Ukraine 0 England 0 - football or insomnia?

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We spend time and money developing Chalobah, Josh, Clifford, etc and then go out and spend 8 million on Van Ginkel without giving our youngsters a single game. Says it all really.

I found it incredible that clubs take youngsters from the likes of Maidstone without parting with a penny. 

(This thread reminds me of the old registry forum kudos to you fellow posters.)
That exactly sums it up for me. 

Van Ginkel may well turn out to be a brilliant signing and player for CFC - dito KDB. But it's a real kick in the bollox for the likes of Chalobah & McEachran who no doubt feel they have done enough to be given an equal chance but looks like they will go out on loan to Championship sides yet again and by next season there will probably be even more arrivals to compete with.

 
That exactly sums it up for me. 

Van Ginkel may well turn out to be a brilliant signing and player for CFC - dito KDB. But it's a real kick in the bollox for the likes of Chalobah & McEachran who no doubt feel they have done enough to be given an equal chance but looks like they will go out on loan to Championship sides yet again and by next season there will probably be even more arrivals to compete with.
This was a point I was going to make as well, I'm all for the foreign signings that are fantastic players, but some of the players brought from overseas are average, these are the players that are holding back the English talent.

I'm not digging these players out, as I do think they are good players but do, Ivanovic, Azpulecueta, Ramieres, Van Ginkel, Kevin De Bruyne, Lukaku really bring anything that couldn't have been found in a young English player? These are all good players, but they're not in the top echeloen in the case of the last 3 they may become great players but at the moment they jury still has to decide.

Now multiply that across the the league and think how many foreign players their are that really are average, I mean Sunderland and Newcastle pretty much have whole teams of very average foreign 'talent'.

As lots have said this is down to the price of young English talent, but for me this is a bit of a cop out, if clubs could develop their own talent then they wouldn't need to pay out a big transfer fee.

For me the Acadamy system doesn't work how can a club take a player from another club for nothing, based purely on status? That is just so wrong.

When I was growing up the real talented players weren't just restricted to playing with their pro club, they played for their school, county, Sunday team and the pro club that they were affiliated to, this brought us more talent than we have now. I believe the reason for this is that the youngster was exposed to more than 1 way of playing and had different coaches to spot that players skill set. Now the clubs are harvesting up all of these younger players, they then can't play for any other team, if the club then decides that a player is not good enough he is kicked back out into the wilderness.

Rickie Lambert is the exception that proves this rule, I believe in the older system of school, county and Sunday football Lambert would have had a career in the top flight from a young age, however he was deemed not good enough in a Liverpool acadamy and ended up playing non-league before getting his break towards the end of his career. If he had been playing school and county football he would have been seen by other scouts and could have been given another chance.

Anyway I've ranted on for far too long, the point I'm making is that the superstar signings are great, the others not so much.

 
Haven't our top teams always been full of foreigners? Today we see sides full of Brazilian/Belgian/Spanish talent in yesteryear it was Scottish/Irish/Welsh. The cream will always rise to the top if its there. A quick look into history will see the 'great' club sides were not built on English talent but a good mix. No one batted an eyelid when Liverpool won the 1986 Fa Cup Final only fielding one englshman at substitute yet the national side reached the quarter finals of the world cup that year, losing controversially to Diego. Its noticable that teams on the continent arent exactly queuing up to take our young talent the other way, maybe we are just going through a lean period? The talent just isnt there, or content to get their adreniine boost playing FIFA or FM instead of emulating their heroes on the street corner.

 
Looking back to eras when foreign imports were much fewer, England didn't really do much better. We had players like palmer and batty to rely on.

 
Haven't our top teams always been full of foreigners? Today we see sides full of Brazilian/Belgian/Spanish talent in yesteryear it was Scottish/Irish/Welsh. The cream will always rise to the top if its there. A quick look into history will see the 'great' club sides were not built on English talent but a good mix. No one batted an eyelid when Liverpool won the 1986 Fa Cup Final only fielding one englshman at substitute yet the national side reached the quarter finals of the world cup that year, losing controversially to Diego. Its noticable that teams on the continent arent exactly queuing up to take our young talent the other way, maybe we are just going through a lean period? The talent just isnt there, or content to get their adreniine boost playing FIFA or FM instead of emulating their heroes on the street corner.
You are right the best players will always rise, however in the current academy system I don't believe that young players are given a chance to develop naturally.

Looking back to eras when foreign imports were much fewer, England didn't really do much better. We had players like palmer and batty to rely on.
But in 1990 and 1996 we made the semi finals of major tournamounts, these days we struggle to get out of the group stages.

 
One of those was on home turf which helped. Inversely we didn't even make tournaments during the 70s and 90s.

 
You are right the best players will always rise, however in the current academy system I don't believe that young players are given a chance to develop naturally.

But in 1990 and 1996 we made the semi finals of major tournamounts, these days we struggle to get out of the group stages.
We also failed to even qualify for the World Cup in '74, '78 and '94, when there were hardly any foreign players in England.

 
I'm not saying that a quota is infallible, I think it would help. As would better coaching of young players,.

The current system is not working, IMO.

 
I think a quota would help, but I also think a hell of a lot more is needed to lift us from the mediocrity we see now.

 
All quotas do is lower the threshold for all. Filling the league with countless players just because they are English will just increase mediocrity. There is no straight forward answer to the problem, successful clubs in this country have for the last 40yrs plus that I have witnessed used foreigners to good effect be they from South America or Scotland. This weekend was the 50th anniversary of George Best debut for United, a quick look at the teamsheet for that day shows only half the United team was English, did it stop us winning the world cup three years later? Ten years later on we failed to qualify for the 74 world cup despite having a league that had at least 60% English to choose from. Is it just possible that during our lean periods we simply just haven't had the right talent to choose from, that are good enough?

 
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