that. Who really signs the players now though? Arnesen, Grant, kenyon, Cate, Clarke or the chairman?!?! Who really know's???
Grant has been at the club almost a year. He has been in charge from the start of the season, apart from the 1st few games. He hasn't changed the style, he has copied Jose where he can or made it patter-cake football, ala Glenn Hoddle. We'll see in the long-run but he's done nothing to prove there is a new style he's been employed to introduce.
As long as we keep winning it's suits, but who have we played? 6-0 v Man City I'm starting to think was a fluke.
The feeling at the game from the crowd on Saturday wasn't the most confident, especially at 1-0 after about 65-70 mins. A penalty sealed the game, not the free flowing silky football the new man has been employed to enforce.
The bridge isn't the confident place it was a few month ago.
Just going by what I saw and felt saturday.
I could have been alone, but the reaction of the shed and MH stand after around the 60 min mark where they found their voice goes to show I wasn't on my own thinking the players needed a lift.
The crowd provided it,they were there to be counted when it mattered and got behind us when we really needed it.
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How many times has he claimed there is a new style right now?
I have heard him mention once that we are looking to play a different way. now I accept may have missed him say it a second time but the way you seem to be putting it he is saying it every time he checks his watch to see what time it is.
I haven't actually heard him say we are playing a new style right now.
I actually think the style has changes albeit ever so slightly since Grant took over. I think our fullbacks are supporting the wingers (or what wingers we have) more and I think Frank is being allowed more freedom however unfortunatelty Frank is not playing well just now. It is ever so slightly though and I don't expect it to change ever so much with the current squad we have. I don't buy into the Jose didn't have money to spend in the transfer window as an excuse for the fact that this current squad is not equipped to play expansive football. Jose was not an expansive football manager, with all the money in the world at his disposal he built the midfield we have now and he replaced creativity with work ethic.
That isn't necessarily a critisism of Jose, that was just his way and it was a succesful way and thus all credit to him. However we are now under a different manager and he has said he wants to see a different style of football (although he hasn't said it to the extent you claim he has) and he, quite rightly, should be judged against that claim however that judgement should surely be withheld until he has had the opportunity to actually mould the style.
This squad has very little creativity and very little craft - it, quite frankly, is close to impossible to get it playing in the manner you seem to expect Grant to produce at the moment. Once Grant has had the chance to bring in players of his choosing (which will probably not be till next summer) then the extent to which we can play a different style of football is very limited.
I have heard him mention once that we are looking to play a different way. now I accept may have missed him say it a second time but the way you seem to be putting it he is saying it every time he checks his watch to see what time it is.
I haven't actually heard him say we are playing a new style right now.
I actually think the style has changes albeit ever so slightly since Grant took over. I think our fullbacks are supporting the wingers (or what wingers we have) more and I think Frank is being allowed more freedom however unfortunatelty Frank is not playing well just now. It is ever so slightly though and I don't expect it to change ever so much with the current squad we have. I don't buy into the Jose didn't have money to spend in the transfer window as an excuse for the fact that this current squad is not equipped to play expansive football. Jose was not an expansive football manager, with all the money in the world at his disposal he built the midfield we have now and he replaced creativity with work ethic.
That isn't necessarily a critisism of Jose, that was just his way and it was a succesful way and thus all credit to him. However we are now under a different manager and he has said he wants to see a different style of football (although he hasn't said it to the extent you claim he has) and he, quite rightly, should be judged against that claim however that judgement should surely be withheld until he has had the opportunity to actually mould the style.
This squad has very little creativity and very little craft - it, quite frankly, is close to impossible to get it playing in the manner you seem to expect Grant to produce at the moment. Once Grant has had the chance to bring in players of his choosing (which will probably not be till next summer) then the extent to which we can play a different style of football is very limited.
The Moos
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I do hope Grant isn't permanent but it appears like he really is here to stay. With that said I hope that he can do what he says he wants to do and turn us into an entertaining team. Just as long as that doesn't mean we will let go of the defence (like Barca and Real did before) I'm okay.
One thing that irritates me however is every time Grant says that we played really well even though we clearly were crap. Like this weekend. We weren't good. Far from it really. Still that fat f*ck says that we were really good and could have scored more goals. He confuses possession of the ball with creating chances. Do we really want a manager like that? I don't.
One thing that irritates me however is every time Grant says that we played really well even though we clearly were crap. Like this weekend. We weren't good. Far from it really. Still that fat f*ck says that we were really good and could have scored more goals. He confuses possession of the ball with creating chances. Do we really want a manager like that? I don't.
