Saaladin

I can see how it could be perceived as revisionist but realistically, there is no way Conte was all happy about losing Matic to get Bakayoko. Matic was a star for Chelsea why would Conte have been happy about that? As for Morata, sure he was a striker that had some suiters but largely it was United and Juve. No one else really went that hard for him which is why Chelsea got him for £58. Everyone also knew that Morata was coming off the bench in Madrid and pretty much worked mop up duty for Benzema and Bale and never really made a first eleven appearance against any notable teams. How could that be a realistic replacement of Costa who was a feared EPL and European striker? And yes, we sold Matic and Costa at a discount, another great aspect of our board's business dealings.

Conte lost Costa and Matic and got Bakayoko and Morata -- Starting eleven downgraded. Stop creating a mirage with your inflated £230 number. That doesn't tell the story of our transfer window and you know it but are just forcing it to make your point valid. Poch sold Walker for an insane price for his ability and Tottenham had a replacement (Trippier) not to mention purchasing Aurier. When did they lose Alderweireld and Rose? He got them CL football because he had the golden boot winner Kane, Dele Alli, Eriksen, a top notch backline, Dembele, Sassoko, Wanyama and a world class GK. Klopp sold a player who didn't fit his system in Coutinho, a top player yes, but he also bought Mohammed Salah, Wijnaldum, Ox-Chamberlain, Milner, and Virgil Van Dijk who is arguably the best central defender in the EPL. Again, don't confuse people with a cover-all statement like "Conte got £230m to spend and lost out on CL" that is not the story. The real story is that Chelsea spent money on mid-level players and replaced stars with players who were not ready.

I didn't make up any numbers. Apparently you can't read because those numbers you posted only support my findings.... But well done! And as for us Tottenham and I'm guessing you mean Liverpool, are we in that same category now? Tottenham ended up with a strong team built over a few seasons and have not had high expectations, at least not as high as Chelsea. That allows a manager flexibility. The whole finish 2nd in the league and you're fired (Ancelotti) thing doesn't happen at Tottenham. They already had a ready made team for this season and didn't need a lot of transfers. Chelsea needed to improve and did the opposite. You're comparing apples to oranges.

He didn't have it out with Costa in the media. He texted Costa privately to tell him he wasn't going to remain a Chelsea player. I have no issue with that after Costa caused a media circus around Chelsea in January about going to China. He could have waited yet he chose to allow those rumors and desires to cause a distraction in the middle of Conte's first season when he had us in 1st position. You give him more time and more money because he gave Chelsea a title in 2017, he rallied the team, he clearly put his heart on the line and inspired a 10th place team to win a title. Then when he thought he would have the support of the club to build a long-term winner he was shunned and the club did as they always do and destroy any hopes of repeating as champions or actually building something special with a ridiculously stupid transfer window.

You have to look at buys and sales not just overall spending, Chelsea had a Net Spend. Players In: Morata --- Cost: £58 (Not 75. His transfer fee was 58 and with add-ons could rise to 70 if Chelsea had reached certain targets) Rudiger -- Cost £30 Drinkwater --- Cost £35 Zappacosta --- Cost £23 Bakayoko --- Cost £35 Caballero -- Free Total Spend -- £180 Players Out: Costa -- £58 Cuadrado -- £17 Begovic -- £10 Solanke -- £3 Atsu -- £6 Ake -- £20 Traore - £10 Chalobah - £5 Matic - £40 Oscar - £60 - Sold in January of 2017 so should have contributed to summer buys Total Sales -- £205 So yeah, Chelsea spent a decent amount of money in the summer, but they also made a ton of money on player sales. And still it's not that simple, because I know some folks will just point to that being "good business sense" however, you have to evaluate what that overall business means to Conte and his ability to compete vs the best. We brought in Bakayoko - High potential player and young We lost Matic - maybe the second best midfielder in England --- So we lost on that deal and there is no way Conte sanctioned losing Matic to bring in Bakayoko. He wanted a signing to add to the squad not a signing to replace Matic. We bought Morata - Again, young striker with potential. And no one can claim anything else. Morata was not a ready-made striker. He was a second option everywhere he has been and has never lead a team. Lukaku has. Costa has. So again, we lost a top striker (and Conte had every right to want Costa out for unsettling the squad in the middle of a title run) and replaced him with an unproven one. We brought in Rudiger - Decent buy - But not exactly bringing in a player who raises your level significantly beyond what we had in Cahill. We bring in Drinkwater - Again, decent buy to provide depth but not a player that will raise your starting 11 beyond what it was. So Costa and Matic, considered top level EPL and european players are sold and lesser players brought in. We lost on those transfers. No one else of note came in to improve the starting 11 and Conte WASN'T left out to dry? Yes he was, severely. But Chelsea fans can go on believing our board did Conte some great favors over the last 2 transfer windows (I won't even discuss January because it was worse) and he messed up the season by losing out to the current top 4 who simply are more talented. That's simply short-sighted and unrealistic.

