Villains or heroes?
- Thread starter rumpole
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Carshalton Blue
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I havent read one valid reason why Bates gets grief?
Like i said he was a c**t at times but also done a lot of good.
Like i said he was a c**t at times but also done a lot of good.
I'll happily put myself down as another 'fan' of Batesy. Maybe fan is not the right word though. His politics and outlook on life and mine would likely be very different, if it wasn't for his CFC connection I wouldn't ever want to invite him over for a dinner party or chat with him in a pub.
Be that as it may I prefer to deal in facts not 'might have beens'. Batesy fought the battle to save the club. No one else did. He might have done it for selfish reasons, he might have been the only one who could see the potential of the club in the early 80s and figured he could do well out of it in the long term. Frankly I don't really care. He was there when no one else was and he fought like the bar steward he was to keep the club going. Sure, a different owner with more money and a more likeable personality would have been nice. But there wasn't one. And that's a fact.
Moving on to some conjecture. Had he not been our chairman/owner at that time, how many of you could see CFC existing in the way we knew it then and the way we know it now? Would we still be at the Bridge? Would we even be called Chelsea FC? Yes, that's conjecture, we don't know for certain who might have stepped in had Batesy not done so and they might have been more successful in saving us earlier and done it with a smile on their face and a great rapport with the media. But, again, what I know for a fact is that Batesy did the job and, all things considered, did it pretty well.
Be that as it may I prefer to deal in facts not 'might have beens'. Batesy fought the battle to save the club. No one else did. He might have done it for selfish reasons, he might have been the only one who could see the potential of the club in the early 80s and figured he could do well out of it in the long term. Frankly I don't really care. He was there when no one else was and he fought like the bar steward he was to keep the club going. Sure, a different owner with more money and a more likeable personality would have been nice. But there wasn't one. And that's a fact.
Moving on to some conjecture. Had he not been our chairman/owner at that time, how many of you could see CFC existing in the way we knew it then and the way we know it now? Would we still be at the Bridge? Would we even be called Chelsea FC? Yes, that's conjecture, we don't know for certain who might have stepped in had Batesy not done so and they might have been more successful in saving us earlier and done it with a smile on their face and a great rapport with the media. But, again, what I know for a fact is that Batesy did the job and, all things considered, did it pretty well.
Carshalton Blue
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Bates says on the London Programme from 1982 that Chelsea are far to big a club to be where it is, he also says in 20 years i'll have the club in Europe, he nearly made it in 84/85 with us just missing out but then the scousers went on a murdering rampage so it was irrelevant anyway, but then he was proved right albeit a bit later with us in Europe in 94/95.
Backbiter
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I used to own the 'Best of FOUL', which was superb. As you say, a mix of hilarious stuff and investigative features. Sadly, I lent to a mate back in my college days and he never gave it back :-(
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Foul-Football-Andrew-Editors-Nickolds/dp/095046550X
Lofty.
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I've got very vague memories of being in the Shed chanting "Mears out", and "Brian Mears, what a w**ker, what a w**ker". As for Ken Bates, he certainly wasn't everybody's cup of tea. As it happens, I came across a few quotes just the other day, including the following:
Chopper Harris: "He has sh*t on a few people over the years and what goes around comes around. he should have gone a few years ago. He won't be missed and life goes on."
David Speedie: "He is a tosser who has no respect for anyone and he treats people like a piece of sh*t. He always has to be one up on you. If I told him I'd been to Tenerife, he'd say he's been to Elevenerife".
Ossie: "He certainly put my nose out of joint. He wasn't a nice man at times and he got lucky getting Abramovich to buy him out. But he has left the club so much healthier than he found it so you've got to say well done to him."
Personally I reckon Ossie's got it spot on.
Chopper Harris: "He has sh*t on a few people over the years and what goes around comes around. he should have gone a few years ago. He won't be missed and life goes on."
David Speedie: "He is a tosser who has no respect for anyone and he treats people like a piece of sh*t. He always has to be one up on you. If I told him I'd been to Tenerife, he'd say he's been to Elevenerife".
Ossie: "He certainly put my nose out of joint. He wasn't a nice man at times and he got lucky getting Abramovich to buy him out. But he has left the club so much healthier than he found it so you've got to say well done to him."
Personally I reckon Ossie's got it spot on.
just
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I would take anything David Speedie says with a big pinch of salt. Great player no doubt but gets on my tits the way he bangs on about the Scousers when he was only there five minutes. Rarely has a good word to say about us whenever I hear him interviewed.
