talkofthetownsend

he has competition for his place. lots of it. & the answer is "more than mikel". which doesn't appear to scream "good enough for jose" to anyone.

he's started 4 league games this season out of 12. 6 out of 19 in all competitions. "good enough" to be a rotation option under jose while we have our weakest midfield options in years? again, praise indeed.

fair enough. and praise indeed. managers have also "sometimes" relied on kalou.

i'm not saying he is wrong. that is a matter of opinion. but when you say "Managers always rely on him especially on the bigger occasions", you are wrong. that is a matter of fact.

ditto. but at least i'm right.

your stats are wrong. i sense i may have learned why. the cl win was under rdm, as was one of the fa cup wins. he started the 2007 fa cup final cos ballack was injured. didn't start the 2008 cl final or either semi against liverpool. didn't start the 2009 home game against barca or either qf game against liverpool. didn't start either leg of our cl qf against utd in 2011. so even in periods where he could be considered first choice (going by stats) he was getting dropped for big games. he wasn't first choice under avb and didn't start in the biggest games under avb. he wasn't first choice under rafa and he didn't start in the biggest games under rafa. so far this season, under jose, he hasn't been first choice and he hasn't started in the biggest games. so: only one of our managers has truly and consistently relied on him, especially on the big occasions: rdm. like i said. in response to someone saying the complete opposite, and being wrong.

The only two seasons he has the stats of a regular starter are 2008-09 & 2010-11...and he was dropped to the bench for the biggest games we played in both seasons. hence my comment. edit. and your stats are wrong anyway.

rdm is the only chelsea manager who has truly and consistently relied on him, especially on bigger occasions.

i don't "want" to "narrow the scope". the award is for the best footballer in africa in 2013. in that context, him having won a lot of trophies in other years is meaningless. in another context, that kalou can pretty much match his trophy haul, it is meaningless in general. it's kinda damning considering africa do actually consider themselves a major football continent and having a guy win who has only started 14 games for his club this calendar year is a bit of a step down from the likes of eto'o & drogba in their primes. essien was never african footballer of the year, even at his best and he was first choice in a better midfield than we have now, whereas mikel is back-up. so, yeah...damning. an indication of a fairly obvious dip in the standards of the very top players from that continent.

actually, you attacked this post: twice. and i pointed out your attack was flawed...in fact, it made no sense. you didn't really have a response to that, so you started talking about something that neither you, i or the original poster were talking about...now you won't even respond on the subject...just this weird pedantic thing you're doing to dodge the topic. i have no idea why you are acting like this. perhaps you are strange. perhaps you are trolling. whatever, if you would like a response, try to stay on topic.

sorry...but this whole discussion is you attacking one post. "damning stuff".

no...i'm looking to point out that your argument was flawed... and then i was looking to point out that you had moved to goalposts of the discussion rather unsubtly.

i must have missed you mentioning that in your post. you know, the one i replied to (or indeed, the follow up post on the same subject). cos you didn't, ya freaking genius.

wow. he did all that in 2013? no. he didn't. nice you give him credit for the el win though. without his sterling job marking the bench for the whole game, who knows what might have happened? maybe it's "damning" because he's an african player at a top club who has started a grand total of 14 games in all competitions so far this calendar year. if that's the best african player then god help the continent. (kalou is only one trophy off that haul btw...the el...and if he were voted the best player in africa, that would be pretty damning too).

would be a great post if anyone had said that.

i think he was clearly taking issue with you saying that the problem with the team was that "our attacking players aren't doing their job properly" (which you claimed) and instead saying that they were having a harder time doing their job because the "midfield players (notice the pluralisation) behind them are not doing their job properly". you know...cos that's what he said. illiterate.

yes. "the midfield". not just mikel. you went on a rant about how it wasn't solely "mikel's fault" in which you used the words "mikel's fault" 4 times and claimed that "Obi is getting all the grief here". when he wasn't. imo he is right that our midfield is a problem. it's been a problem for 3 years (possibly longer...but it's noticeably been a weakness for that time period imo). mikel is part of that, but he is not solely to blame, and up until your rant, no-one said he was.

as a man who takes issue with others' comprehension of the english language, you will perhaps appreciate better than most that the post you are replying to was referring to "the midfield" and not solely mikel.

i thought we were talking about managers picking mikel. cos we were. if you wish to talk about honours, i believe we have underachieved in that sense during his time here. i don't blame him for that, but it's worth pointing out imo.

that quote was a reply to a post of mine...and look at what you bolded: "you can hardly say he was a first team fixture this season, or last season under rafa, or the season before under avb. he was in and out of the side in carlo's first season as well before we let all the competition leave on free transfers. jose hasn't really tinkered with mikel's position either. he's just not playing him." so that's what we were talking about. my post, the part you bolded, the conversation we were having. if you wish to say that rdm considered him a first choice...then fine. he most certainly did. i wouldn't argue with that. but it isn't really what i was saying. so yeah. illiterate...ditto i guess.

i sense this is going to become quite circular. "every manager picks him" "not every manager has picked him" "well...those managers are crap then."

under avb, rafa and this season? you are most definitely mistaken. perhaps take you own advice. regardless...i do not believe that him being picked or not proves anything. that is your argument. i'm just pointing out that you are mistaken in the specifics of your own argument.

under rafa, avb and this season? you are mistaken.

you can hardly say he was a first team fixture this season, or last season under rafa, or the season before under avb. he was in and out of the side in carlo's first season as well before we let all the competition leave on free transfers. jose hasn't really tinkered with mikel's position either. he's just not playing him. yeah...i would rather have him in the team than lamps right now...but that's more an illustration of how weak our options are, rather than a testament to his quality. tbh we have been weak in that area for too long, which is fairly plain to see...& part of the reason why i don't believe that him being in the team or squad is any indication of anything.

only if they agree with you it seems.