BlueToff

You've got the manager who is most guilty of whining in the league at the moment lad. I love Mourinho for his entertainment value, and he's obviously up there with the best. But he loves a conspiracy theory, so I don't think he's able to get on his high horse on this occasion. Mourinho is brilliant at keeping the press wrapped around his little finger. The coverage on this has been beyond excessive. Matt Law, in particular, might as well have been writing for the Chelsea match day programme since the start of July. I dont blame Chelsea for making bids. it's part of the game and we accept that at the moment and for the foreseeable future Everton are not realistically going to be challenging for the title, and will need a fantastic season to seriously contend for the top 4. But that doesn't mean we have to roll over, and I came on here to stress that, for some of those CFC fans (mainly on twitter, I know) and no-nothing pundits, who seem completely perplexed by the notion that a big/richer club may not get what they want come the end of August. I don't see him being at Everton all of his career. I don't see him being here in two years time. But for now Stones is at the right place, and I think that the main issue on our behalf is how public the whole saga has become. Rightly or wrongly, Martinez prefers not to show what's going with our activity, and I think he expected a bit more respect for that from CFC/Mourinho/the press.

Tbh, no. I've not got a problem with the loan market, but only when we have at least a sniff of getting them on a permanent deal after. I think it would be carefully considered (though I think any deal with the possibility of a loan included would have been at a lower initial fee on your end), but not sure Martinez (or the fans) would be entirely happy developing somebody else's player when we've just sold them to you. I really get the impression that Martinez is dead set on holding out on this one, unless it's for a really ridiculous amount.

Take your point on Carroll.I should have made it more clear. Many Evertonians don't think Stones is a one-trick pony and he is only going to get better and better. That's why we'd be fuming if he left this summer. I think that at this point in time, Stones' value is around the £30mil mark. I'd say his value to us at this point is a lot more than that. And yes, you're definitely right about the inflation, of course. But I believe we'd rather have him with us for another year at the least, and take that risk, than sell him now with little time to replace him. If he goes next year, I reckon it'll all be done early, like Sterling this season. And as a previous poster said, you guys don't like being told that he's not for sale over again, well we don't like being told by the media that, even though we've said no sale, that he's going to go anyway.

He won't go on the cheap next summer, though. But okay, we'll agree to disagree, I guess.

Well we're never going to sell a player to Liverpool. City and Utd are both interested, and were this summer, but don't want to pay what we are demanding yet. I think EFC would rather have Stones for this season safe in the knowledge that his value is not going to decrease dramatically. We'd rather have another year of him in our team for the sake of a few million - we're not that skint. And surely, a player of Stones' age is only going to go up in value? He's 21 and safely in the top talents in the English game.

I'll put it this way then, without trying to sound too pompous. It makes no sense for Everton to sell this summer, not just to Chelsea, but to anybody. That's why we are demanding so much money. We don't need to sell, he hasn't said he wants to go, and he is key to our plans.

Pompous? Ok. I've already said that most Evertonians have absolutely no issue with clubs bidding for our players. That's football. But it seemed that a lot of Chelsea fans and the media can't get to grips with the fact we don't want to sell him - unless you offer us silly silly money.

I'm not trying to wind you guys up here, I think this thread is pretty good at having very decent debates. But it just seems the general attitude is that little old Everton should be bending over backwards for the might of Chelsea... Whether Stones leaves us or not this window, your guys' trip up to Goodison on Sept.12th will be, err, interesting, to say the least.

Ok, I take your point about that. Now what had Luiz won when he was 21? Please tell me. On that point, I reported on PSG the other night against Ajaccio. Luis was caught out 4 times against a team that had 4 counter attacks all game and 4 seasons ago were playing in the third tier of French football. He's a good player, but he's not in anyway world class, and defensively he's one of the worst CBs you've had in the last 10 years, easy. You did brilliantly to get £50mil for him. Stones has the potential to be 10x the player Luiz currently is. Just as Zouma does.

How have you come to this conclusion? So far the only club making fools out of themselves are Chelsea. He has at no point said he wants to leave. And we won't be forced into selling him. Something that a lot of you lot (including your manager) can't seem to grasp. It's likely that Stones will leave next year because if his development continues like this, then there will be a bidding war, and the likes of you guys, City, Utd etc. will come calling again. Not because Stones is going to demand a transfer, but because we may have accepted that the time is right to cash in on him. We haven't reached that point yet. Is this what having unlimited funds does to fans? Just completely desensitises them to how other clubs do business?

But he's not a good defender, in fact he's a pretty average defender. You did not win the CL because of Luiz... or the Europa for that matter. And, as for the World Cup... well that's really not a great example is it. 1) Brazil reached the semi-final and... 2) He was part of the defence that got beat 7-1 in that game.

