New to this guys. (posted on match chat too)

 

But have to vent somewhere. The results at this stage dont worry me. Its the structure and philosophy of our football. We seem caught in between styles. At times we want to press and win the ball back high (as most, if not all, good teams do). But we lack the necessary mobility and physicality to do so, therefore often resort to dropping deep and playing on the counter.

 

When I watch other teams play, I can see the way they work, as a team, and what they are trying to achieve. With us it seems half hearted, and without clear instruction. It seems in Mourinhos heart he wants us to play deep and counter as thats easier, and the style he is comfortable with. Yet his head knows the fans and the owner wont put up with that so instructs (at times) to push further forward. Even then our FBs dont take up high enough starting positions, our midfield are not brave enough to get on the ball in tight areas, and our Defense continues to drop deep at the mere sight of an attack.

 

All in all I just dont see an evolution (the word he persistently used when he first cam back) and it worries me. I dont us want to scramble to get points and results. id rather see us with a clear attacking style and mentality. If this means we lose the odd game so be it but with time the group will embrace and be better for this.

 

Thoughts?

Welcome Jamie

As a football fan something I don't understand is how players/teams can perform poorly or not play properly for the manager. End of the say they're been paid a sh*t load of money yet we constantly get these kinds of excuses, end of the day they should be busting a gut every match. We do seem unfit at the moment which I think is down to a late start to pre season but it's really frustrating.

Thanks Bobby.

 

Thats another point, with all the science in football now, how it is possible that our pre season seems so rushed and unorganised, Should be detailed out to a tee.

Thanks Bobby.

Thats another point, with all the science in football now, how it is possible that our pre season seems so rushed and unorganised, Should be detailed out to a tee.

It seems it's more of use for them to build the brand now, which is why we had those two post-season matches out in Thailand/Australia and then pre-season in the U.S. I get that it's important to build the brand but it's not helped with preparations for the new season. I guess it goes to show how important the money is now.

Last season our pre-season had very limited travel and it was very beneficial.

How I see it is that you need to play and adapt differently to different teams and different styles of play and think Jose is one of the best in the world at doing that, so I don't mind us switching our style of play between games or even in game to counter the other team or eve us playing a mixture of two. Just look at his record against teams that only have one way of playing football Barcelona and Arsenal. 

 Also I think  we currently have a squad that can play and adapt to play in whatever style suits, an example of us being able to play a very high pressing game Swansea last season in the 5-0 where it massively paid off (admittedly we didn't look fit enough to be able to do that on Saturday but hopefully the short pre-season means less fatigue in the middle of the season), but I don't think you can play like that against every team and I wouldn't want us to play like that against every team.  

Also I don't think with Mourinho that will ever happen as for him results will always come first and I don't think that will ever change,

Personally I think with the current strength of the league teams won't get away with playing attacking football weak in weak out and I think there will be a lot of upsets over the course of the season.  

Of course you have to adapt to different styles in different games. My point is, that in the majority of Premier League games we will be the superior team. Therefore the initial strategy will be to control and dominate the game. As it stands when this is the case, we seem to predictable in movement and pattern of play. And we also seem too slow to win the ball back quickly.

 

Its not about going all attack, its having the mentality to want to play, and dominate your opponents. We often seem to concerned with other teams strengths, rather than ours. For example when we do not have possesion, Fabregas's effect becomes completely Void.

 

In the main, you need to work on a philosophy, and for me we are doing neither (sitting back/pressing high) in lots of our matches. Look at all the Top European teams - Bayern, Barca, Juve, Madrid, PSG. They're movement and patterns of play are fluid and in Sync. In the main because they train and play to this strategy. They will all defend when they have to,, and will adapt when the time is right but they're first thought is to play to there strengths and outplay the opponents.

Granted are play looks a bit stagnate when we don't have Fabregas or Oscar on form and our main striker is out injured which is what we were going through in the second half of last season. Fabregas and Oscar are our prime creators so if they aren't on form then we are always going to lack a bit of fluidity and creativity,
but cast your mind back 6 months and the fluidity of our attack and the chances we were creating was 2nd to none in the league doubt it was ever on Barcas level but it was pretty damn good and we were dominating teams from the get go, so we clearly have the ability to and will be able to play in a fluid attacking way when we are able to. 

Edited August 11, 201510 yr by PedroMendez

I think that José does want to play a high line - at Real Madrid he did.  The problem here is that our backline doesn´t have a lot of pace and personally i believe that Terry (and Fabregas to a lesser extent) holds us back from being a full press type of team.  Azpi cannot go forward because his pace is needed to cover.  Hopefully in a couple of years with Stones, Zouma, Rahman and Azpi our defence will be very quick and we will be able to play a high line.

Agree that our defence lacks some pace and JT is a lot better defending deeper. However if implemented properly, pace shouldnt come into it as either the attacker will/should be offside, or because we have a high press, the ball forward shouldnt get there as there should be pressure on the opposition. If players such as mascherano and pique can do it, im sure we can.

