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  1. Exactly. We should all be treated as equal and our skin colour shouldn't matter. The people in here seem obsessed with peoples skin colour. It's disturbing. Just to add, the post you replied to said "a white bloke telling a black bloke what is and isn't racism doesn't sit well with me. No matter how much they keep saying that's what I'm saying, I haven't actually said this. All I said is I'm not going to find someone guilty of racism, or someone the victim of racism when there is zero evidence that is was racism. The victim thinking it was racism isn't enough. A perfectly sensible and reasonable position to take.
  2. It has everything to do with flagging! It's standard for police and prosecutors to use that definition to flag a case as racist, but that is all. They obviously won't try and prosecute for any racial crimes based on the victims word and no evidence. The fact the CPS might consider it a racist event doesn't actually mean anything. The fact is the victim legally can't decide if a case is racist. This is a fact. I follow the same standards as our legal system. My post was from the CPS Prosecution Guidelines. Posting a bit from a 20 year old newspaper article is so stupid. Also, I didn't actually make the claim that I decided if any abuse was racially motivated or not. So all that stuff you said at the end is irrelevant You're putting words into my mouth again. I said that someone claiming abuse was racist doesn't automatically make it racist. That's a very different thing to your lies you're making about what I'm saying. I'm saying there has to be evidence and not just accepting the word of the person involved, especially when that person involved doesn't know himself if it was racially motivated. Exactly same standard as our legal system.
  3. Yes, Boris, you are. In the same column, he railed against the Macpherson reforms, which were proposed in the wake of the murder of Stephen Lawrence. These reforms have since become the standard for prosecutors. They allow victims and third parties to define if something is racist. Johnson wasn't keen, saying it was "Orwellian stuff" from the "PC brigade"." A bit from an article in The Guardian from 2000. Really? That's the definition the CPS use to flag a case as racially motivate, but they can't prosecute someone for it and flagging a case doesn't mean it definitely is a racial event and the other person was racist. "Flagging is a subjective question. Flagging a case puts the CPS on notice that someone at some stage has perceived the incident that gave rise to the case had such an element of racial or religious hostility or prejudice to it. For a conviction to receive enhanced sentencing in court the police need to provide sufficient evidence to prove the hostility element, however this is not required for flagging purposes." So someone can claim an event is racially motivated, but that doesn't mean it was and I have to believe it.
  4. We are all aware that black people get stopped more than white people, and using the stats would have been a sensible argument that I would have agreed with. Instead all that was provided was a couple headlines (which didn't show anything) and anecdotal evidence about being searched once when he was 15 years old. It's not even a horrible story. He just got searched once when he was 15. Hardly a big deal. They were awful examples to use to prove racism and I'm not going to be told that I have to accept a certain event was racism without evidence because the person feels it was racism, or because of the colour of my skin making my opinion not matter (which is an outrageous thing to say!). There is a chance is was racial, and the police stop black people too often, but that doesn't prove that Bruto's case was racial, and I'm never going to jump to conclusions and say his case definitely was. People were jumping to conclusions over CHO arrest in here and I said everyone should wait and not jump to conclusions. I don't jump to conclusions with anything as I know better then to make my mind up without the full story. Maybe that comes from people jumping to conclusions with my situation. Now there is a problem a huge with the police stopping black people more than whites that needs to be dealt with, and there is systemic issue in the police. The evidence is clear on that and that needs to be dealt with. That's not a debate, but that also wasn't what was being debated.
  5. Neither can I. It seemed certain that Werner was going to liverpool. Massive for the club that we managed to get him!
  6. You've actually just proven my point. I don't think you have been reading what I've been saying either as you've backed up what I'm saying. I was very clearly told Bruto's case was racism and I had to believe it. That's what I take issue with. If you accept that not all wrongful arrests of black people aren't racially motivated, then you have to accept my view that Bruto's being searched doesn't have to be because he was black based on the information given. My whole point is you have to judge each case individually and not just assume that because a black person was searched it was a racist event like Valerie claimed. So thank you for backing up what I've been saying the whole time. The football season is starting up again. Let's get back to football.
  7. I actually think you guys are the ones trolling.
  8. That's a silly thing to say. Of course we can determine what does or does not constitute a racist act. We all know the definition of racism and can all know what a racist act is. Assuming you've told the full story, of course that was a racist act. Why would I say otherwise? I've never said their aren't police who are racist. I don't believe in generalising large groups of people tho. Our police try to de-escalate while in America we don't. I'm not saying our police are perfect, I've spent 8 months in prison and slept on the streets because of them and I suspect foul play, but it is nothing like American police. Racism isn't anywhere near as bad either. It's a different level over there.
  9. Yes I understand, and haven't said anything otherwise, but that doesn't mean his case was because of racism. His experience isn't even sad as he was only searched, doesn't actually prove anything or add anything to the discussion. No one is saying racism doesn't exist (how many times do I have to say this?), but that doesn't automatically mean Burto's case had anything to do with racism. You can't just decide every black man searched is because they are black. Burto's was silly to give that as an example of racism. 1, Being searched at 15 isn't anything major and happens all the time, 2 it doesn't prove, or even suggest racism. You seem to be trying to put words into my mouth and claim I'm saying things I'm not.
  10. I agree with you on America. We're far from perfect in this country, but we're so much better than America when it comes to racism and how the police behave.
  11. It will be interesting to see. I suspect you're right, but Werner can also play off the left. I suspect CHO will start of the bech with all the options we have, but as you said, will get lots of chances through the season to make an impact.
  12. Bruto's has no idea of the police intention that night. The police did something to him that has happened to me several times, but I'm being told I have to believe the police did it to him because he is black, despite there being nothing to suggest it, just because he thinks (doesn't actually know) that's why. That's ridiculous! I don't jump to conclusions without facts just because someone makes an allegation (which isn't actually based on anything other than what he thinks). It's a reasonable position to want some evidence that something happened because of racism instead of automatically believing it must be racism, and so accusing the people involved of being racist. The fact this position doesn't sit well with you says more about how you think than anything else. Do you believe everything that people say? Do you believe everything that people believe is true? Or do you look at the facts to decide?
  13. If he's considered good enough start, I'm sure he will. I'm not saying he will start, but I would be surprised if what's happened will have any impact on the decision.
  14. Yes. Good idea. I apologise for playing my part in ruining this thread.
  15. There's no anger from me. You're making things up again. You also clearly didn't read the posts. This is what I'm talking about people not being able to have a sensible discussion about racism. You're getting too emotional and can't debate anyone with a different opinion to yours without bringing my race into it (white anger 🤣) and being childish. I treat everyone the same no matter what the race. You're the one who changes his opinion based on what someone's race is. You're the one who says some races opinions matters less than others. People like you are part of the problem. Stop seeing people's race and judge each incident on it's own merit and each person the same, no matter what race they are. I deny a incident is racist when you and Bruto's have no idea if it was a racist incident. Something bad (not that it was even bad) happening to a black guy doesn't automatically make it racist. It's childish and an unintelligent way of thinking. Yes perception doesn't count. Just thinking something is racist doesn't mean it is. Intention and facts are what count, not how it is perceived. What if the police were just doing their jobs and following up on the information they had and there was no racist intent but Bruto's thought it was racism, would it still be a racist incident? Of course not.
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