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What have we done to Josh et al?

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Super Johnzie

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When I first saw Josh play at the Bridge in a League cup defeat against Newcastle he looked like he had the world at his feet. He reminded me of Hoddle with his composure and ability to see and execute a pass.

3 years on, loans to Swansea, Boro and Watford seem to have knocked the confidence out of the lad,

I'm watching the England U21 and he'd not there. Would he have been better off spending 3 years in our squad - getting the odd game?

Was he not that good after all or have we failed him ?

Are we in danger of making the same mistake with Challobah?

And whatever went wrong with Gael Kakuta?

 
Chelsea have a lot to learn when it comes to developing youngsters. Although we did bring the best center back England has ever known through. 

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One day they'll get it right.

 
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None of these kids will ever make it here, that's a sad fact, not unless we totally change our philosophy. Every manager has only been interested in the short term to keep their job as long as possible, no-one gave a sh*t about 10 years down the line.

JOsh will make a good premiership player in 3-4 years when he's moved on and gone to a club who value him and give him a chance, same for Chalobah and lots of others. Then we'll probably be linked with spending £20m on them, knowing how we operate.

 
I wonder if or when we'll use a youth player that was brought on when he was really young. I mean, Terry is a youth product but we bought him at 16 from West Ham where a lot of his development would've been. 

Josh -- didn't he get injured numerous times or something that hindered him? 

Shame he's fallen though. Hope the same doesn't happen to Chalobah :( 

Big problem is the managers though. None of the youngsters will impress or earn the managers trust if we keep changing them every so often. Sustainability is often what gets the youngsters through and given a chance. 

 
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MANoWAR said:
I wonder if or when we'll use a youth player that was brought on when he was really young. I mean, Terry is a youth product but we bought him at 16 from West Ham where a lot of his development would've been. 
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JT joined us at 14. We didn't buy him.

 
Not seem much of Vsn Ginkel and hope he makes a full recovery but don't see the point of paying big money for a Dutch prospect and then sending our own out on loan.

Going to be all the tougher for them all to get into our midfield if Traore is as good as pre-season suggests. ( assuming we don't loan him out too)

 
I'm confident that one day, it'll click into place...

No idea when, and until that point in time, it's going to be frustrating to watch, but sooner or later, the money pumped into the youth infrastructure will pay off....I mean...it has to....right?

 
McEachran went on loan and failed to impress even in the championship. How is that our fault?

Oscar, Hazard etc have no problem being first team regulars and they are also only recently north of 20. If you are good enough you are good enough but not many can make the step up to a top euro side.

 
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The step up from promising youth player to playing in the first team is huge.

We've tried with a few players over the past ten years but the sad truth is none of them were good enough.

Of all the youth products who have come and gone from our academy in the last 10 years none of them have gone on to become brilliant players.

Borini showed promise at Swansea and in Italy but was poor when signed by Liverpool and is now making sub appearances for Sunderland whilst on loan.

Bruma, never kicked on and is now back in Holland.

Scott Sinclair was doing okay at Swansea, then rotted on the Man City bench for a year and is now at West Brom  where he is yet to play this season.

Miroslav Stoch, looked to be doing alright at Fenerbahce but now finds himself on a years loan at PAOK.

Michael Mancienne, made a bold move to Hamburg in 2011 but has since only made 37 appearances for them. 

A case could be made for Nemanja Matic but I honestly don't know how good he is.

I might be missing some but they don't spring to mind, we have a drop of decent prospects (once again) but if even one breaks through it's going to be progress for us. 

 
Backbiter said:
JT joined us at 14. We didn't buy him.
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Ok my bad, but Terry spent longer in the WHU academy than the CFC academy -- and he's considered the sum total of 20 odd years of youth development.

It's still a poor record to have. 

 
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MANoWAR said:
Ok my bad, but Terry spent longer in the WHU academy than the CFC academy -- and he's considered the sum total of 20 odd years of youth development.

