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The Ukraine Situation / Abramovich

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No, some Dubai fella does.

The Eclipse has been Eclipsed

 
Strange post from inzangi. What the f**k are you talking about. Have you got any idea of our immigration figures. We must be the least racist country in the world.
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It doesn't matter what the immigration figures are, that's merely papering over the cracks. 

You can allow as many people into the country as you want but that won't change the way a society operates. Majority ethnic groups have a tendency to 'gang up' and discriminate against minorities, sometimes more subtly than most would notice. This is basic sociology.

The UK suffers from this particularly badly because it is 'multicultural' on the basis that there are multiple ethnic groups but there is an overwhelming majority in one favor that has a tendency to 'segregate' minorities. This isn't even getting into what is my real axe-to-grind which is the idea that some Britons (UKIP, BNP, EDL, Conservatives) have; that since they used to have the British Empire that somehow entitles them to a moral high ground no matter the situation. 

Ashwinz. Study British history before you call people wrong. 
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I think you need to by the sounds of it. I'm in my second year of a History & International Relations degree and I can tell you that you're flat-out wrong here. The British Empire was EXTREMELY racist in practice but I'll admit it had it's good streaks, such as not squashing the ethnic minorities of the Native American tribes (you have the colonists to thank for that) and letting Maori culture (New Zealand) survive. I don't feel like going into a lecture as I have enough of those each week so I suggest you enter 'British Empire Civilizing Mission' into a search engine and do the research for yourself.

 foreign piss takers maybe someone like yourself who see no problem slagging my country off
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Way to defeat your own argument.

Moi Wrote,

Where do you come from?
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Isn't that the million dollar question... I don't think I have a home country to be honest. I like to think of myself as being a person, an individual, first and foremost before I even consider an ethnic identity. By birth I'm German but since I've constantly been on the move between countries for years before I came here to study at university. I have family in Naples, Boston, Shetland, and Brisbane. I'm here in the UK at the moment but I'm not sure where I'll end up after next year.

 
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^ For someone with a beef about a country being inherently racist, that's a lot of sweeping judgments, crude stereotyping and pigeon-holing you've just done.

 
Englishman said:
^ For someone with a beef about a country being inherently racist, that's a lot of sweeping judgments, crude stereotyping and pigeon-holing you've just done.
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Amazing isn't it, such irony. Oh and he's german. ....hmm. now I'm not sure but I seem to remember something in there history about racism.
 
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Izanangi. (We let the maori culture survive) if we are as racist as you think what culture throughout our history did we destroy? I think it might be a good idea if you go back to your tutor and ask for a refund because he is teaching you wrong things about British history.

 
dkw said:
Amazing isn't it, such irony. Oh and he's german. ....hmm. now I'm not sure but I seem to remember something in there history about racism.
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He never said anywhere that Germans aren't racist... That statement is completely irrelavent, really.

Don't take this personally. No one is saying that you are racist. But you really need to either be deluded or blind to ignore Britain's colonial history which was extremely racist and discriminatory.

 
Chelseaden said:
Ashwinz. Study British history before you call people wrong.
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Amazing... You study British colonial history before telling someone from a country which was oppressed by the British for 200 years to study his own. Indians weren't allowed in the same train compartments as the British. People were mercilessly killed and downtrodden for 200 years before independence. Don't be a f**king idiot.

Allowing Maori culture to survive is no great achievement, treating them as equals is. Historically, the British have never done that in any of their colonies.

 
ashwinv said:
He never said anywhere that Germans aren't racist... That statement is completely irrelavent, really.

Don't take this personally. No one is saying that you are racist. But you really need to either be deluded or blind to ignore Britain's colonial history which was extremely racist and discriminatory.
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You can look at the history of almost any nation and find a period you can claim proves inherent racism. And it's just that, history. To then use that history to claim a nation is racist is moronic.
 
Moi Wrote,

Isn't that the million dollar question... I don't think I have a home country to be honest. I like to think of myself as being a person, an individual, first and foremost before I even consider an ethnic identity. By birth I'm German but since I've constantly been on the move between countries for years before I came here to study at university. I have family in Naples, Boston, Shetland, and Brisbane. I'm here in the UK at the moment but I'm not sure where I'll end up after next year.

So, I owe you a million pounds.  You gave me a full answer - you are a young citizen of the world.

But you did not answer the more important question, which was this:

Can you explain where your in-depth knowledge of Scotland comes from?  I assume you must have gleaned knowledge from somewhere in order to be able so confidently to state that the world needs to see the death of the United Kingdom.

