Matic

[Xfaxtor]

Matic and Kante are both being played incorrectly. If you play both, Matic needs to be holding and Kante box to box. Conte is doing the opposite at the moment.

Really, really dont share that opinion. And honestly, I can find many who do. Matic doesnt have the discipline, the positional awereness or the ability to read the game required to play as a holding mid. Kante does, hes an absolute beast at it. 

Surely with great coaching and belief from the player himself, he should be able to reach that high level consistently again?  If he is unable to maintain that level, which is what we bought him back for, then questions have to be asked about his commitment

As @Nibs said, sometime players just have purple patches of great form. Theres numerous examples of players that has had a season or half a season of excellent play before returning to the norm. For me, Matic has returned to the norm. A lot better then last year, but still an average player

 

[Van Butsen]

Players have purple patches that become the building blocks for them to be better players though.  Have a purple patch, never stop having the purple patch, become a world class player.

I'd at least ask the question about the players commitment and our ability to bring the best out of them if someone were to have a purple patch and then drop off.  It wasn't like a 3 month purple patch either.  When he came mid season he was one of our best to finish the season and the following year was I think, our most important player in the title winning season.  That to me says it's more than a bit of form going his way.  He is capable of being much better and much more consistent.  I remember thinking he'd become the new and improved Yaya. 

 

[All Barco no bite]

I'm still under the impression we need a combative box to box mid, much like the Essien or Ballack could have filled. I think had we got Naingollan in the summer, Matic would be benched straight away.

 

[Rusty-Man]

Really, really dont share that opinion. And honestly, I can find many who do. Matic doesnt have the discipline, the positional awereness or the ability to read the game required to play as a holding mid. Kante does, hes an absolute beast at it. 

As @Nibs said, sometime players just have purple patches of great form. Theres numerous examples of players that has had a season or half a season of excellent play before returning to the norm. For me, Matic has returned to the norm. A lot better then last year, but still an average player

Considering Matic had his best run of form as a pure defensive midfielder with little offensive duties and Kante had his best form as a box to box player running up and down the pitch all day, it makes sense to play them there.

Kante's best attributes are his ability to get up and down the pitch and harrey opposition players. The holding role he plays at the moment shackles those attributes.  I also disagree about Matic. In his best period he showed great positional discipline and reading of the game. He was covering for Fabregas whilst also performing in his own space of play for the title winning season. That was his best attribute, his reading of the game and anticipation to break up play despite his lack of mobility.

 

[PloKoon13]

Considering Matic had his best run of form as a pure defensive midfielder with little offensive duties and Kante had his best form as a box to box player running up and down the pitch all day, it makes sense to play them there.

Nothing in this sentence is true.

 

[Rusty-Man]

Nothing in this sentence is true.

Except it is. Matic played as a holding midfielder in a two man pivoting,  first with Lampard/Luiz/Ramires then with Fabregas. He sat back and shielded the defence and seldom got forward to join attacks. That was when he played his best football for Chelsea in his first year. 

Kante was a box to box player in a two man midfield with Drinkwater as the holding midfielder. He was a big part of Leicesters pressing unit, chasIngleton down offensive players and getting stuck in. He was also one of the main players going forwards, driving the ball forwards on the break. Just watch his individual highlights. The guy got everywhere on the pitch whilst Drinkwater sat in front of the defence. 

 

[PloKoon13]

Except it is. Matic played as a holding midfielder in a two man pivoting,  first with Lampard/Luiz/Ramires then with Fabregas. He sat back and shielded the defence and seldom got forward to join attacks. That was when he played his best football for Chelsea in his first year. 

Kante was a box to box player in a two man midfield with Drinkwater as the holding midfielder. He was a big part of Leicesters pressing unit, chasIngleton down offensive players and getting stuck in. He was also one of the main players going forwards, driving the ball forwards on the break. Just watch his individual highlights. The guy got everywhere on the pitch whilst Drinkwater sat in front of the defence. 

Kanté was not one of Leicester's main players going forwards, and this is speaking as someone who attended every Leicester home game last season. Both he and Drinkwater were holding midfielders; just because Kanté covered a lot of ground doesn't mean he was some sort of Robson-esque box-to-box midfielder. He was a pure defensive midfielder who covered a lot of ground off the ball in a team which was built around attacking directly into space vacated by the other side while in possession. Drinkwater was (and still is) the main conduit of possession for Leicester; Kanté's job was merely to stop other teams getting the ball and to stop them doing anything useful with it when they did.

