Not having watched the Juve game...

[TheWestwayWonder]

...I couldnt say exactly how accurate this assessment might be. But I think the opening few paragraphs of this article, despite focusing exclusively on Drogba, summarizes well the frustrations some people have with some of our players....NOT just him.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story...gue&cc=9999

When you have spent so long doing everything possible to make your manager look like a fool, it must be difficult to flick the switch and return to your best.

Several members of the Chelsea squad have spent much of this season trying to undermine the efforts of Luiz Felipe Scolari, so the departure of the Brazilian coach earlier this month could only be viewed as a reward for all their hard work.

While most of us have had spells when we have not been in full agreement with our boss, publically under performing in a bid to oust him from his post is the ultimate act of treachery and as Chelsea snapped into tackles and piled the pressure on Juventus in the opening exchanges of this Champions League tie, it seemed as if their instant transformation would expose them as back-stabbers of the highest order.

pure conjecture and guess work? maybe. Anti-Chelsea propaganda? maybe. But there is something in those lines.

They might not have had full confidence in their managers, but no matter how hopeless the situation might look, the fact that they are earning more in a week than 90% of people do in a year means they should leave it all out on the field, every game, no questions asked. It was my opinion that Scolari did himself no favors overall, but between a team lacking in some fundimental position strength, and the kind of effort I think it was impossible to ignore by some uncaring players that just hastened what was, to some, probably inevitable.

What happens if Hiddink starts to drop games, and results go south? Do the same characters start slumping their shoulders and stamping their feet? Dogging it out on the pitch? It doesnt matter if the manager is Coco the Clown, they play for the emblem on the front of their shirt, the 100 years of history behind it, and the 42 thousand fans singing their names when they walk on the pitch. If they cant be arsed to do that, then they shouldnt be arsed to pick up their paychecks.

All the usual names have been mentioned ad nauseum, so I wont bother with a list. But this team is in need of some serious youth and hunger this summer. And while we are getting it, it wouldnt be a terrible thing to think about character as well.

Edited February 27, 2009 by TheWestwayWonder

[Barn]

If players are so willing to put in below par performances deliberately to undermine a manager after such a short space of time, they are not worthy of the Chelsea shirt or the f*kin big pay packet that goes with it.

[TheWestwayWonder]

That is a good point that I didnt consider, Barn. The time. He was here 7 months, 5 of which we were actually playing. The first point at which things started going down the drain, you could see our fortunes disappearing slowly like paper down a flushed toilet, with no end in sight.

The Stoke game was the textbook occasion on which to stop the rot, and it didnt happen. It doesnt matter if Scolari's training was 100 years old. How about some backbone?

Edited February 27, 2009 by TheWestwayWonder

[Tea Bar Boy]

I think there is a big element of truth in this and feel the demise started towards the end of Jose departure. I am still convinced there was the starting of a major rift in the dressing room at the back end of Jose’s last full season with us with a lot of players sitting in the pro Jose camp but a few big names sitting outside it. The club has to take responsibility for this by forcing players on the manager and starting the unrest . If the stories are true and John Terry and Frank Lampard gave a really digging out to Mutu for his antics this has not been seen for a while.

After Jose the adversity seemed to pull the squad together as a unit and the momentum carried us on the champions league final and 2nd in the league . All hopes of a breath of fresh air disappeared under Scolari within a few months and the dived in the dressing room became a gulf .

All players perform on confidence and with a great deal of unrest , infighting , disillusionment and apathy, plus losing the glue that held it all together Steve Clarke, sapping players confidence in themselves and the club the performances showed this. I don’t buy into playing for the club is the driving force for any player to be honest it’s all about the money.

