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DumbYank

DumbYank Here

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Howdy!  Got my fanny pack secured over my fat ass and under my cheap, watery beer belly.  Got my big, fuzzy finger with #22 on it.  I really overpronounce the r sound on the ends of my words and am here to talk some football.  But since you "chaps" don't know crap about football , let's talk some soccer.

 

I am from beautiful SW Indiana in the good ol' US of A and look forward to hopefully learning about the game and enjoying some conversation.  In all seriousness, I hope Pulisic breaks in for this team.  I've watched the game for a while, longer than most Americans, but hope to learn more about it at the level it's played in Europe. I am committed to being a fan of the Blues now but am really wanting to see CP be a part of it.  But I usually don't switch allegiances on teams when I root for them.   I've been following Chelsea this summer and hope to learn from you guys as the season goes along.

My first question is, is this dude going to be able to play with this team or not?  Over here, it's pretty rare for a 21 year old to be a superstar in a sport, so if a kid like CP was not playing it wouldn't be a big deal.  I don't understand your system of buying players.  Way different than here in our profressional sports.  Is it basically just total free agency?  Don't understand loaning a player.  Seems crazy unless it was to develop him I guess.   Any way cheers.  Hope to learn one of the club songs.  Always thought that was cool how you guys sing all game long.

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Just now, DumbYank said:

Howdy!  Got my fanny pack secured over my fat ass and under my cheap, watery beer belly.  Got my big, fuzzy finger with #22 on it.  I really overpronounce the r sound on the ends of my words and am here to talk some football.  But since you "chaps" don't know crap about football , let's talk some soccer.

 

I am from beautiful SW Indiana in the good ol' US of A and look forward to hopefully learning about the game and enjoying some conversation.  In all seriousness, I hope Pulisic breaks in for this team.  I've watched the game for a while, longer than most Americans, but hope to learn more about it at the level it's played in Europe. I am committed to being a fan of the Blues now but am really wanting to see CP be a part of it.  But I usually don't switch allegiances on teams when I root for them.   I've been following Chelsea this summer and hope to learn from you guys as the season goes along.

My first question is, is this dude going to be able to play with this team or not?  Over here, it's pretty rare for a 21 year old to be a superstar in a sport, so if a kid like CP was not playing it wouldn't be a big deal.  I don't understand your system of buying players.  Way different than here in our profressional sports.  Is it basically just total free agency?  Don't understand loaning a player.  Seems crazy unless it was to develop him I guess.   Any way cheers.  Hope to learn one of the club songs.  Always thought that was cool how you guys sing all game long.

Welcome to the forum!

Too early to say if CP will make it with us. We've invested a lot in him so we've clearly got high hopes, but the last player we spent a similar amount of money on (Morata) was a huge disappointment and is now on loan in Spain. Yes, CP is young, but with our manager that's no barrier to selection. He'll have to perform to his potential to earn and keep his place. We won't play him just because we spent a lot on him.

As for the system of buying players, it's just like trading for players in baseball, but 99% of the time money changes hands rather than players. As in US sports, the players are assets of the club they are contracted to, so they can be bought and sold.

Players are not free agents until their contract expires, so clubs do their best to tie players down to a contract to ensure they get money for them if they leave. 

The loan system is mainly to develop players, to ensure they get playing time while they are not ready to make it to the first team. Chelsea have probably the biggest squad of registered players in the world, with a huge number out on loan. The club knows that most of these are unlikely to make the first team, but has made a load of money in recent years by loaning them out and then selling them. A good example is Nathan Aké of Bournemouth, who only played a few games for Chelsea but did well on loan, and was sold for £20m. I think the club inserted a 'buy back clause', meaning we kept an option to buy him back in the future. Current players Abraham, Mount and Tomori have both played a lot of games on loan at other clubs, and the club is now reaping the benefit of that experience.

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Posted (edited)

So I think you are saying that Chelsea buys all sorts of young players knowing full well some won’t pan out at all.  That sounds a bit like baseball here only the salaries for most minor leaguers are much much lower than what CP is earning.  Baseball has like 30 or 40 rounds and they get the rights to those players for like 5 or six years.

What I meant by free agents is that it seems like any club could theoretically sign any young player they wanted.  There is no draft.  No club rights to unsigned young guys.  So in essence all potential players are free agents until they sign with someone?  Is that correct?

I have seen that Chelsea has other young guys playing and playing well.  It seemed weird to have so much invested in a guy like Pulisic, but I guess your saying basically that clubs like Chelsea, especially even Chelsea even, throw a whole bunch of very expensive lures in the water to catch a few very big fish knowing some of the lures won’t work out and then they cut bait with those guys and use them as assets?  Don’t know if what I am saying makes since or if many English people fish but appreciate your response.  Trying to get my head around this.

 

We cheered on Altidore but he didn’t seem good enOugh for Sunderland and ended up back here.  

Would Chelsea consider loaning him to another PL team?  That seems somewhat odd if he ended up hurting Chelsea on another squad.