Loz,
I know I've been given the label of doom and gloom monger of the site, but Saturday was dire mate, it really was. Not sure if the rotten hangover I was supporting helped from my firms Xmas party the night before, or the awful weather, but I wasn't alone in how I felt. We've been sold the line that Avi is hear to entertain, but it's the 1st game for years I felt like leaving early, about 15 mins early in fact, after the 2nd goal. Haven't left before the final whistle for years, and I didn't this weekend.
We only won the game because Sunderland were that bad. Honestly! When they said they were going to show the 1st half highlights at HT a fella behind me said, 'at least it won't fu**ing last long' - we laughed!!
It's hard to knock Avram due to the results he has produced. But he wasn't employed to get results was he? the last fella already had that in the bag. He was employed to take us in a new direction, give us a new style and enterain us. Thats the clubs line not mine!
Playing SWP as a inside forward/midfielder and Cole as a winger wasn't the best of decisions. Cole didn't get round his defender once (lacks the pace to be a winger) and SWP hasn't got the football brain Cole has to contribue enough in the middle.
He has got the tools, and formations to play with but has chose to mirror the previous managers. At the end of the game at 2-0 he brought on Sidwell for J Cole and played Sheva as a left winger, why not give Bridge (one of our best crossers of the ball) 10 mins to play infront of Cole. He'd previously brought Pizzaro on and took away anyone who was going to cross it to him.
He could have started with Sheva and Pizzaro up front. We're without Drogba until he comes back from the ANC, I'd have liked to have a looked at them as a pair - against a side we should really beat anyway. There are other formations he COULD play, but has chose to select the one that brought us 2 titles.
BTW I think Essien, Makalele and Lampard are one of the best midfield 3's in the world. I wouldn't swap 'em for anyone, and Mikel has been MOTM for most of our last few games so I don't know who'd you replace them with.
Although Maka and Essien didn't play at the weekend, they were replaced by Mikel and SWP - with Cole on the wing, although he scored playing 'inside' against WH last week once Avi changed it!?!
I must admit I did like the previous manager, but he's gone and we must move on, but I can't bring myself to get as carried away as Chippy with a bloke who's football pedigree is as questionable as Grant's.
I know I've been given the label of doom and gloom monger of the site, but Saturday was dire mate, it really was. Not sure if the rotten hangover I was supporting helped from my firms Xmas party the night before, or the awful weather, but I wasn't alone in how I felt. We've been sold the line that Avi is hear to entertain, but it's the 1st game for years I felt like leaving early, about 15 mins early in fact, after the 2nd goal. Haven't left before the final whistle for years, and I didn't this weekend.
We only won the game because Sunderland were that bad. Honestly! When they said they were going to show the 1st half highlights at HT a fella behind me said, 'at least it won't fu**ing last long' - we laughed!!
It's hard to knock Avram due to the results he has produced. But he wasn't employed to get results was he? the last fella already had that in the bag. He was employed to take us in a new direction, give us a new style and enterain us. Thats the clubs line not mine!
Playing SWP as a inside forward/midfielder and Cole as a winger wasn't the best of decisions. Cole didn't get round his defender once (lacks the pace to be a winger) and SWP hasn't got the football brain Cole has to contribue enough in the middle.
He has got the tools, and formations to play with but has chose to mirror the previous managers. At the end of the game at 2-0 he brought on Sidwell for J Cole and played Sheva as a left winger, why not give Bridge (one of our best crossers of the ball) 10 mins to play infront of Cole. He'd previously brought Pizzaro on and took away anyone who was going to cross it to him.
He could have started with Sheva and Pizzaro up front. We're without Drogba until he comes back from the ANC, I'd have liked to have a looked at them as a pair - against a side we should really beat anyway. There are other formations he COULD play, but has chose to select the one that brought us 2 titles.
BTW I think Essien, Makalele and Lampard are one of the best midfield 3's in the world. I wouldn't swap 'em for anyone, and Mikel has been MOTM for most of our last few games so I don't know who'd you replace them with.
Although Maka and Essien didn't play at the weekend, they were replaced by Mikel and SWP - with Cole on the wing, although he scored playing 'inside' against WH last week once Avi changed it!?!
I must admit I did like the previous manager, but he's gone and we must move on, but I can't bring myself to get as carried away as Chippy with a bloke who's football pedigree is as questionable as Grant's.
Tim W
Go ahead and play for keeps
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I'm with Bluenut on this one, I 've seen Grant on Chelsea TV/press conferences several times saying he's the man for entertaining football. Never once has he said he doesn't have the players to play his style of football. I wasn't at the game on Saturday (did watch it on TV) but was at both the West Ham and Everton games and the football we played was average to say the least. We are playing no different than we did under JM, sideways, sideways, sideways and a bit more sideways; the only difference I see is we have to wait an extra 10-15 minutes before he makes any changes.
