losCHUNK

lol owned into creating an alt to say pretty much what's been said already for a respsonse, that summised what's been said already ?, I did'nt know you all cared so much u mad...

lol, it's not effort when it's so so easy, take a chomp on something I said if you got something to say ;)

Apparently not as pointed out ;), you're doing it wrong.

lol that's a bit of a backhanded compliment, it's all good I understand what you mean and cheers, I'm finally making friends :D Your opinion of him was a good manager ?, did that opinion slowly go away after the CL in 05 ?, maybe since his final season with Liverpool I could understand but after that final our squad only got better. Yea we rode our luck in 05, not just in the final but during the campaign, that was one of the most rollercoaster moments I've ever had as a fan but I'm also a firm believer in making your own luck. What goes around comes around though which is what happened in 07 VS the same team, where on this occasion we played them off the park but conceeded 2 and only managed to pull back 1, with Pennant ! getting MOTM, an FA cup victory occured between this, adding a European Super cup to the list also whilst finishing consistantly in the top 4 (more often pipping Arsenal to 3rd) for the 1st time in a long time with a net spend of 16/18m per year and rebuilding a squad at the same time, a squad that I consider to have some real superstars with some real shrewd business by bringing in the likes of Maxi and Riera and havnt included the sales of players since he left to offset any figures ive said (Mash, Torres, Babel + Aqua at losses). After this he guided Liverpool to to 2nd place in a season where I still believe we were the better team where after, it kinda went pear shaped, after a sh*t start we couldn't recover and that was pretty much that, at this point the club was being sucked dry, Alonso was gone and struggling to keep hold of players like Mash with no left back /defence and any funds received paying off interest payments >:E. I've kinda said about his tenure at Inter, I don't think any manager has managed to get that squad together since the chosen one left, I understand Ranieri had a spout of success but so did Rafa with his cup wins and beat him, and Roma in the process. This is without mentioning his time at Valencia, the only club to win La Liga titles other than Barca and Real in god knows how long or the amount of clubs he reduced to tears all across Europe. I'm not gonna sit here and say he's the worlds best manager, for Liverpool ?, maybe... I know I've just written him a very good advert but I understand he has his flaws, I'm not sure I agree with his player management methods and being out the game for so long I'm actually quite surprised he managed to hit the ground running for a top 4 battle, I wasn't joking when I said the man needs patience. The 'rant' like I said imo was an attempt to unite the fanbase, another mistake. I don't for 1 second believe the man has an agenda against your club or the fans, he could have done a lot worse if he wanted to sink you, the man strives for success and this obsession can probaly be considered another fault but this process has served him well in the past and I have to go back to an earlier post and say it's not like you should have expected anything different and how can he be blamed for this ?, he didn't select himself as manager nor did Matteo or AVB sack themselves. In my experience with Rafa he was nothing but a humble character and if the fans boo him then maybe, he has a right to criticise the fans to defend himself ?. I know at Liverpool he had to do this as memebers of the board were leaking information to the press, my personnel view - the fans support the team, the manager does his job and should be judged on his results at the end of the season, as it stands there's plenty to fight for and I'm not entirely sure you can say Chelsea we quite up to challenging the Manc clubs for the title this season considering your leauge form last season and Man U's this season. It's like saying we were capable of the top 4, that was the plan but it soon become obvious that it was going tits up like.

Ey, hey enough of the accusations, the remark about a fishing trip backfiring was meant with an element of seriousness. Think I've shown I'm ready to hold a sensible discussion if the opportunity arises.

Welcome to the internet, serious stuff

U mad bro, next time you go fishing, don't eat your own bait

That's 1 in my boat

You want my number too flower ?, make up a reason, has nothing to do with what's being discussed here, can go open up a 'why are you on the internet when your team are playing' thread if you fancy it ? In any case, I think I even mentioned what was going on when someone asked before

@Backbiter How about we judge him at the end of the season on his results instead ?, I think Matteo was awarded the same when Chelsea we're heading out of Europe ? Which brought to me successes, I was talking about a reduced number of games that were played to reach the final, which was totaled up over 3 games for Rafa ?, the 1st part of the post was to explain the quality of the opposition and accepted that, my point was it should'nt take away from their achievment, especially considering both achieved these things in such short tenures with squads they inherited, which lead me on to Ranieri and his slide after the purple patch and the state of the squad that both managers (Rafa / Claudio) had after Mourinhio left (not through his fault, I think he left just at the right time) And aye Aquiliani, if you head back a page you'll see I edited my post ;)... let's be honest its not the worst piece of business either of our clubs have performed in recent years :D, it was more like 16mil btw and probaly less, with a back story I'm sure you'd love to hear all about :D Also like to say that the article on the last page is shoddy at best and not sure you should expect much more from the Mirror :) out of curiosity n all, did you want AVB to continue as manager despite having the worst record ?, I can't recall fans jumping on his back, am also a fan of AVB

I covered this in my 1st post mate, I said our support had it's own section of tits, our anger was directed more at the owners at the time though and was nothing like what's happening to Rafa now. Think this was obvious at the time, we all knew Roy's time was up, we were pretty much waiting for him to leave and the fanbase gave him plenty of chances (we were also heading for relegation zone).

