Fredy Guarin - is he any good?

[MANoWAR]

Need to stop forgetting to put 'inb4 Barca goal' when I say he can't shoot. Nice goal, of course though. 

 

[Amputechture]

Creator of that video deserves a medal

 

[MANoWAR]

Ramires cant shoot or pass?

Is this serious

Are you serious? Do you honestly think Ramires has good passing ability? 

With regards to shooting, the number of wasteful long shots Ramires takes is quite damaging. They regularly do nothing but return possession to the opposition via a goal kick or a block. I just can't fathom where the idea that shooting from range well is an attribute he possesses. 

Why do people keep liking these comments?! I have yet to hear anything from the fella who said I was on drugs as well!

It's not just against better sides, even against worse sides, his driving runs through midfield help whenever there's a transition. If he was alongside someone who can provide a better link to the attacking trio, more incisive passes etc. We'd have no issue at all there, but then we'd struggle if we get broken on.

I agree that he'd be better in a 4-3-3, but whether that'd suit the rest of our side is up for debate and no doubt Mourinho has considered it and decided that we suit 4-2-3-1 more. I agree others may suit us more, but he's comfortably our best now and until that changes he has to play. Pogba is my dream, anyway.

One can say the same about Mikel. If he had a player who was more incisive with his passing and would burst forward with pace (like Gundogan) we'd be better. If we had a master of all trades (in the past take Gerrard in 05 or toni kroos) then he'd be able to bring the best out of mikel or ramires.

Really guys, if we got someone like Gundogan or Pogba and then a DM like Bender you'd easily see how better we'd be all round -- including finishing games off or 'killing the opposition' as it was referred to in a topic earlier here.

 

[Davey Baby]

I have yet to hear anything from the fella who said I was on drugs as well!

He's in a huff with you for not sharing.

 

[MANoWAR]

He's in a huff with you for not sharing.

But I already gave some to you since you asked for some! I don't have anything left... 

 

[Mod]

Fredy isn't a patch on Ajonijonconsicueta!

 

[Teritus]

i'll be a card carrying member of the ramires army and I think his technical skills running with the ball are better than some here think.

however he can't do it on his own.

Looking back at history its not like duff or robben or joe cole did much defensively either, the difference then was obviously makelele and frank having that much more energy than today. Later Ballack came along and strolled about very authoritatively from one of the pitch to the next.

Our formation today with torres in front of hazard oscar and say willian doesn't seem to give us either the defensive coverage or the goals.

Load of tosh. You can make a case for Robben not caring for the defensive side of the game but Duff tracked back plenty. It's the same as when Eto'o was occasionally pushed to the wings for Barca because Ronaldinho never cared for tracking back either.

 

[Sharpy]

Of course he would -- I'm not sure how easily he'll adapt but based on how well he does at Inter he would be an improvement. 

He is the most important player because we have no other alternative, do we?

Ramires is not that good; he is an exceptionally limited player and I have absolutely no idea why some of you seem rate him so highly. I don't really want him starting for Chelsea in the future. 

Never before have I seen a Chelsea fan so utterly delusional about how good one of our players is and what he brings to the team. I have no idea where you get the misconception that Ramires "can't pass". You do realize that he has the highest pass completion rate in our midfield - 86%. The highest in the premier league is only 89% and that is from Yaya Toure. He also completes more passes than everyone in the team apart from John Terry, with an average of 48 passes per 90 minutes.

In comparison, Gaurin has a pass completion rate of 73% and only manages 34 passes per games. 

As for interception/tackles, Ramires has made 53 succesful tackles and 18 interceptions this season in 16 apps. Gaurin has made 28 tackles and 16 interceptions in the same amount of games. 

As for shooting?  Gaurin has made 52 shots and scored 3 goals. Ramires 25 shots and scored 1 goal. We are all aware that Ramires shooting is not the best. But he doesn't get the opportunity to shoot as much because he is played alongside Lampard in the majority of league games as a holding midfielder and naturally it is Lampard who is released to go forward, not Ramires. Are you are one of those people who seems to think that a midfielder is only valuable to the team if he scores/assists? What Ramires brings to the team is invaluable, he breaks down play, makes important tackles/interceptions, and drives the team forward. He is our little machine that works his ass off in every game. Next time Chelsea play, please just spend the 90 minutes paying close attention to Rami and you will quickly learn why this forum has an "army of Ramires fans".

 

[CFCtoronto]

I agree.Ramires is the first name on the teamsheet atm next to cech. My opinion of course but I believe Jose holds a similar opinion. Rambo is key!