I don't think the point he was making was having a smaller squad. The point he was making was stop buying me average players for 30-40 mil each and get me 2-3 70 mil pound players that give me real options off the bench. You can have a bench full of average players as we do now and not have any real depth. Whereas I can have a bench of 5 players who can come on and make the difference.

And this mentality is actually one I can get behind. Fine, Chelsea is a team that needs a re-tool. Not ready to compete for any titles this season and at the end of the day we finish probably 5th with an outside chance at 4th. For this squad it's a fair season. Which is why I don't blame Conte. In his mind, Chelsea were supposed to challenge for top trophies and the club was supposed to back him to do that. They didn't and to make it worse he gets questioned in the media constantly about his job security when the team falters. And if we're being realistic the Chelsea board + Abramovich have no patience for a down year and everyone knows it. If they did, they could have bit the bullet and come out to back their manager and let the fans know that they will re-build the team next summer. Case closed. However they didn't want to admit their their transfer dealings were downright stupid and preferred to leave Conte out in front of the firing squad to answer questions about things he can't control.

So you have an issue that he tells the truth? City doesn't have the ability to repeat? To win CL? They are not a club with ambition willing to invest? The Chelsea match vs Burnley is actually easy and it will be simple to catch Tottenham? Not sure what you have issue with.

It's an assumption based on the fact that Chelsea fans and the board have an expectation that Chelsea win things. If you don't feel that this squad could win the league or CL then what is it you expect of the Chelsea squad?

We're obviously not going to agree which is fine, this is a forum for discussion and inevitably disagreement. You clearly feel like those players you are mentioning are Chelsea caliber players who could have helped us win the CL and claim a second successive league title and I simply don't agree especially in a season with 4 competitions. Man City GKs - Ederson - Claudio Bravo (starting GK for Barca last season) CBs - Otamendi - Kompany - Stones - Laporte FBs - Mendy - Danilo - Walker CM - Gundogan - KDB - Delph - David Silva - Bernardo Silva - Fernandinho - Yaya Toure Forwards - Sterling - Gabriel Jesus - Leroy Sane - Sergio Aguero Man United GKs - De Gea - Romero (Argentina Starting GK) CBs - Lindelof - Bailly - Jones - Smalling FBs - Rojo - Shaw - Valencia - Darmian - Blind CMs - Pogba - Herrera - Matic - Carrick - Mata - Fellaini - McTominay Forwards - Lukaku - Lingard - Sanchez - Rashford - Martial - Young Liverpool GKs - Karius - Mignolet CBs - Van Dijk - Lovren - Matip - Klavan FBs - Clyne - Robertson - Alexander Arnold - Moreno CM - Milner - Henderson - Can - Chamberlain - Lallana - Wijnaldum Forwards - Salah - Firmino - Mane - Ings Tottenham GKs - Hugo Loris - Michel Vorm CBs - Alderweireld - Sanchez - Vertonghen - FBs - Rose - Trippier - Aurier - Davies CMs - Dembele - Eriksen - Wanyama - Dier - Sissoko - Winks Forwards - Kane - Alli - Moura - Lamela - Son Chelsea GKs - Courtois - Caballero CBs - Christensen - Cahill - Rudiger - Luiz - Ampadu FBs - Alonso - Moses - Azpi - Zappa - Emerson CMs - Fabregas - Kante - Bakayoko - Drinkwater Forwards - Hazard - Willian - Morata - Batshuayi - Giroud - Pedro Please rank the squads - In your honest opinions which teams would you have finishing 1st - 5th? For me it is: City - Star power in starting 11 better than Chelsea - Quality on the bench is far and away above Chelsea. Only starter from Chelsea would be Hazard and Azpi. Tottenham - Greater start power. Defense and midfield lines are stronger in both quality and experience for Tottenaham. Kante, Hazard, Azpi and maybe Willian would be in their 11. Alonso would compete with Rose. United - Greater star power. Their defense is experienced and strong - Again Azpi starts. Kante would displace Herrera. Hazard in front three with Lukaku and Sanchez. Alonso also for anything they have. Liverpool - Greater start power. Kante and Azpi again, maybe Christensen over Lovren but not always. Mane - Firmino - Salah untouchable. Hazard would be depth. Alonso would compete with Robertson. Chelsea - Players that would be replaced in starting 11 by every team in top 4: Rudiger, Christensen, Cahill, Fabregas, Morata, Moses. So in summary and in my opnion - Chelsea have 5 players in their typical starting 11 that wouldn't start in any of the top 4 teams. And that is our spine plus Moses. Willian wouldn't start for Liverpool or City and would be in a weekly battle at Tottenham and United. He walks into Chelsea starting 11 however without a doubt.