Yes, the British Empire was racist back in the times when most of the map of the world was pink.  So were all the other empire building countries.  That was the social reality of the day.  It is not helpful to constantly harp back to those days.  (not accusing you of that)  The British of today are not responsible for the sins of their ancestors.

​As far as the independence of Scotland is concerned, as an expatriate Scot, I find it depressing that instead of looking forward to greater union with Europe, a section of Scottish society is looking back to a false perception of the romantic past of Scotland.  I am convinced they will screen Braveheart in the cinemas in Scotland the week before the vote, and all these newly enfranchised 16 year olds will be racing to the polls to vote for William Wallace. 

 
Anyway this discussion is beside the point. I think history is important, that's all. It tells us something but not everything. As I said earlier, I have never met a racist britisher and really admire Chelsea for the cosmopolitan preaence within.

 
 
ashwinv said:
He never said anywhere that Germans aren't racist... That statement is completely irrelavent, really.

Don't take this personally. No one is saying that you are racist. But you really need to either be deluded or blind to ignore Britain's colonial history which was extremely racist and discriminatory.
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And this is true of every single civilization on earth, it's just a matter of degree.  Show me a civilization from any period in any part of the world and I'll show you some examples of prejudice, ranging from job discrimination to genocide.  Those Indians the British oppressed, go and read what they did to thousands of Sikhs in the Hindu kush before the British ever arrived.  So enough with the moral pontificating.  Enough with the sly insinuation that we should be feeling some sort of collective guilt for what people were doing hundreds of years ago.  It's incredibly tiresome, in fact it's prejudicial.  

Maybe we should get in on this party and start a guilt trip on the Italians for the Roman conquest of Britain.  I want reparations.  Those f**king Norwegians and their Viking raids in all. 


 
Don't forget the Normans. William the Conqueror committed genocide in the north of England.

 
Haha... Sorry if I implied that but there was no sly or hidden insinuation. Not at all. Honestly, I feel that many Indians are racist but they just haven't had the power or the ambition to do too much about it. In this case I do not need to provide historical anecdotes; I've seen it with my own eyes. It's fine to believe that most races including the british are not racist at all but I am just being honest here, not patriotic.

You know, you are confusing war and conquest with racism. That is not the case. I did not want to allude to the fact that the British invaded and colonized nations but that they treated the locals there very poorly.

As you said, there is evidence of prejudice in every civilization. The magnitude does vary greatly though.

 
Ashwinv. I cant let you get away with that statement. Do you not think britain was oppressed? I dont think the killings in india had anything to do with race. I think the british come under intense pressure from vast sums of people and could'nt handle it. That is my opinion but of course you are more than entitled to yours being from india yourself. But i won't call you a f**king idiot for having your opinion.

 
ashwinv said:
Haha... Sorry if I implied that but there was no sly or hidden insinuation. Not at all. Honestly, I feel that many Indians are racist but they just haven't had the power or the ambition to do too much about it. In this case I do not need to provide historical anecdotes; I've seen it with my own eyes. It's fine to believe that most races including the british are not racist at all but I am just being honest here, not patriotic.

You know, you are confusing war and conquest with racism. That is not the case. I did not want to allude to the fact that the British invaded and colonized nations but that they treated the locals there very poorly.

As you said, there is evidence of prejudice in every civilization. The magnitude does vary greatly though.
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I think what people take issue with is being expected to shoulder the blame for things that happened centuries ago. I never had an empire, nor have I oppressed or enslaved or colonised anyone. At some point you have to move on. The current generation of Brits are no more responsible for the British Empire than present day Germans are for WW2.

 
Chelseaden said:
Ashwinv. I cant let you get away with that statement. Do you not think britain was oppressed? I dont think the killings in india had anything to do with race. I think the british come under intense pressure from vast sums of people and could'nt handle it. That is my opinion but of course you are more than entitled to yours being from india yourself. But i won't call you a f**king idiot for having your opinion.
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Really sorry about that. Shouldn't have said what I did.

I do not think britain was oppressed. Several of the killings and other less extreme forms of discrimination had everything to do with race, but let's leave it here.

I want to make it clear that I am in no way suggesting that people alive today are responsible for the acts of their ancestors. And in no way do they need to feel any guilt. For example, I will readily say that India faces a high degree of religious discrimination. This statement does not reflect badly on me at all neither does it imply that I am responsible for what some of my fellow countrymen do. I do think that there is no problem in acknowledging truths of the past (important to do so, I feel) but want to stress that we are in no way responsible.

Just for a slightly frivolous but authentic take on the British rule in India, I would recommend watching the movie 'Lagaan'. The story is about a cricket match between the British and some Indian farmers. Great watch. Do check it out. It is in Hindi but will be available with subtitles.

Cheers all and I hope I made my point clear.

 
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