 

Thanks for responding man.

Edited by DumbYank

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, DumbYank said:

So I think you are saying that Chelsea buys all sorts of young players knowing full well some won’t pan out at all.  That sounds a bit like baseball here only the salaries for most minor leaguers are much much lower than what CP is earning.  Baseball has like 30 or 40 rounds and they get the rights to those players for like 5 or six years.

What I meant by free agents is that it seems like any club could theoretically sign any young player they wanted.  There is no draft.  No club rights to unsigned young guys.  So in essence all potential players are free agents until they sign with someone?  Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct

Quote

I have seen that Chelsea has other young guys playing and playing well.  It seemed weird to have so much invested in a guy like Pulisic, but I guess your saying basically that clubs like Chelsea, especially even Chelsea even, throw a whole bunch of very expensive lures in the water to catch a few very big fish knowing some of the lures won’t work out and then they cut bait with those guys and use them as assets?  Don’t know if what I am saying makes since or if many English people fish but appreciate your response.  Trying to get my head around this.

Yes, exactly. Only a very small percentage of young players signed by professional clubs end up as full-time pros. And unlike in the USA, 99.9% of these young players do not have a college education to fall back on when their dream of a career in the game dies.

We cheered on Altidore but he didn’t seem good enOugh for Sunderland and ended up back here.  

Would Chelsea consider loaning him to another PL team?  That seems somewhat odd if he ended up hurting Chelsea on another squad.

 

Thanks for responding man.

A player on loan is not allowed to play against his parent club, which is very sensible (although they can play against the parent club in cup matches). So in reality, Chelsea loaning a player to a club who then scores against one of our rivals is a very good thing for us.

Altidore was an absolute disaster at Sunderland, I'm afraid.

We have another American in our squad - Matt Miazga, who played a couple of times a few seasons ago. He's now one of our many players out on loan.

Edited by Backbiter

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Posted (edited)

Hi, re Pulisic I kind of expect him to get more game time.

When we hit late November through to January the games come thick and fast and with being involved with four competitions he should get more game time.

What seems to have happened since he was bought is that the competition he brings has caused others to raise their games.

Another point is that most players in the European leagues find the EPL more physical and may need time to adjust their game.

Edited by Strider6003

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Very early days for Pulisic - No need for any concern, he really has all the goods to be a big star.

Because he went to Dortmund he got into 1st team action very early, as you can in that league so at just 21 he's got quite a bit of experience at a high level.

In some ways he's been a little unfortunate in his timing, arriving just as Chelsea have, owing to several factors coming together at the same time, finally given our very talented bunch of kids a fair go. They are an outstanding group of young players all around CPs own age and Lampard has for the moment favoured them a little ahead of Pulisic but that is not something to be too worried about. There's a load of games to play and he looks likely to be at worst first change and he'll get plenty of starts.

Chelsea's group of attacking midfielders is pretty strong now, Hazard has gone but Mount,CHO,Willian,Pedro and Pulisic and not forgetting Ruben Loftus Cheek is some roster and only 3 at most can play at one time.

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Posted (edited)

Loftus Cheek rarely plays more than a month due to a longstanding repetitive injury.

I doubt Pedro will be here past the end of the season.

Edited by Strider6003

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Exactly - Pedro and possibly Willian gone next summer. Of course the club may go large in the market next summer as well and they are going to have a BIG budget

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How does the football allowance work with fair play, can you carry over amounts you did not spend the season before or does it always need to be based on a ratio against revenue just on the previous season?

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Well it depends on how creative the accounting is but fundamentally its related to income - and that can accrue from year to year. Chelsea could probably fund a £100m NET spend in any normal year - a year with no spend should give enough twice that net, 

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So, how do you become "tougher" at his size playing the wing like that.  Look don't take what I am saying wrong. I'm not hopoing for a Messi.   But do you think Messi would have been able to be tough enough as a youngster to grind through the PL?  If so, why?  He probaby weighs less than Pulisic.  I understand that the Spanish league overall is inferior to the PL.

In basketball or in our football there is some technique that might help a guy appear "tougher" by sinking your hips before contact, etc.  One thing it looks like CP does is draw tons of fouls.  Is there like techinique or kinda like feel he's missing or maybe he just has to get used to contact?  

 

In my orginal post I said that no one would be worried in our professional sports if a 21 year old dude wasn't playing for one of the worlds premier clubs right away.  That would be silly over here.  But it also seems that the shelf life of soccer players is shorter than our sports.    

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Good core strength helps as it’ll help improve things like his balance etc. but he just needs experience of the league and learn a few coping methods. 
 

Hazard was so good at taking a kicking for 90 minutes because he knew it was coming, he learned how to ride tackles, ‘bounce off’ other players all while keeping hold of the ball. 
 

One common phrase we hear a lot in this league about new foreign players coming in is ‘they need a season to adjust’. If he keeps his head down, works hard in training and shows the right attitude his chance will come.  

Patience is a virtue!

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