Yes I said that, and I meant to look at it from Conte's perspective. I'm not a manager so it wouldn't apply to me anyway.

Conte never said anything about having too many players... I read those comments and they were clear. He said rather than buy several average players he would rather buy 2-3 elite players and have a smaller squad. And yes, it's purely the board's fault because all the fans and Conte were waiting for some big buys to happen to improve the quality of the squad and it never happened. The profile of the players that left were much larger than those that came in.

Yes because you know me and what I have done in football in Canada. Either way, it's irrelevant, I'm here discussing football as a fan not a coach.

I can do this all day long - I mean people need to at least check into the factual aspects of their arguments. Its very apparent that fans just want to scapegoat Conte because the board and Abramovich are untouchable. So again.... 1. Batsman -- Conte gave him several starting opportunities and he NEVER played well. Always struggled in all his starts even against weaker competition. Even to the point where Conte was asked in press conferences why Bats has struggled when starting matches and why he only seems to have impact in games when coming on in the last few minutes as a substitute. Conte said he was still a developing player and needs to adapt to Chelsea's way of playing. Why would Conte continue to start a player who has not shown he can handle playing in our system? In Dortmund he is playing in a weaker league and in a different style of play. 2. Emerson -- You're talking about a guy who didn't even play at his own club before joining Chelsea so I'm not even going to address this point. He may be a talented kid but was far from match fitness when he joined. 3. Most Chelsea fans are well aware that Ampadu was getting minutes and that Conte was excited about him and hid involvement in the first team - He then got injured and hasn't been back from injury since. 4. Drinkwater I agree has been underused. But we have had very important matches since he has returned to full fitness (he's had long injury absences twice this season) and Conte prefers Fabregas' passing to anything Drinkwater brings. He has been just OK since joining Chelsea so when trying to win CL matches and staying in the top 4 chase Conte has relied on the more creative Fabregas and better defensive player in Kante. Drinkwater doesn't really bring his own unique quality to the table so Conte has never been compelled to use him. When fit that is. 5. I would love to see more of CHO, however, Conte has Hazard and Willian ahead of him. And behind those two is Pedro who hasn't been getting many minutes himself. So what should Conte do? Play CHO over Pedro? Luiz has been injured all season. Yes there was an issue between him and Conte but he is legitimately injured and Conte has confirmed that in the past. Luiz was reported to have traveled to Spain to visit with specialists regarding his knee.

Name them. Don't just categorize.. Who are you referring to? Zappacosta? Drinkwater? Emerson? Surely it wasn't them who were going to save our season. Conte tried them, they did nothing. As for Emerson, the club bought a player who was untested and completely based on potential for future years. If you are saying those are the options, that is the depth then there is nothing else to say. But I'll let you make your argument as to how they could have improved our team or given us a different skill we could have used...