Without trying to make this thread about the Everton board... as a chairman, we could have done a lot worse. He's an Evertonian through and through and nobody disputes he has the best intentions for the club deep down. But, when it's come to really trying to push the club on, him and the board (who are the most to blame) have been a complete failure. Several failed stadium moves, ghost investment and transfer money (e.g. the sale of Arteta) completely going down the drain. And while I'm not one to kick up a fuss about a lack of transfers (I always prefer quality over quantity) now we're in an era where the TV money being pumped in is huge, and we've only spent £5mil so far this summer. The board has three choices now to raise capital (and as any person with a business background will know, you don't raise capital by selling your assets): - Invest in the club themselves - Stay on but find investment from elsewhere - Sell up But they can't keep on the way they have been doing - with no investment at all. If Stones were sold this summer, I do believe the fans would turn on mass.

Also, without trying to be a kopite and play the victim, this here is just another example of the press getting into a frenzy. Matt Law has been one of the main culprits, along with Simon Johnson in the Standard. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...o-leave-Everton-before-making-fourth-bid.html So, Mr Law - once again, I might add, without any quotes or substantial evidence to support his claims - is basically writing a piece saying it's all on Stones.

You got £50mil for David Luiz. Was he proven on the world stage? I understand, PSG are mental, but still... £50mil for Luiz. You've set your own benchmark there. Also, Sterling - £50mil to Citeh. Again, i know forward's are more expensive than defenders but... has Sterling proved himself on the world stage? No. Not at all.

Not many are disputing that at all. You're putting words in our mouths, so to speak. He's going to leave eventually, yes. But that doesn't mean we have to let him go this summer. If he helps us to a top 6 place this year, has a great season and goes to the Euros, then we'll be able to demand £40mil without batting an eyelid. European footy would also allow us to attract decent replacements with the money we get. We're not stupid, we know the score. But we're also a big club, and we want to keep the spine of a really good team together for as long as possible - something that Chelsea haven't had to do for the last 15 years. That's not bitter, it's the truth.

I didn't say he was, I said he will be. Cahill has 8 years on Stones. Cahill's a solid defender, and at this point in time is better than Stones. Same can be said for Jagielka, who I do rate slightly more than Cahill but not by much. But Stones is almost at that level already, is what I'm saying. And it's clear as day that Stones will be able to handle it, for me at least. He just doesn't get phased by things. If Cahill can handle it, I'm sure Stones can given a few more years. But at this point he needs game time for a full season, without injuries.

Yep, putting RM in the awkward position of having to do it over and over again.

At this moment in time, he is. And I think Zouma is a very good player.

I mentioned earlier (I think) how he got done for diving in. But he learnt from that mistake and, against Southampton, had Pelle in his pocket for the majority of the game. As I've said, not the finished article, but he will be a much better player/defender than Cahill. There's a lot more examples of Stones saving our defence than making a costly error.

Sometimes you can just tell when a player is quality, no matter what their age. Stones is this. Defensively, he honestly is underrated by the pundits/media. I think it's mainly because they think that cos' he's so young, then he can't be defensively sound. But he's brilliant. I wrote a piece last week on it, actually. His rapid development is mainly down to him learning from the mistakes he makes so quickly. If he dives in once and gets beat, the next time he dives in he'll be 100% sure he can win the ball. Offensive wise, it's clear to see how good he is in possession. The main facet is his composure. When any other of our players are on the ball - and I mean any, not just defenders - and they're under pressure, I worry that we're going to get caught out. But with Stones, he emirates composure. Not just in possession, but also when defending as well. Cahill the other day was flapping all over the place because of Aguero. Jagielka, as good as he is - probably around the same level as Cahill - is guilty of the same sometimes. Stones just doesn't get phased.

Exactly mate. If it were Man Utd or City or Arsenal, it'd be exactly the same. Stones' value to EFC at the moment is around the £40mil mark. Over the odds, probably, but that's what he's worth to us. We're in the position of power in this situation, at the moment, as Stones hasn't tried to force the move. hopefully it stays that way from our POV.

If he stays then I think we'll offer him a pay-rise around October time. The only reason we haven't done so already, IMO, is that it would indicate we are worried or that Stones has said he wants to go. At this moment in time we've rejected all bids, and Stones hasn't said he wants to leave, so no need to make a bigger fuss really. But yeh, I wouldn't be surprised if we offered him a new contract/his agent asked for one. He's on approx. £30k a week at the moment. If he stays we should stump that up by an extra 20k. We'll get that money back when we sell him anyway. Stones himself though is by all accounts a dead sensible lad. He's happy to stay at Everton, but i'm sure if Everton accepted a bid, he'd also happily play for Chelsea. But he's in no rush to leave.

He's not far off defensively. Stones is by no means the finished product, but I don't think Aguero will skin Stones like he did Cahill on sunday, for example. Also, Stones is better than Zouma. Zouma's class, like, but for me Stones is the step ahead in his development.

He won't turn out to be average. Gary Cahill is average - Stones honestly will be up there with the best.

Definitely. I think RM basically knows that realistically, if he carries on his current speed of development, we could only hold onto Stones until 2016 or, at a push, 2017. But he would be loath to lose him now, and if he did go this summer it's definitely a board decision. It would be the straw that broke the camel's back I think, given all the recent media debates about us. And cheers