Las7

He has not played as a striker with England's squad, he was recovering from meningitis at the Olympics, he has not been given 2 games in a row as a stiker at Chelsea. Torres's best form consists of him scoring a goal for every 210 minutes he is on the field. A thing Sturridge was able to do last season from the wing

Based on what? He was never given more than 1 game at a time as a striker with us. Torres was given nearly two years, last years Torres went 24 hours without a goal playing as a striker - yet I bet if I dig up your posts from the summer you probably said that this is Torres's chance now that Drogba is gone, well Torres got his chance and it's about time Sturridge gets his chance. Simple as that if we can afford to give Torres 2 years worth of chances - we can afford to give Sturridge chances for a month while we wait for the Transfer window to open. Fact is that his goals per minute ratio is quite good for a guy who never gets a run in the team, he might not be RvP or Falcao but it's not like we can sign them right now to replace Torres. There is plenty of games before the transfer window which might end up costing us this season. We need to see whether we would score more goals and win more points with a different player leading the line - right now that different player is Sturridge.

I said we should play Sturridge for at least a run of games before the Transfer Window! To actually give him a fair crack instead of saying he is not good enough based on 220 minutes this season mostly in one match or in games where he has came on for 10 minutes while we chase a result. Agree or disagree with me about that statement, but don't put words in my mouth.

Various managers have had reasons not to give him time up top: Like being under pressure to fit in Torres in the line up Having major figures in the dressing room like Anelka and Drogba in front of him Now we have neither any pressure to play Torres in every match after he has pretty much played every match for us and has had 1500 minutes on the field this season. There are no alternatives and there is still plenty of matches before the transfer window opens. Obviously someone felt he is adequate cover since we did not end up signing anyone else and send Lukaku out on loan. I don't know what is the "level we need" that you are referring to, but in terms of pure goal scoring - Sturridge has been better at putting the ball in the back of the net than Torres. He had a goal for every 209 minutes he was on the field last season, from the wing. The season before that he had played a total of 1521 minutes(both Bolton and Chelsea) so nearly the same amount of time Torres has played so far this season - and had scored a total of 12 goals - which translates to a goal per 126 minutes. Those type of figures which are far superior to Torres in both the number of goals and the time it took Sturridge to score them. I don't think I can even phantom how Daniel could go on 24 hours without a goal - yet he is not given a chance based on these two previous years, meantime Torres has been the outfield player who has played the most minutes this season for CFC despite never proving to be good enough for automatic selection.

Marin hasn't been at the club for 3 years though and he has been injured far more time than Sturridge this season. This is not the first season Sturridge hasn't been given a chance - recollect back on the winter we signed Torres. Anelka had 3 goals in the League by New Year; Drogba had 7 goals in the League by New Year; Kalou had 6 goals in the League by New Year; Danny had 0 starts in the League at this point was send on loan we got Torres, he outscored our combined strike force in the second part of the season - returned still wasn't given a fair crack as CF even as Torres went 24 hours without a goal and Drogba was out at ANC and was not playing any better than Torres in the League.

I love your hypocrisy, you want Sturridge shipped out because of his sh*t attitude yet, we need to get behind Torres after all the disrespectful stuff he has said about the club while he has been here. Unlike Torres, Sturridge actually has a reason to be unhappy, he has waited 3 years for a chance to play 2 games in a row in his favorite position - the position he has trained for his entire life. He went out on loan to Bolton to prove himself good enough for a shot at playing up top for us. He has never said anything degrading about the club or the fans despite being booed by people like you at the Bridge. Yet he has a sh*t attitude and we should ship him out.

I can tell you that even in the summer Tottenham and Arsenal were considering signing him - especially Tottenham. But they got Clint since he was very cheap. But Demsey isn't exactly setting the world on fire there unlike Dembele. Obviously I feel Sturridge would probably prefer going to Liverpool because he would pretty much be guaranteed to play next to Suarez at the top of their attack - considering the only other forward they have is Borini. I feel much like Berbatov he would actually want to go to a team that say "you'd be guaranteed a chance up top and if you take that chance you will become a first team regular here" . Cant think that Tottenham or Arse can guarantee him such a thing at this time - especially if Wenger keeps Theo by giving him opportunities to lead Arse's attack. While AVB would probably want him to play as inverted forward similar to how he used him here.

So you find it problematic when a striker is commenting about wanting to play in the position which he has trained his entire life? I find the whole defensive liability angle interesting considering Mata and Hazard aren't known for doing a lot of defensive work and do leave our wide back exposed just as much as Sturridge. But I don't see it as a problem if he was playing in his natural position. Greedy, might be - but I don't find that to be an issue. Strikers are supposed to be greedy. Decision making and a lack of a right foot are his real faults.