As for Uncle Ken if I'm ever lucky enough to win a few mill or so, I'll happily spend some of it to pay for a statue outside the Shed End.
As for Uncle Ken if I'm ever lucky enough to win a few mill or so, I'll happily spend some of it to pay for a statue outside the Shed End.
ilderton
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the CPO was the best thing Bates left us with...as for MH loaning us money instead of giving us money, that just what RA has done,,,our debt to him is in a holding company and stands at £700 million.
ilderton
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I think you answered your own question there blue !
ilderton
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I see the "Bates saved Chelsea" myth is still doing the rounds....unless you believe that Bates was able to engineer a market and property crash that scuppered Marler Estates, there's no way he "saved" us.....ok, he used our money to fight a protected battle through the courts and that was because Chelsea provided him with a nice little earner.
And if Ossie thinks he left us in a healthier state, he mustn't have heard about the £80 million debt we were in at the time of our sale to RA.......Bates got lucky on both occasions, any of us could have done the job, and with more good grace I should imagine. His programme notes were always a laugh though, and the CPO was a masterstroke, for which we all should be thankful, although RA might not agree !
And if Ossie thinks he left us in a healthier state, he mustn't have heard about the £80 million debt we were in at the time of our sale to RA.......Bates got lucky on both occasions, any of us could have done the job, and with more good grace I should imagine. His programme notes were always a laugh though, and the CPO was a masterstroke, for which we all should be thankful, although RA might not agree !
rumpole
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ilderton
That post about sums up bates when I meet ossie couple of months before he died he never had one good word to say about him to me perhaps it was a shame that Jim Gregory told bates to f**k off when he was enquiring to buy QPR the club bates supported as for CPO RA could always make me a offer for my shares
That post about sums up bates when I meet ossie couple of months before he died he never had one good word to say about him to me perhaps it was a shame that Jim Gregory told bates to f**k off when he was enquiring to buy QPR the club bates supported as for CPO RA could always make me a offer for my shares
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I don't think anyone is saying that Bates outwitted anyone or cleverly 'won' the court battles to save us. At least I'm not. He got lucky, no doubt about it. He also made a major mistake (I believe, I will have to look this up) in not getting the freehold of the Bridge when he first bought the club.
The point however is that he was there fighting when no one else was. Maybe one of us or someone else could have done it just as well and maybe could have done it with better grace. But no one else did. That's the point.
The cold, hard history of the matter is that Bates did, whatever his motivation, whatever his style and whatever his luck. The rest is just ifs, ands and buts and coulda, shoulda, woulda. I can easily imagine some mythical better owner but I don't remember anyone showing the slightest bit of interest at the time.
It's always better to deal in facts. While none of us can know what might have happened had Bates not been in control we can say what did happen. And what did happen was that he hung on in there and fought for us until eventually we won.
Unfortunately we have to move into the realm of conjecture for me to say that I struggle to imagine anyone else fighting our corner that hard. But it isn't conjecture to say that he did. And for that alone I shall remain grateful.
The point however is that he was there fighting when no one else was. Maybe one of us or someone else could have done it just as well and maybe could have done it with better grace. But no one else did. That's the point.
The cold, hard history of the matter is that Bates did, whatever his motivation, whatever his style and whatever his luck. The rest is just ifs, ands and buts and coulda, shoulda, woulda. I can easily imagine some mythical better owner but I don't remember anyone showing the slightest bit of interest at the time.
It's always better to deal in facts. While none of us can know what might have happened had Bates not been in control we can say what did happen. And what did happen was that he hung on in there and fought for us until eventually we won.
Unfortunately we have to move into the realm of conjecture for me to say that I struggle to imagine anyone else fighting our corner that hard. But it isn't conjecture to say that he did. And for that alone I shall remain grateful.
bluegraham
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Good post Cobham. He was the one who took a chance with us when nobody else was. Not everyone's cup of tea but I'm grateful.
Englishman
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But he also left a club with £250m of fixed assets and annual revenues of £130m, owned our own modern stadium, had just qualified for the Champions League, had had recent success, etc. Things that made us attractive to someone like RA in the first place, and a lot healthier than when Bates took over.
ilderton
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that's true mate....but we were a matter of weeks away from defaulting on that loan, a eurobond if I recall correctly.But yes, we certainly moved forward in terms of the football,,,,as for the stadium, it breaks my heart to see the shedend boxed in and overwhelmed by the hotels,,,a venture that initially drained money away from the club.
He famously claimed not to take a wage from the club, but more then made up for it by claiming outrageous expenses.
It doesn't bear thinking about where we might be now if RA hadn't bought us
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