If they are completely ridiculous excuses then they should be easy to debunk. You prefer to attack the opinion and the poster because it's easier for you. My opinion was provided with coinciding evidence as to why it is valid. I didn't just throw out a claim. So if you want to throw in your 2 cents go ahead, but just making a claim that my opinion is wrong and ridiculous is in itself ridiculous when presenting an argument of your own.

great argument you make there... Bullocks. Probably because you have nothing to contribute and completely unable to defend your position.

I already explained that read my earlier post.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Peronally I knew we would lose or draw even before the match. It was just all adding up to a loss. Once again in that game Conte tried what everyone here is saying he should have been doing (he did but people forget) Barkley and Baka started this match. So again, tired team vs fresh team and despite trying to use depth we get battered anyway because team was left short-handed in summer.

Are you actually saying that you don't think a soli EPL team can beat an elite EPL team given 11 days rest while the elite team had no rest? I thought the EPL was the best league in the world for that reason alone? So yes, when you're a team with little depth, very little rest, playing a team who is historically been solid and was very well rested, I think it is a valid reason to lose at home or anywhere.

Ok now we're talking... 1. Do I trust Conte using 3 at the back? Yes, I see no issue with Conte going 3 at the back 100% of the time. We won the league with it, Juve use it if not 100% at least 95% of the time. I personally do think it was a coincidence that we got the win moving to 4 at the back but it's anyone's guess. The first goal was a typical cross from Alonso and a striker who wants to compete made an incredible play. The other goals came from sheer pressure. Do you think Emerson should have been given more time and rested Alonso? I think Emerson came from Roma out of form and hadn't played barely a single match all season. He wasn't even used a single time in the CL either. So Conte got, as an alternate to Alonso, a player who is himself out of form and match fitness. Has Drinkwater been so bad that he deserved to play less than 600 minutes this season? Drinkwater hasn't been bad, no. But if you ask Conte he probably would tell you that Fabregas is far and away the better passer and playmaker and Kante far and away the best defender. Therefore for any game that matters, and they seem to all have this season, Fabregas/Kante was really the only pair he could use. Batshuayi has scored goals everywhere he goes, why is it only Conte that can't get the best out of him? Should he have adapted his formation to play to his strengths/ given more chances to shine? Batshuayi is a poacher, he thrives in the box. His build up/hold up play is atrocious. He was losing the ball constantly when receiving back to goal as he has a heavy first touch and a thoughtless second touch. He was hurting our style of play overall. So yeah, maybe coming on in the last 10 minutes make some sense but he struggled in Chelsea's setup. Conte is not about to change the mentalities of 10 other players to match a striker he didn't want in the first place. Moses has been very poor, do you honestly think Zappa wouldn't have been better? My opinion on this is that Moses hasn't been poor. He has been great offensively and defensively. However he has struggled severely in the final third. His delivery and final pass has no thought and unfortunately it costs us. But he performs at such a high level on the other 90% of the pitch. Zappa on the other hand has struggled everywhere. His delivery has been equally bad and doesn't offer the same ability in build up and defensive cover. Therefore, once again, for Conte the decision was being made out of his hands. Are you happy with Conte's signings (Morata/Bakayoko)? I do believe Conte wanted Morata but I also believe Conte desperately wanted another striker to pair with him or as quality off the bench with Bats sold or loaned in the summer. Morata was Conte's target but he was clearly asking for 2 strikers not ONE. With Costa being sold also. So it was obvious he wanted to Sell Costa and Bats and bring in Morata and another top striker. He didn't get it and that was probably his second biggest frustration. I don't believe Baka was his first or even second choice CM. Maybe he accepted it later in the summer but that transfer took a long long time when you compare it to the Silva transfer City completed with Monaco. I think Conte wanted a much more established player and again didn't get it. So in the end he lost Costa and Matic and ended up in the negative in terms of quality. Do you think we should have a full squad of world class players? Absolutely not, I don't think that's reasonable. But, 14-15 world class players, yes. At least if our ambition is to win important things consistently. Again it goes back to expectation, Chelsea will likely finish 5th this season, when you consider what City, United, Liverpool and Tottenham have in their starting 11s and off the bench is it really unrealistic to finish 5th? Could have been 4th? Sure but 5th is not far off reality. You can surely admit that. The problem is Chelsea fans didn't evaluate the squad critically before the season, Conte did. And knew it and probably spent his summer pushing the board to do something about it to no avail. So again, I expect that at critical positions we have a world class player that can come off the bench and help. This season, it should have been Fabregas and Bakayoko coming in for Kante and Matic. Youth I actually have to praise Conte a bit on this point. I think he's done an okay job in regards to youth, especially Ampadu. Christensen was already very established and was expected to take a starting spot this year so less so with him. The glaring failure is CHO though. As you have mentioned Pedro has been complete dross this season. Even so, he still comes on at the end of most games and offers f**k all. Should Conte be giving Pedro's minutes to CHO? At this point in the season yes, but the only excuse I give Conte is that for him he is trying to win as many games as possible and although Pedro has not been great he's still ahead of CHO in the defensive aspect of the game and more experience in playing with our top players in tight situations. CHO is a man among boys in the U21 but it's anyone's guess how he would do as an alternate to Willian or Hazard. Pedro is basically getting scraps right now anyway. So Conte intelligently is giving those scraps to a well respected spanish player. If Pedro was getting completely frozen out it could cause locker room politics. That unfortunately does play a role.