Ok let's wait and see what happens in January, I'm sure Roman will give him an open cheque book, it'll be his chance to make his mark, but I for one am not holding my breath.
Ok let's wait and see what happens in January, I'm sure Roman will give him an open cheque book, it'll be his chance to make his mark, but I for one am not holding my breath.
abramovich
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I was trying hard to stay way from this argument for quite some time but sometimes i just can't help it.
Grant has a squad he didn't assemble and had no time to prepare for the season. He tries to change things slowly because he can't afford to throw away the season. This change takes time and he needs different kind of players to implement this.
Add to it all the long term injuries to the key players we have picked up along the way(and it's only December), recent suspensions to Mikel and Essien, constant breaks due to international call ups etc etc Considering all the obstacles we haven't done too badly,qualified in Europe with game in hand and still pretty much in the race for the big one at home.
Grant has a squad he didn't assemble and had no time to prepare for the season. He tries to change things slowly because he can't afford to throw away the season. This change takes time and he needs different kind of players to implement this.
Add to it all the long term injuries to the key players we have picked up along the way(and it's only December), recent suspensions to Mikel and Essien, constant breaks due to international call ups etc etc Considering all the obstacles we haven't done too badly,qualified in Europe with game in hand and still pretty much in the race for the big one at home.
ethicalstrategy
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Pretty much every time I hear him interviewed he comes out with something along the lines of:
We are playing more attractive football: We are trying to play football the right way: we had to improve because we were poor before he came in: we had a terrible start to the season.
After the match on Saturday he said
"we played good" - he obviously wasn't at the same match as I was
"what we did after not a good start (to the season) - even a bad start, to play good football, to improve our game....."
Watch his press conference.
We were poor on Saturday. We started well for 10 mins but after that really were pretty clueless. For 15 mins in the second half I was seriously worried that Sunderland would equalise as they dominated possession and we were running around like headless chickens. Fortunately we got the penalty and that killed the game.
I am not complaining that we aren't playing better - particularly because the results are good - but I do get wound up when someone keeps telling me that we are playing well and improving and that they are doing a great job because they have turned a bad situation around when all of that is patent nonsense.
Now if he were to say that his longer term aim was to change our style and that it would take time and that for now we would continue to play as we had been doing until the opportunity was there to develop the new style and new players be brought in who were suited to that. Or if he was to say that of course it is no surprise that we have been doing so well because we had a solid foundation laid down by the previous manager along with a squad of top class international players and that it was his aim is to take that forward and develop it in a more expansive way then I'd respect that.
Alan
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We started off really well and it looked like we'd end up putting 3 or 4 past them. But then in the second half they started to get more of a hold on the game and looked the more likely team to score. Thankfully Lampard put away that penalty and the game was safe.
mad_mac
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Obviously I was not at the game, but I did see it on TV. I agree with what has been said that we were good in the first half, and poor in the second. This is now 3-4 games in a row that we have not played well, but it is 3-4 games in a row that we have taken maximum points, and to me that is all that matters.
remember we lost our most succesful manager this season, and he didn't play the most attractive football. So, it comes down to the question; attractive football over wins? If it is that cut and dry (you can't have both) I am sure we would all take the latter. I don't fully know the role of Top Cate, but I wonder if he is there to inject a bit of flair into our side once we get players and change to a formation more attack minded!
This is a team Grant has had to take over amongst one of the biggest shock sackings/ departures of club and manager in recent memory. Vialli was forced out, yes, but he wasn't as succesful as Jose. I rememeber saying that it is unlikely that we would have a good season this time around with the departure of a manager that tore the dressing room apart; the pres were also writing us off imediately (saying that Grant woulld be Roman's puppet and it was the end of Chelsea's season!). Now, we are back within the top dogs in the prem, and one of the biggest games (despite the man u game the week Jose left) of our season so far in the prem. Personally, I don't care how we get there as long as we are there competing
Scott
remember we lost our most succesful manager this season, and he didn't play the most attractive football. So, it comes down to the question; attractive football over wins? If it is that cut and dry (you can't have both) I am sure we would all take the latter. I don't fully know the role of Top Cate, but I wonder if he is there to inject a bit of flair into our side once we get players and change to a formation more attack minded!
This is a team Grant has had to take over amongst one of the biggest shock sackings/ departures of club and manager in recent memory. Vialli was forced out, yes, but he wasn't as succesful as Jose. I rememeber saying that it is unlikely that we would have a good season this time around with the departure of a manager that tore the dressing room apart; the pres were also writing us off imediately (saying that Grant woulld be Roman's puppet and it was the end of Chelsea's season!). Now, we are back within the top dogs in the prem, and one of the biggest games (despite the man u game the week Jose left) of our season so far in the prem. Personally, I don't care how we get there as long as we are there competing
Scott
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