It's still a poor record to have. 
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Our academy has produced plenty of players who have made it elsewhere (of the Carlton Cole, Robert Huth, Jack Cork standard), but to make it at Chelsea you have to be world class, as the squad is chock-full of internationals. That is the reason why the path to the first team is currently blocked to young players. Yes, we could use the COC to develop players, but that would piss of the squad players who also need regular football, and fielding a team of youngsters might see them get knocked out immediately. It's a huge problem. I'm as sorry as anyone that talents like Kakuta and Josh have failed to build on their fantastic starts in the first team, but the club HAS made a huge attempt to develop them as players. The sad fact is that only the tiniest of minorites turn out to be world class, which is the calibre of player we look to field to keep us where we are in the game.

 
A further point is this: if you take all the Prem clubs together, how many academies have produced a world-class player in the years since we produced JT? I would argue just one: Southampton, who brought through Bale, but it took several years for him to be an established Premiership player let alone a world-class player, so you have to give Spuds some credit there, just as you credit Chelsea with developing Lamps. And - despite his world-record fee -  I'm sure plenty would argue he's not yet proved himself world-class. England hasn't produced a world-class player in all that time (I don't put Rooney in that elite bracket), so it's not really fair to point the finger at our academy, although I suppose the scouts do trawl the world looking for the most talented players to bring to the club, so they should be producing more top players than the other academies.

 
You could argue United did it with Ronaldo also.

 
Sorry Backbiter, but to briefly reply, I have to disagree with what you said. I'll post a bigger response later. 

 
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It's harsh to just hold the club responsible for Josh's situation. The question could also be what has Josh done in the last three years to warrant a place in the squad? The answer is not much. He had a chance to impress at Boro last season and he didn't take it. By all accounts he hasn't done much at Watford so far either. Last season Chalobah shone with Watford in the same division and I'd say he's closer to getting games here than Josh is.

It is hard to for a young player to progress here, but when the chance to impress comes they have to take it. Bertrand did and now he's a member of the squad. By the age of 20 JT was getting regular starts despite competing with a World Cup winning centre back pairing.

Backbiter said:
A further point is this: if you take all the Prem clubs together, how many academies have produced a world-class player in the years since we produced JT?
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Who was the last top quality player Man U produced? They bring through a lot of players of the calibre of Welbeck, Evans and Fletcher, but all their best players were bought from other clubs. They haven't produced anyone top class since the Giggs, Beckham and Scholes generation. That was 20 years ago.

 
We should just cut Josh McEachran loose because we have a better player who is ready for the first team. Everyone knows Chalobah will be in the first team next year, or perhaps even this coming spring because of the Van Ginkel injury.  

Mourinho said this about Chalobah in August: "He is a very, very good player. I like him very much - very, very much. I am very impressed. For sure, a Chelsea player (in future), for sure. We think he is there. He could be in our squad already. But we think one more season and it will be his last one out on loan."

 
Rick I think maybe you are right. Best to let Josh go and remove the safety blanket in his head -that he 's a Chelsea player so everything will be ok.

Big mistake we made was to sign him up on a big long term contract at such a young age. Although he seems very level headed something like that is bound to affect your hunger. Don't suppose going out with a bird from Corrie has helped either.

Maybe he's proved through his performances that he was not as good as we (I) thought but I can't help feeling that if kept within the club he would have had a better chance .

I really hope he makes it to be a top player - blue shirt or not.

Challobah looked great at Watford but has been on the bench at Forest of late - hope that's only temporary.

 
maybe one of the issues with josh is that he's been loaned out too much. if he was kept at the club and saw the hunger and commitment that the likes of lampard/jt still show day in, day out after all their success he might have learned a lot about how to train/play properly. he has so much talent its hard to put his lack of development down to anything other than coasting/complacency. maybe he would have been kept on his toes more and worked harder if he had lamps/jt/jose in his ear every training session and game, encouraging him to give everything rather than the bare minimum. a real shame as he now looks like he has little to no chance of being a first team regular for us, and he could easily have been a key player if he'd developed as we all expected him to, given his natural ability 

 
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