Yep, Rudiger was clearly dropped. It was a discipline issue in Conte's eyes. Maybe Conte didn't like the fact that Rudiger is speaking through the press to criticize his team in a very clear manner when he could have kept that in-house. It's a harsh move by Conte but with the history of player revolt at Chelsea I respect a manager who will put his foot down on any sign of it.

How about you actually try thinking like a manager instead of a fan. He had ZERO options off the bench to rotate. DD was nicked up and ineffective when healthy, Bakayoko has been an embarrassment. Who exactly does that leave in midfield? Has Pedro done anything all season with all the substitute appearances? Has Zappacosta impressed you? When was an alternative for Marcos Alonso brought in? When was an alternative to Morata brought in? How many games did Morata himself miss due to back injury? Try thinking critically instead of just criticizing...

Chelsea Schedule before playing Bournemouth: Jan 13th - Leceister Jan 17th - Norwich Jan 20th - Brighton Jan 24th - Arsenal Jan 28th - Newcastle Jan 31 - BOURNEMOUTH Bournemouth Schedule: Jan 14th - Arsenal Jan 17th - Wigan Jan 20th West Ham...................... Jan 31st - CHELSEA Six days later we played Watford -- Conte rotated the squad and put in Baka after giving him a reset. RED CARD BAKAYOKO after a terrible first half for him. We lose 4-1 despite actually playing well in the second half down to 10 men. They gave it all they could. After that we go into the toughest stretch of games all season including matches against Barca twice, United, City, Leicester and Tottenham. For a squad like the one gifted to Conte by the Chelsea board, they never stood a chance.

Again, this is not about the quality in our top 11. This is about overall squad quality. And when you are playing a stretch of 1 game every 3-4 days and you are over-extending that top 11, in the EPL you are going to lose. Conte was CLEAR that he thought our squad size was too small and needed depth. They ignored him and he has every right to be pissed because there is nothing else he could have done with this squad this season. In addition, I think you are over-valuing our top 11 a least a bit. Fabregas is clearly spread thin at this point in his career, Baka was a disaster, DD has been average, Morata as replacement for Costa has been sub-par and Pedro has lost his shine from last season. Your dismay should be directed to the Chelsea board who screwed us once again from repeating as EPL champs and possibly competing for a CL title. Of course you would rather direct your anger and Conte because he is an easy target. Conte is clearly a guy that wants to win, everything, everyday. But when you're given literally nothing after what he did in year 1, what else can be expected. How about you criticize Abramovich or Granskaiova? Probably because there would be zero impact. But criticizing Conte will have him out and that's what everyone always wants to do, have someone pay the price for a poor season.