Matic was the defensive midfielder of a two-man partnership in a team which was built to dominate possession. Against big teams away, yes, he basically played a purely holding role, but generally speaking that wasn't the case. No midfielder in a side constructed in the way ours was could play a purely defensive role; they had to have some responsibility in possession, some impetus to provide to the attack. Matic was (and still is) far, far more adventurous in his passing than Kanté has ever been, and while he's not exactly a Frank Lampard, has more attacking instincts.

Leicester's pressing was, for the most part, designed to disrupt the opponent in possession, to lead them towards playing it safe, which would force them to commit more players forward, and in turn vacate more space in their own half into which Leicester could attack. Ours, again for the most part, was designed to win the ball so we can have a spell in possession ourselves, rather than playing it vertically and immediately going for goal. No player in that system, especially a midfielder could have their responsibilities reduced to purely a holding role.

 

[Rusty-Man]

Kanté was not one of Leicester's main players going forwards, and this is speaking as someone who attended every Leicester home game last season. Both he and Drinkwater were holding midfielders; just because Kanté covered a lot of ground doesn't mean he was some sort of Robson-esque box-to-box midfielder. He was a pure defensive midfielder who covered a lot of ground off the ball in a team which was built around attacking directly into space vacated by the other side while in possession. Drinkwater was (and still is) the main conduit of possession for Leicester; Kanté's job was merely to stop other teams getting the ball and to stop them doing anything useful with it when they did.

Matic was the defensive midfielder of a two-man partnership in a team which was built to dominate possession. Against big teams away, yes, he basically played a purely holding role, but generally speaking that wasn't the case. No midfielder in a side constructed in the way ours was could play a purely defensive role; they had to have some responsibility in possession, some impetus to provide to the attack. Matic was (and still is) far, far more adventurous in his passing than Kanté has ever been, and while he's not exactly a Frank Lampard, has more attacking instincts.

Leicester's pressing was, for the most part, designed to disrupt the opponent in possession, to lead them towards playing it safe, which would force them to commit more players forward, and in turn vacate more space in their own half into which Leicester could attack. Ours, again for the most part, was designed to win the ball so we can have a spell in possession ourselves, rather than playing it vertically and immediately going for goal. No player in that system, especially a midfielder could have their responsibilities reduced to purely a holding role.

There is no such thing as a pure defensive or holding midfielder in a 4-4-2. Both players have to cover too much ground and offer in all phases of the game compared to a three man midfield. Kante was always giving support in attack, drifting out wide to the left and getting forwards. Just watch these 17 minutes and tell me he was a holding midfielder who was unadventurous going forwards:



To me, a holding midfielder is a player who holds his position in front of the defence and screenseldom them when the opposition attack/counter. In a possession side, a holding midfielder is also an out ball for re-circulation of the ball when the team are in possession. Look at Busquets for Barca as the perfect holding midfielder. He sits in front of the defence and shields them from attacks, rarely charging forwards himself. He is also a huge part of Barcelona'so possession game, helping shift the ball from side to side and work space from deep. That was how Matic played for Chelsea and is the job of a holding midfielder in a midfield three.

Kante translating what he did in a midfield two to a midfield 3 would be the box to box player, winning the ball back and charging forwards to support the attack. Kante should not be doing the job that Busquets is doing but rather the job Matic is currently being asked at Chelsea. Vice versa for Matic who is at his best when he can sit in front of the defence and predominantly break up the play and sit as an out ball in possession.  

People compare Kante to Makelele but I always felt he was more akin to Keane. An all rounder midfielder who was a defensive monster.

 

[Xfaxtor]

[SIZE=inherit].  I also disagree about Matic. In his best period he showed great positional discipline and reading of the game. [/SIZE]

I have never seen that personally. Even at his best, he was always all over the shop defensively. Judging from your other posts we arent going to agree much on this topic so Im just gonna move along and agree to dissgree

 

[venom2011]

I have never seen that personally. Even at his best, he was always all over the shop defensively. Judging from your other posts we arent going to agree much on this topic so Im just gonna move along and agree to dissgree

Must have missed the first 20+ months of his return then...

He was exceptional from when he rejoined, until the end of the title-winning season.

 

[PloKoon13]

There is no such thing as a pure defensive or holding midfielder in a 4-4-2.

Did you watch Leicester last season?

One of the running jokes among the stewards was "We have Drinkwater in defensive midfeld and Kanté either side".

Next thing I know you'll be claiming he's an asset at set pieces.

 

[Xfaxtor]

Must have missed the first 20+ months of his return then...

He was exceptional from when he rejoined, until the end of the title-winning season.