We won't play with two up top because it would make our midfield very lightweight - or we will end up dropping a far better player like Hazard/Mata/Oscar in order to play both. A flat 4-4-2 won't work because Mata and Hazard are traditional wide men who can assist in the defence Essentially the best formation with Torres, will involve him being SS behind the poacher but when we have guys like Hazard; Mata; Oscar; Lampard capable playing that position to a far greater degree it's a pointless ploy.

Either would have been massive improvement over what we have now

We should have gone for Berbatov in the summer. Imagining his capability to bring others into play while we have Oscar; Hazard and Mata buzzing around would have been quite sexy. His passing; first touch and technique are just on another plain - would have been the ultimate stop gap.

I don't know what you mean, I doubt anyone thinks if we play Danny he is gonna get a hat trick every game. I just think based on the last 2-3 years he is currently a better player to put your trust into if there is a one on one chances setup for him and he is not afraid of getting things wrong. The hesitation which Torres embodies now days I feel rubs off on the rest of the squad, my opinion is that they wonder: Is Fernando going to make the run he should be making, will he go for the 50/50 ball they play behind the defense in front of the keeper. There have been a lot of times where we are getting the ball to the flanks and Torres remains flatfooted, behind a defender - when most strikers in the EPL would either try to get in front of their marker or run towards the far post to pull defenders out of position. Torres mostly stands around the penalty spot with a defender covering the path of the pass - while Fernando expects the ball to be played into his feet. There is a reason Torres doesn't get too many easy goals after a touch to a cross/near post header/tap in from a yard away etc, mostly it's because of the lack of movement on his part once he enters the box. Even in his Liverpool days this was a symptom of the way he played he would take the ball into the area rather than be the target in front of the keeper - difference at that time was his capability to leave defenders behind and take a shot. Now days he lacks these key traits, so he needs to adapt his game but he has failed to do so - he still lacks the movement, while other times he is not even in the box during such situation because he is either ran off to the wing or is back in midfield well behind the rest of our players. I'd be happy for a player not to be too involved with our build up play - because we currently have Hazard; Oscar; Mata; Moses; Lampard; Ramires etc who can take the ball forward and transition our play from defense into attack. What we lack is a player who is making himself available inside the box for easy chances from open play. Torres's movement inside the box has lead him to scoring one easy goal this season against Reading - where he should have had far more of these tap ins. His hesitation in one on one situations have allowed defenders who are well behind him to get a final tackle in, or block his shots and this has wasted about eight opportunities so far this season for us to improve our goal difference and make live easier for ourselves in certain matches. We all know he is not the same player that was taring the Premiership a few years ago, he lacks the acceleration the speed, confidence and instinct he had that - there are flashes of what he is capable of but these flashes come few and far between and rarely win us points. At this point it's easy to say he will never be a World Class striker again, it's also not very difficult to propose trying a different player instead. We started the season with two forwards, Torres has had 1500 minutes on the field, he is still not doing particularly well playing in front of statistically some of the most creative players in Europe - so there isn't much to loose trying our alternative for a few games before we make a decision what our options should be in the Winter transfer window. Daniel has waited patiently here for a chance, 3 years - he has played as a forward mainly in less meangiful games against European minnows, Carling Cup games with reserve squads, possibly a game or two against Relegation contenders in the EPL. He managed to have a good stint with Bolton being the man who was playing on defender's backs - he returned after outscoring our strike force for 6 months(Anelka; Drogba and Torres); possibly thinking that would give him enough reasons for our management to give him a chance up top. We didn't sign a right winger so he was asked to play there regularly under AVB, he is not right footed and never trained to cross from such a position so he mostly played through balls and cut inside and shot - ended up outscoring Torres and Drogba that season despite going off the boil second part of the season. This season he might have been sold, but in the end he was kept as a back up to Torres - we have two strikers and the second one has played 220 minutes so far this season. Hernandez has played 700 minutes at United(3rd choice), Dzeko 600 minutes(3rd choice), hell even Adebayor has more time on the field than Danny at this point. He has waited enough we should give him a run before letting him go - simple as that, few players in recent times have shown this type of patience without throwing a strop. I have very little worry about Falcao's game - I just don't believe at the moment that there is a chance to sign him in the winter.

He was in a more prominent role yet scored half the goals Sturridge did here from more shots and 1/3 more time on the field in a team that scored roughly 20 goals less than we did in the League last season.

Yet you use Sturridge selfishness as a stick to beat him over the head with and promote Moses ahead of him because of his perceived selfishness. Please take your time and read the article below - Moses actually takes shots more often than Sturridge based on last year's statistics: http://www.eplindex.com/18484/wide-forwards-fashion-stats-comparison-moses-walcott-nani-sinclair.html

No one said a thing after he helped England win a penalty in their last competitive matches - I guess you also don't recall the time when the "selfish" Sturridge setup Welbeck

So you prefer to play a player who's highest goal tally is 6 goals and who was never played as a forwarding leading the line instead of Sturridge - that makes perfect sense. Lets give Sturridge a few games in a row and come back to this argument.