 

[MANoWAR]

Never before have I seen a Chelsea fan so utterly delusional about how good one of our players is and what he brings to the team. I have no idea where you get the misconception that Ramires "can't pass". You do realize that he has the highest pass completion rate in our midfield - 86%. The highest in the premier league is only 89% and that is from Yaya Toure. He also completes more passes than everyone in the team apart from John Terry, with an average of 48 passes per 90 minutes.

In comparison, Gaurin has a pass completion rate of 73% and only manages 34 passes per games. 

As for interception/tackles, Ramires has made 53 succesful tackles and 18 interceptions this season in 16 apps. Gaurin has made 28 tackles and 16 interceptions in the same amount of games. 

As for shooting?  Gaurin has made 52 shots and scored 3 goals. Ramires 25 shots and scored 1 goal. We are all aware that Ramires shooting is not the best. But he doesn't get the opportunity to shoot as much because he is played alongside Lampard in the majority of league games as a holding midfielder and naturally it is Lampard who is released to go forward, not Ramires. Are you are one of those people who seems to think that a midfielder is only valuable to the team if he scores/assists? What Ramires brings to the team is invaluable, he breaks down play, makes important tackles/interceptions, and drives the team forward. He is our little machine that works his ass off in every game. Next time Chelsea play, please just spend the 90 minutes paying close attention to Rami and you will quickly learn why this forum has an "army of Ramires fans".

I never really wanted to throw around things like 'delusional' or claiming that I don't even watch my team play but whatever. Are you seriously just picking out stats?
 
The notion of comparing his stats to Guarin's is silly. Why haven't you told me about the attributes Guarin seems to lack? Guarin has played in a variety of positions. He plays on the wing, he's been moved to second striker, full backs and even to the cetnre half area. It's not all the time that he plays in central midfield. It's also ot helped with the declining cambiasso playing next to him and general all round ****ness of that inter team.
 
Or.... am I right in assuming you haven't watched Guarin so use stats to compare the two? 
 
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I watch Ramires every week, every game I watch I see poor touches, poor passes. Now, Ramires isn't an expansive passer anyway which explains that stat a bit. I'd say this season he has improved though. Last season in the double pivot he was very poor, this season he's done better, but it's still not good enough. When I say he can't pass, I'm referring to his passing range. He can't do long range passes well (not a huge problem) but he's also not able to thread a good through ball in because he doesn't have that in his locker. Furthermore, ball control or a good first touch just doesn't seem in his nature.
 
(Where did you get that stat by the way...? There's Mikel, Arteta, Gerrard, Flamini, Allen, even more not only Touré -- all have a higher pass completion than Ramires if we look at the stats from 2013. (Squawka) Even more do if we look just at the 2013/14 season).
 
Ramires can tackle, I'll give you that, he's good at driving the ball forward, but he picks the wrong pass a lot, probably due to him not thinking he's able to make that final pass. 
 
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You're trying to say I only take passing and shooting into consideration? Ok.
 
He has not got good ball control as well as lacking accurate and quick ball distribution. It is causing us huge problems when trying to defend leads by keeping possession and if we don't sort it out then we'll also have many problems in Europe against the good teams and have to rely on counter-attacking football where we'd have to rely on wasteful finishing misplaced passing.
If we had a balance there (so this includes Mikel as well tbf) our attacking midfielders won't have to track back as much because our defensive midfielders can distribute the ball rather than trying to find their first touch -- we'd then see better performances round the team too. 
 
I don't really care if a player assists or not if they put in good performances for the team. Hence why I rate hazard a lot. Even though his stats don't suggest that he's as good as other players in his position. You can see what he brings to the team with his change of pace + technical ability and over time that will transpire to goals and assists for him.
 
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This was said on the other thread, but again, ask yourself the following: Would Ramires even be on the bench for Dortmund, Barcelona, PSG, Real Madrid, Bayern? Even going to teams like Arsenal, Juventus, City -- would he regularly start for them over the players that they have? If you haven't watched those teams then just say that you don't know please. Or maybe you feel that Chelsea shouldn't aim as high as those clubs, if so, then that's fine -- forget everything I've said here. However, given recent comments by Mourinho, the fact that we have him, the fact that not many liked us being in the Europa league last year and the fact that we're near the top, I'd like to think we should have similar objectives to the aformentioned teams, no?   
 
http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/05/22/why-ramires-needs-to-improve-to-make-deep-midfield-chelsea-role-his-own/201305229625
 
Now, he's done better this season, with that passing rate statistic and has generally been decent defensively. But at his age, he should be controlling the midfield, he's not at an age where he's going to improve his ball playing ability drastically, neither is he going to improve his mental side of the game. I'm not saying he's useless (again) but playing him with Mikel who both lack the urgency or accuracy for making forward passes is a bit redundant and that type of pivot is good enough for a Europa League team at best. He lacks general composure in terms of picking out passes and holding the ball in tight spaces. Being able to work in tight spaces as well as composure is key for a top central midfielder which is something he doesn't have. He'd be good for a team like Southampton or Newcastle where his energy and pace will be enough to get him in the team, but not good enough for the top teams.
 