1. Why ?, you can't take out more than you put in ?, it's an overly simplistic but its a jist. 2. Was raised and explained again 3. Explained in previous posts

Now this is a proper post (thank you so much). 1st up - Forgive me if I have to sumise but as much as Matteo suceeded in the cups he still struggled to find form in the league ? and is considered one of your better managers in recent years ?, making winning CL a necasity for CL football the following season ? - It has always been the case that money from player sales would be recycled to put towards player purchases, give or take a few quid, Man UTD are different, they have an established squad and can afford to invest in flops, it's obvious and I know you know this so I won't go on, but if we were equal on spending we'd be settling for stagnantion which is not what the owners promsed Rafa or the fans. But as a rule of thumb you work on your net spend, which was the figures quoted, even the person I quoted understood this. Arsenal are the best at playing this game and I'm not entirely sure you can argue it's worked out for them either, even spurs spunked money finding a decent squad and in terms of transfers, there was only a handful that failed to return a profit (Keane, Babel, Dossena off the top of me head... edit: Have to include Aquilaini if I'm including Keane :) ) - Trophies are trophies but I'll accept their importance are pretty insignificant when compared to others, could also say the same with Matteo and the games he had to play to win his trophies though (again not to discredit, just to contrast and compare) and with reguards to Ranieri, after his purple patch when he arrived (Feb onwards), it's all been pretty much down hill ? That's also what I meant, Chelsea being contenders for the title. Again cheers for your input.

Adverts, but it's not important, call me a Rafa fan 1st if it helps this convo continue...

Fortunately 'what seems' and 'what is' are 2 different things :) and we know you don't like him, we'd be having a different conversation otherwise and I have done nothing but respond respectfully without swearing and a few tounge in cheek comments, have seen far worse behaviour from your fans since arriving full of abuse directed everywhere. Opinions can be formed on lies or truth, that's the point of a discussion innit ?, until you can chomp on something I've said, then you've got nothing.

Sorry guy I just noticed you did include the player sales, get so used to those numbers being quoted at me without the recoup, doesn't change what I've said tho and none of those figures quoted would include players sold after he left, like Torres which would be another 8mil ? chopped off them averages I've given.

Christ man chill, collecting comments from days gone by when he was managing another club just makes you sound bitter, he's your boss, he's not trying to undermine the team and it's not some conspiracy nor has he a crystal ball or superhuman, if he's making comments about chelsea's ability to play better or setting benchmarks then that's what he does and was part of his downfall at our club, it's why certain players refused to stand up for him when he was fighting a boardroom battle on his own. I've already gone into his credentials and if you wanna talk about his spending I dont think a club like yourselves can argue, he had a net spend of less than 15-18mil a year (13 mil less than liverpools profits) and received no fudning in his final 2 seasons, most of his money came from selling other players. How much money did your squad need before you were considered serious contenders ?, and we're the condescending bunch ?. You should know that going through what you are now, the media has a tendency to spin things to make them sound better and quoting a total spend without taking away recouped profits sound better. In terms of his career in Italy, he won 2 trophies in the shortest of periods and was dismissed after requesting new signings which, apparently, he was right to do.

Don't want him thanks, I'm currently focusing on supporting my manager... :D Cheers for the reply, I knew i'd get something out of you :D. Some good points that I strongly disagree with (in terms of his managing history), the man has more than enough credentials to back up his claims to greatness imo. I understand how his relationship to us would frustrate you, I'd probaly show the same contempt towards mourinhio if he were a scouse boss and his 'special one' attitude, but I'd still respect him and support him reguardless of results, he would be our manager (same goes for any of your managers too, wether crap or not). I'll take a peak at the stats as Chelsea boss though, honestly didn't expect to see results like that seeing as Chelsea are still fighting strong in the top 4 and plenty of games left., but after his CL victory he had another CL final, European super cup, FA cup and 2nd in the premiership whilst consistantly finishing in the top 4 until his final season and grabbing every scalp worth getting in Europe, granted he hasn't hit them heights since but that would be the height of any bosses career, a record not to be snuffed at and superior to many of your other managers and find it somewhat dismissive to call it a 'fluke'. I also noticed you made mention about him replacing young managers or legends n all, he replaced no one, your own board room did that and would have happened anyway and in these situations I think it best to remove the cause 1st rather than the symptom.