Didnt miss anything, his lack of defensive positioning was exploited several times. Its just not sonethibg he posseses. He was dire from around new year and out the year we won the title. Hasnt come close to replicate that form since, not holding my breath it happens any time soon

 

[IliyaKrostin]

Matic and Kante are both being played incorrectly. If you play both, Matic needs to be holding and Kante box to box. Conte is doing the opposite at the moment.

Against Liverpool it worked well for our goal, Matic ran forward with the ball and gave an assist to Costa.

 

[Scott Harris]

Players have purple patches that become the building blocks for them to be better players though.  Have a purple patch, never stop having the purple patch, become a world class player.

I'd at least ask the question about the players commitment and our ability to bring the best out of them if someone were to have a purple patch and then drop off.  It wasn't like a 3 month purple patch either.  When he came mid season he was one of our best to finish the season and the following year was I think, our most important player in the title winning season.  That to me says it's more than a bit of form going his way.  He is capable of being much better and much more consistent.  I remember thinking he'd become the new and improved Yaya. 

I used to think the same as you. I remember saying in this thread a while ago now that Matic could be like Toure at his if he had a better shot on him, he's well off that now though.

 

[bola]

Must have missed the first 20+ months of his return then...

He was exceptional from when he rejoined, until the end of the title-winning season.

he's never been that good in the 1st place, that's like overhyping from your case but that's just my 2 cents.. 

 

[Kante Conte]

I'm surprised to see people saying they think Matic is back to his best this year.

He's certainly improved on last season, but that didn't take much, but I still don't think he's anywhere near the level he was when he was at his peak for us.

There's an obvious improvement, but the whole team has improved but I still don't see him as the first name on the team sheet like he was at his peak with us.

True. He was incredibly good. One of the top two or three performers every game.

 Current level is nothing amazing, but not terrible as some seem to be making out. 

 

[wallosh]

Must have missed the first 20+ months of his return then...

He was exceptional from when he rejoined, until the end of the title-winning season.

His performance dropped since that game against Tothenham

 

[wallosh]

I used to think the same as you. I remember saying in this thread a while ago now that Matic could be like Toure at his if he had a better shot on him, he's well off that now though.

From day one I don't rate him and it never crossed my mind that he can be as good as Toure. I laughed everytime I come to the forum and see people hyping as one of the best in world.
He is just an average player that can do a job for us especially as an option on the bench.
If Conte continue to play him regularly with Kante then I can't see Conte staying long here because I can't see us winning anything with too defensive midfielders

 

[Kante Conte]

From day one I don't rate him and it never crossed my mind that he can be as good as Toure. I laughed everytime I come to the forum and see people hyping as one of the best in world.
He is just an average player that can do a job for us especially as an option on the bench.
If Conte continue to play him regularly with Kante then I can't see Conte staying long here because I can't see us winning anything with too defensive midfielders

Sorry mate, I know it's all about opinions but Matic was top class. Seemed the perfect DM. 

If you didn't rate him from day 1, it would mean you being in the tiniest of minorities. 

@scott Harris, he's regressed in pretty much every way. Always seems slow physically and in making decisions.

It wasn't the case before. He was fairly quick at seeing the (forward and refreshingly so) pass, as well as breaking up play, intercepting, tackling, holding off opponents, winning the midfield battles, occasionally going on those runs through the middle of teams. He was snappier in his play all round.

One of the things I loved about him was his passing. It was usually well weighted, accurate and often quite incisive. 

He just seems very slow these days in comparison, and last season, very weak also. 

 

[wallosh]

Sorry mate, I know it's all about opinions but Matic was top class. Seemed the perfect DM. 
If you didn't rate him from day 1, it would mean you being in the tiniest of minorities. 
@scott Harris, he's regressed in pretty much every way. Always seems slow physically and in making decisions.
It wasn't the case before. He was fairly quick at seeing the (forward and refreshingly so) pass, as well as breaking up play, intercepting, tackling, holding off opponents, winning the midfield battles, occasionally going on those runs through the middle of teams. He was snappier in his play all round.
One of the things I loved about him was his passing. It was usually well weighted, accurate and often quite incisive. 
He just seems very slow these days in comparison, and last season, very weak also. 

Well I know am among the minority (Chelsea fans) who never rated him. And am also aware that if he is about to move to any top 4 teams in England or Spain, the fans of that team won't get that excitement of signing a top class player.
Don't get me wrong I like him, because unlike most people here I never see him as a world class player so I don't expect him to play like one. That's why I rarely slate him when sometimes his bad decisions on the field cost us points in some games. I think he is even a more valuable to us than Oscar.