 

My thoughts on the start of last season are that its the only time when we look to be working to a structure and plan of a high press. After the Tottenham game JM to me has reverted to type, and although he has asked us to do it in certain games, it doesnt seem like its a clear philosophy that we have been working and trying to improve on. The reason Barca are so good is that they have been working in that manner for many years and have perfected the style, both on and off the ball.

I would absolutely love us to beat the best teams in the world by completely dominating them in a way the likes of barca bayern and real are capable of doing.

I don't think it is possible at the moment though for a couple of reasons.

1. Mourinho natural instinct is nullify opponents, and find their weaknesses. He is probably the greatest ever manager at doing this. The very essence of what makes Mourinho the manager he is, would not allow him to play with 2 attacking fullbacks, centre backs pushed right up, and a team built with technique, rather than physicality and tactical nous.

2. As long as jt is still playing we will have to compensate at times for his lack of pace. This isn't a slight at jt, what he can give you in leadership and ability, has made it a worthwhile tactic playing to his strengths.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting us to play a certain way, there is no right or wrong way to play football, just opinions and preferences.

I'm not gonna start complaining if we don't play like the look 1970's brazil every week, but I would like to see us play more like we did at the start of last season, rather that like we did towards the end.

I would absolutely love us to beat the best teams in the world by completely dominating them in a way the likes of barca bayern and real are capable of doing.

I don't think it is possible at the moment though for a couple of reasons.

1. Mourinho natural instinct is nullify opponents, and find their weaknesses. He is probably the greatest ever manager at doing this. The very essence of what makes Mourinho the manager he is, would not allow him to play with 2 attacking fullbacks, centre backs pushed right up, and a team built with technique, rather than physicality and tactical nous.

2. As long as jt is still playing we will have to compensate at times for his lack of pace. This isn't a slight at jt, what he can give you in leadership and ability, has made it a worthwhile tactic playing to his strengths.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting us to play a certain way, there is no right or wrong way to play football, just opinions and preferences.

I'm not gonna start complaining if we don't play like the look 1970's brazil every week, but I would like to see us play more like we did at the start of last season, rather that like we did towards the end.

We dont have to try and emulate barcelona. But there is a middle ground...we found it at the beginning of last year, and I think that was because there was a clear philosophy and plan in place to evolve the current crop into consistently playing like that in the future. Look at alot of JM interviews, he is often using 'high block', 'philosophy' and 'evolution'

 

This seems to have completely been discarded and now we are back to being setup not to lose, particuarly against the big teams. Where is this evolution? 

We dont have to try and emulate barcelona. But there is a middle ground...we found it at the beginning of last year, and I think that was because there was a clear philosophy and plan in place to evolve the current crop into consistently playing like that in the future. Look at alot of JM interviews, he is often using 'high block', 'philosophy' and 'evolution'

This seems to have completely been discarded and now we are back to being setup not to lose, particuarly against the big teams. Where is this evolution?

I always thought we reverted back to being pragmatic due to losing 5 at spurs, and not having a strong enough squad to play like that week in week out. I agree the evolution isn't really happening. We still have more players suited to on the counter, than we do playing a 'high block' or a pssession game.

I always thought we reverted back to being pragmatic due to losing 5 at spurs, and not having a strong enough squad to play like that week in week out. I agree the evolution isn't really happening. We still have more players suited to on the counter, than we do playing a 'high block' or a pssession game.

I agree thats when we reverted, do you agree with doing so? It feels like we give up with it.

 

I think players like hazard, Oscar and Cesc are more suited to the High Block. Yet Willian, Matic, Costa, terry more the other way. This is why I say we seem stuck between styles alot of the time.

I agree thats when we reverted, do you agree with doing so? It feels like we give up with it.

I think players like hazard, Oscar and Cesc are more suited to the High Block. Yet Willian, Matic, Costa, terry more the other way. This is why I say we seem stuck between styles alot of the time.

It's hard to disagree as we won the league.

We seem to be pushing hard for stones, and I think long term that would allow us to push higher up the pitch and press further up again. Whether we sign him though is in the balance. The window is still open and if we want to get back to that style we played at the start of last season, I think we need another centre midfielder that can dictate tempo. Someone like witsel would be perfect as he would compliment either matic or fabregas, and could also play with both if we needed to be more solid.

It's hard to disagree as we won the league.

We seem to be pushing hard for stones, and I think long term that would allow us to push higher up the pitch and press further up again. Whether we sign him though is in the balance. The window is still open and if we want to get back to that style we played at the start of last season, I think we need another centre midfielder that can dictate tempo. Someone like witsel would be perfect as he would compliment either matic or fabregas, and could also play with both if we needed to be more solid.

 

Definately agree with someone who dicates the tempo. Need a player who is continuosly looking for the ball off the CBs, with good forward vision to get us going.