Mate (if I may) I can completely sympathise with you over this (in terms to the media), every club suffers with it from time to time and they seem to be going to town on you lot lately. I don't wish to stick the boot in but in my experience with Rafa, all he has ever wanted is to succeed, he can make mistakes and being out the game for so long I think it'd be a tall order to expect him to pick up at the same level where he left off, the man was always going to require patience but with patience I think he can be destined for great things (I know this is probaly a minority opinion on these boards The rant was a mistake, I think he was trying to unite the fans and it didn't work, signing a contract I also think was a mistake but that'd be like blaming Andy for signing for 35m. I don't wish to discredit any of your managers but I see him far away from being the worst and his own record shows that, so would expect he be treated with a little more respect ya know ?, and aiming the target to the people that appointed him because in all honesty if that is an issue, it really isn't been shown in the media.

The poster I've not long replied to already said that Rafa would never be accepted (I would assume this is form the start of his Chelsea job), if that's the case then imo, it's not Rafas fault and It's not like you didn't know who Rafa was even if you developed this opinion afterwards. As far as tactical awareness goes, that's partly the reason why I made mention to Roy and in my personnel view his failure at Liverpool was never his fault, as much as a tactically unaware gobsh*te that I think he is. In reguards to what business it has with us, well I am personally a Rafa fan and what's the harm in that ?, it's not like I wasn't hoping for him to do great things with your club (I genuinely hoped he would succeed) and find it a shame it hasn't worked out for you or him, it's done no one any favours.

lol you got nothing, bet you don't even know yourself, next.

Sorry mate but I think you're flying off at assumptions with a bit of a high horse, I've flicked through this thread and most of the other and all I see is the same comments page after page, which is usually slagging him off, who to replace him with and the odd mention of the boardroom which is all good, I understand people have plenty to say but it doesn't mean the real message can't get lost ?, think that tells you about my level of ineterest also. And yea I made some flippant comments, I called some people tits and made a light hearted comment about Roy, no malice, what you've done is bought a shotgun to a knife party and blown your foot off when aiming for my head.

Christ if some of you lot had to put up with Roy I think you would have hung yourselves , is most of this hate directed at him mainly because of his rant ?, I can list a few other Chelsea managers that are far worse (imo) with less credentials and receive far less 'criticism' by your supporters ?, during their tenure and after they left. And no I don't think you can say the scouse gave Roy anywhere near as much stick as you lot are giving Rafa, granted his throne was tainted from the get go but our issue was always with the owners, not so much with Roy's week in / week out rendition of '1 trick pony'. Either way I agree that you're all free to do as you wish reguardless of what the rest of the world thinks, just don't blame them if they think some of you are a bunch of tits and pop by to witness the tittery from time to time :). I'll try to steer clear of the blame game and who's most at fault, avoid suggestions and telling you who is to blame, but I do also think Rafa was a tit for coming out with it and the scouse had sections of tits when Roy was in charge, I find it all rather inmature BUT if you honestly believe that removing Rafa will fix the bulk of your problems (as opposed to a trigger happy owner / boardroom) then I can't argue that your not doing the right thing, if he's a dead cert to be gone at the end of the season (which he is) then I think you maybe wasting your time ?, I think im struggling to understand what your protesting about ?, just the 'fact' that it's Rafa ?, lol

I see, so if i got this, a club with a large expenditure would just play accountant tricks to balance the books for the FFP (i heard mention of amortisation, removel of player wages ?), if this was the case then it wouldnt really effect these clubs anyway ?, essentially becoming un-enforcable and would only really show an effect if your income and expenditure cant be fiddled with enough when you make huge signings ?.... it also wouldnt stop a businessmen with dubious background to pile debt onto a club and let it sink, because essenitially its loaded against income and expenditure anwyays ?, with or without FFP. if this is the case, then whats the point ? :P, it does have a goal, to stop spending, i can see that clearly, with it trying to benefit the larger fanbased clubs.... but could this perhaps offer a layer of protection for a club like chelsea or city ?, having your books balanced should roman or the sheikh do a runner ? (im not saying either will)

lol youre in the same boat as me then