[Barn]

Another point to consider, I done the tour of Stamford Bridge and they made quite a lot of Terry and Lampard's influence in team decisions. They also stated that Terry decided that the English lads should all sit together in the dressing room, with the French speaking lads over there, and the African's over there, etc etc. I'm not sure that's really condusive to a harmonious dressing room, what happens if Essien and Kalou have a bit of a row in training - nothing serious, they just don't want to get changed next to each other. Are the forced to because their both African, or does one have to sit on his own because he doesn't fit in anywhere else???? It seemed a very strange way of doing things and I'm not sure it's the right way to do things. That said they spent a few minutes talking about it on the tour and it was designed to show what a fantastic influence JT is and how much respect everyone has for him so maybe it was only part of the story. Interesting though.

[Orangutan]

That is a good point that I didnt consider, Barn. The time. He was here 7 months, 5 of which we were actually playing. The first point at which things started going down the drain, you could see our fortunes disappearing slowly like paper down a flushed toilet, with no end in sight.

The Stoke game was the textbook occasion on which to stop the rot, and it didnt happen. It doesnt matter if Scolari's training was 100 years old. How about some backbone?

And of course against Stoke it was the hungrier, younger players (di Santo, Stoch) as well as Lamps who made the difference.

I wouldn't go so far as to consider Drogba and his ilk traitorous. Scolari simply wasn't playing Drogba. The manager showed little faith in him and never gave him a chance to play away the rust. Even now, he's still not quite back to his best. Scolari never gave him a chance to prove himself. Yes, he should have checked his considerable ego and been more happy to sit behind Anelka, but realistically a player of Drogba's quality is going to have a tough time swallowing not being in a starting lineup.

I also think there are players who are playing better just because of the quality of Hiddink's coaching. Kalou was always working hard under Scolari, but he seems to have raised his game under Guus. Ditto for Bosingwa.

I'm not entirely sure that the players weren't trying to give their best under Scolari. The manager does bear some responsibility for coaxing the best out of players and giving them inspiration. Sure, their absurd wages ought to be all the inspiration they need, but realistically even super-rich footballers need to motivated (flattered?) a little in order to have them playing at the peak of their potential.

On another note, if you read these articles only, you would have thought we lost! Realistically, Juve's best chances were well handled. The deflection was dangerous but never close to going in. Cech had Del Piero's shot well scouted. Absolutely, we lost control of the midfield and the game in general, but it's just strange to see opposing players named man of the match (I didn't think Nedved did anything special, honestly) and the writeups on a win over a top European club so negative!

I guess it just shows that big expectations are back under Guus. Or it shows how much the press truly and utterly hates Chelsea.

[Chippy]

Everybody knows that I think a lot of the blame for our results should rest on the players shoulders and as Tea Bar Boy says I think it started when Jose left but really reared its ugly head when Clarkey went and the last vestige of the Title winning era had gone with him.

That said I do doubt Scolari had his faults His English was not helping and the training was obviously not as tough as it should have been looking at our apparent lack of fitness.

I will say though that in my opinion Scolari done the exact right thing with Drogba, dropping him for two games when he had been our worst culprit in the bad attitude stakes at Old Trafford was spot on and bringing him back half a game at a time to bring his fitness back as well as show him Anelka had earned his main striker role was again in my opinion dead right, I see Hiddink is getting the credit for the masterstroke of bringing him back in but that was likely in Scolaris head to come next game anyway..and likely with a couple of wingers (Quaresma and Kalou or Stoch).

I don't know if that would be risky as I am not sure of their defending in a 4-4-2 but I always though with a fit and up for it Drogba that was his plan.

I do think it's time if we are going to give any new manager a decent chance here to stop going on about the ones before..the pro's and cons of Scolari and Jose are in the past and as at the time , we can't have any influence but to wait and see if Roman has learned anything and if he will give a manger his full backing in the Summer to see if we can make a proper challenge next season.

Hopefully a mix of the change of tactics, the new manager effect and the hopeful recovery of Carvalho and Essien will see us cement a CL spot and hopefully at least a runners up spot in the league and a good run in the other two competitions to give us something to look forward to.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Chippy