We can utilize ramires better if we had a better DM though. Same with lampard, lampard and Luiz e.g. did very well near the end of last season although against weaker opposition. But, nonetheless, I don't think he should be playing for Chelsea as much as he does right now. 
 
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Please, refute those above points that have been made. The Ramires army can like your comments all they want but it doesn't mean anything. 

 

[dkw]

Ramires army? Get a grip.

 

[Davey Baby]

Does anybody have any idea why Inter want to sell this guy?

I mean, they're hardly setting Serie A alight, if they deem him surplus to requirements, how good can he be?

I speak as somebody who has never heard of him let alone seen him play.

 

[Fatty_Speeding]

Does anybody have any idea why Inter want to sell this guy?

I mean, they're hardly setting Serie A alight, if they deem him surplus to requirements, how good can he be?

I speak as somebody who has never heard of him let alone seen him play.

They want money to reinvest in attacking options, he is their most expendable sellable asset.

 

[loz]

I have only seen him play maybe 5 or 6 times at most so far from an expert on his strengths and weaknesses. So speaking more generally I actually don't see why he would be a priority, or more accurately, where he plays. There are other areas that need more attention than a central midfielder who can play the occasional game on the flank when required.

 

[Davey Baby]

They want money to reinvest in attacking options, he is their most expendable sellable asset.

They can't rate him that highly, or they'd be keeping him, particularly as they're not going to get a fortune for him.

 

[Fatty_Speeding]

I have only seen him play maybe 5 or 6 times at most so far from an expert on his strengths and weaknesses. So speaking more generally I actually don't see why he would be a priority, or more accurately, where he plays. There are other areas that need more attention than a central midfielder who can play the occasional game on the flank when required.

Can play on the flank in case our other 6 midfielders who can play there get injured? Not including Ramires/Bertrand/Azpilicueta?

Guarin is another midfield engine for when Ramires breaks down. Can also sit deeper and create.

 

[Davey Baby]

I have only seen him play maybe 5 or 6 times at most so far from an expert on his strengths and weaknesses. So speaking more generally I actually don't see why he would be a priority, or more accurately, where he plays. There are other areas that need more attention than a central midfielder who can play the occasional game on the flank when required.

He's unlikely to play on the flank, given our options. A CM appears to me to be a priority. We have precious few options in that position, and the options we do have are hardly perfect.

 

[loz]

Can play on the flank in case our other 6 midfielders who can play there get injured? Not including Ramires/Bertrand/Azpilicueta?

Guarin is another midfield engine for when Ramires breaks down. Can also sit deeper and create.

I just don't see why we would be prioritising a back up for Ramires when we need a new striker, Ashley Cole is on his last legs and arguably we need a proper holding midfielder (unless Jose is going to place his faith in Luiz). 

 

[Davey Baby]

I just don't see why we would be prioritising a back up for Ramires when we need a new striker, Ashley Cole is on his last legs and arguably we need a proper holding midfielder (unless Jose is going to place his faith in Luiz). 

Ashley Cole is adequate back-up till the season's end, and will fight for a first-team spot. The summer is the ideal time to get long-term solutions, at which time I'm sure LB, DM and CF will be addressed. In the meantime, if we have to get one player to bolster the squad for the remainder of the season, I think a CM is the right position to look at, as we are awfully thin in that area, and it's a crucial area. If the right guy becomes available in the other positions we should look at it, but the odds are against you in the winter window.

 

[Fatty_Speeding]

They can't rate him that highly, or they'd be keeping him, particularly as they're not going to get a fortune for him.

Maybe it's like Real Madrid selling Ozil.

I just don't see why we would be prioritising a back up for Ramires when we need a new striker, Ashley Cole is on his last legs and arguably we need a proper holding midfielder (unless Jose is going to place his faith in Luiz). 

It's not prioritising, it's just as the market dictates. Guarin is available right now, Matic/Shaw/etc maybe less so.