Sturridge might be a selfish player, but the folks in this thread will have us know that we should get behind all our players despite their cons. We have gotten behind Torres for two years, maybe put some trust into Daniel Sturridge for a change instead of making false statements which don't apply to players you personally dislike. So I can't comment when I feel strongly about an issue because my post count is low - well you surely made me feel welcome here.

How would you know if he has composure to score 20-30 goals a season? You are saying play Moses, when Sturridge who has a far better record in terms of goals scoring? You are saying Moses who played on the wing or in a support role at Wigan? Y We have a fresh option who has played 220 minutes and you don't want to use it - but you prefer to play two players who in the last 2 years have worse goal scoring records than him because he lacks composure. I ask you are you a troll?

Yeah hide behind the manager, it's exactly what I expected. I prefer to get behind Sturridge because I've spend enough time - two years to be precise waiting for the our best paid player to show his worth at the club while he essentially does what Kalou could have done with a smile on his face. If Kalou was still around right now I'd be getting behind him as well if he was our only other striking option but wasn't getting a chance.

Strange I'm the only one defending Sturridge when people say he ain't good enough despite never getting a chance up front for us.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Sturridge has been given 220 minutes on the field - he has scored two goals in this amount of time, but generally speaking you should give your second choice striker a lot more time on the field and than expect him to produce something. Most of the time Sturridge is brought on we are chasing a result with less than 10 minutes to go and we struggle to even get the ball into the box. As a parallel Chicharito has had 700 minutes on the field while he is competing with far better players than Torres. Dzeko has had 600 minutes on the field within a squad that also bolsters Kun; Tevez and Balotelli. Only Liverpool are in a similar position to us having to use Suares in most of their games and that's mainly due to their inability to score without him. On the other hand if anyone here seriously thinks that if you take Torres and replace him with Sturridge, Mata; Hazard; Oscar and our defenders would score less goals are deluding themselves. Mata; Hazard; Oscar are so good that they would create chances for themselves and even a donkey like Andy Carroll would score the occasional goal when he has them lined up behind him.

They won't sell Falcao to us in the winter, despite the fact that Madrid are cash strapped - Falcao could be the difference between qualifying for the CL and failing to do so. I don't need to tell you the difference between managing to qualify compared to failing - just think about where Hazard might have ended up if we had not won the CL last season. the Hunter is pretty much the same case.

Exactly, I'm not sure why some people feel that Daniel is a worse option than Torres at this point. He has played once as a striker from the start this season, other times he has had been brought on in matches when we are chasing a result and he barely gets a touch to the ball. 220 minutes of football - is not enough time for anyone to make a judgement. Played on the wing: Reading - 23 minutes Tottenham - 10 minutes Swansea - 18 minutes Played as a striker: Manchester United(CC) - 120 minutes Manchester United - 10 minutes(while we were down to 9 chasing a result) QPR - 10 minutes(chasing a result at 0-0) Donetsk(A) - 21 minutes(was part of our consolation goal; setup a one on one chance for Hazard) Donestk(H) - 1 minute Liverpool - 9 minutes Give him 2-3 starts in a row and it would be fare to say he is not good enough. Fact is the match against United was frustrating but at the same time - during that match he setup more chances for himself and team mates(Moses was setup 3 times, two of which were sitters) than Torres does in 5 consecutive matches. The fact that things were not going right for him did not have any effect on his mentality he continued to look for the goal and once he got it - his performance improved by a fine margin. With Torres, even after a goal he would sometimes have his head down, mentally not all there for 90 minutes. Fact is that Torres had 80 minutes on the field against Pool, he touched the ball 42 times yesterday, 26 of them directly resulted in a turnover, goal kick, or opponents throw. If you call that properly leading the line you're having a laugh - and Liverpool was not an isolated incident - he gets dispossessed/turnover around 5 times per match on avarage this season and his passing accuracy is 69.9%. Check out both statistics below: http://www.whoscored.com/Players/4056 To me there is little difference in what Torres offers than what Kalou might have offered if he was kept and played 1480 minutes pretty much without ever seeing the bench. Difference between the two is Kalou is making a pittance in wages, doesn't moan to the media about how he is utilize at every opportunity, and has a more positive outlook when playing even when things are not going his way. Kalou never earned a automatic start despite working as hard as Torres is working right now; there were not chants all game long bigging him up; there was no vocal forum support for him in any forum I've been on - yet he pretty much did what Torres is doing right now.

Long time since my last post, I remember being in the West Stand last season against City - a game during which Mario gave City the lead early on. I remember the lads sitting next to me moaning about Sturridge all game long. Too selfish, always taking the wrong decision, etc I bit my lips - didn't utter a word. Around the half hour mark he setup Raul's goal a few said a few words defending Sturridge at that point; later on in the game he won us a penalty which Lampard converted to win us the game. Fact is there was more cheering for Torres that match when he was warming up than for Sturridge when he came off. At that point I realized that people care more about Torres than any other players at the club. It always irked me, since he never earned such support while being at our club.