BaneIvanovic

No, because they're two different situations. I personally didn't find Hulk's performance today disappointing/underwhelming because of how he usually plays for his country but it may have been for others who had talked him up etc and saying things like him being a 'game changer'. Messi is incomparable because 1. he's the best player in the world 2. he is under the biggest scrutiny when he plays for Argentina and 3. he's 9/10 Argentina's best player in their game Let me rephrase. I don't think they'd have done as well in the Group Stages without his contributions (ie. Higuain wouldn't have been able to be knocking them in for fun) and I don't think they'd of gotten past Mexico in the last 16 w/out Messi's contribution. Messi for Argentina and Hulk for Brazil are two different kettle of fish.

No, the reason they got knocked out was Tevez missing a penalty. Yes their WC run, he was the playmaker of the side and was practically running the show until they hit a brickwall in the German side. I'm surprised they did that well given they had Maradonna as manager.

Off the top of my head, their WC run, the Copa America game where they were KO'd by Uruguay on pens.

The thing I love about Hazard is his both footedness

It is an answer to your question. Yes, yes he does.

Messi is usually Argentina's best player every game. The poor bloke can't play all the positions in the team

Because it elevates the expectations that people will have (people as in fans, journalists, other memebers of the media such as pundits) which will have a negative effect on him, the club etc if he doesn't live upto them Hulk is a 'game-changer' though. Brazil were pretty poor generally, but this isn't a Brazil topic (out of the Brazilian players, Oscar did look quite good though)

I have never said in any way, shape or form that I hope that he will flop. I was merely saying he's not an £38m worthy signing.Hoping that a signing will flop is ridiculous, but I am - for a number of reasons - cautious about the signing.

Was phenomenal vs Mexico.

If he [Hazard] was pulling our legs, there would be confirmation by our club and by him (amongst others) if it was a hoax.

The Cahill thing went on longer than we would've like because Cahill's initial wage demand

Yeah, cause surely he can do the medical and sign at Cobham.

If this were Lavezzi who we were getting, you would wouldn't be waxing lyrical on the levels you are about Hulk.With regards to Gotze, he's not a winger. That is all (he's played half his Dortmund games on the right and half at AMC) but he is not a winger. It's like calling Nasri a left winger.

You will never, and I mean never, be able to judge a signing on the strength of their opening 20 games.Look at Chicharito, he had a good 1st season at Utd but was terrible this year so who knows if Hulk will have the 'second season syndrome' (although, I don't buy that for Chicharito's case). In the words of the Special One - judge him if he's worth it when he leaves the club.

That doesn't mean I'm being subjective with my opinion of him as a player, it's just me stating whether or not he's currently worth £38m (which is what we're paying on his current ability, which is different to the Hazard transfer). I never said that Hulk was a bad player or that he's some scrub it's just that when Davey rambles on about 'game-changer' and stuff like that without providing examples etc that I have a different opinion and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter if/when he comes.

Don't try and bring the Gotze thing as part of you're argument - it was occuring before his name was brought up. If you want to continue the debate about Gotze, PM me.You were countering my opinion from Hulk 10 pages back, so the Gotze thing has nothing to do with it. Fact is, we've got different opinions about Hulk (not interms of ability but moreso about the trasnfer itself) yet you're not really being objective with your arguments

None at all, generally on other issues we're relatively on the same wavelength but evidently Hulk seems to be a touchy subject for you

Yeah. I'd be surprised if Malouda didn't got there too (however, apparently he's had some lucrative offers from Turkish clubs)

Sorry OBG, I bow down to your greatness. Your opinion is the pedestal for all others, how dare anyone have a contrasting opinion to yours and how naive of me to think that you could possibly be wrong. Re - Gotze. Ask any of your beloved scouts, journos etc where they think Gotze's natural position is and the answer will be AMC. That's all I'll say on the matter. Are you Portuguese btw?

No I didn't, I merely stated that Gotze's natural position is AMC when you told said he's a right winger.

Essien is completely gone as a player, he lacks any mobility and isn't as robust as he once was. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt when he was nursing his way back from injury but everytime he's played, he's looked woeful (bar a decent-ish game vs Arsenal at the Emirates). The thing is, he offers nothing more than any other option we have at CM and he can't play the box-to-box role in midfield that we've come accustomed to seeing over the seasons, which is shame. His name/reputation could still garner something like £10m and if an offer like that came for Essien in the summer, I think it's a deal we'd have to take (he's won everything now so might be easier to let him leave)

Your comprehension is actually appalling. I've said there are, obviously, players that come out of Portugal and succeed but likewise it produces many flops and the thing I said with regards to Hulk are that he won't replicate his Porto 'stats' (seeing as you're so hung up on mentioning his stats) for a variety of reasons that include the fact that he's not gonna be playing in a system solely tailored to suit his strengths nor will he be a focal point of the side (or the star of the show, you could argue). Chuck in the fact that he's fairly average for the Brazilian team leaves me rightfully cautious about the signing.I've yet to hear you or Davey utter a negative thing/flaw about Hulk which would suggest that he must be the best player in the world (I believe you're also mixing fact with opinion but hey ho)

But you're not, because I follow Dortmund in Germany quite extensively and they set up like this (whilst Gotze was out for the majority of this season)Kuba -- Kagawa -- Grosskreutz --------Lewandowski----------- And when he plays they set up like this Kagawa----Gotze---Grosskreutz ----------Lewandowski------------- and in this system Kagawa and Gotze roam about so that you may well see Gotze playing on the right and Kagawa in the middle (and vice versa). His natural position is AMC but has the versatility/ability to function well on both wings (yes, that's the left too) I love how you try to 2nd guess my comments based on your opinion and think you're 100% correct and that people who differ in opinion are wrong/biased or whatever nonesense you spout. Please don't bring Ronaldo into this argument because he is clearly on another wavelength from all the players in the world apart from Messi, who's better than him, and I don't see what you're trying to say really. He was bought when he was young for £12.5m for United and it took him 3/4 seasons before he showed signs of being a class player. I could also bring you Quaresma who was also at Sporting and a highly rated youngster (at the time, even rated higher than Ronaldo) and where is he now? That's right suspended from playing football at Besiktas. He is still the more skillfull player between the two but flopped at Inter, Chelsea, and Barca (although, that was injury related to a degree). I already told you my points about Hulk yet you go on a complete tanget

Thought Mertens had a good game yesterday - Johnson must be having nightmares of him. Was clear to see that he has incredible pace, dribbles well/effectively, good range of passing and provides width for that Belgium side (also can score goals as he got 21 goals in 36 for PSV this season playing on the wing) and I for one like him. Don't think we need him but would do well at a big side.

Gotze's not a right winger, he's an AMC. Adam Johnson is the epitome of a MOTD player, a good impact player to have off the bench but start him in a game and he's lost. Sorry, how could I forget that Porto=Hulk. Despite losing Falcao, Porto still have the best side in Portugal by far and you're doing a disservice to the likes of James Rodriguez, Moutinho, Fernando, Lucho and certain members of their defence by singling out Hulk in all of this. As for our transfer policy - £23.5 or whatever the fee was for Mata, £6.5m Marin, £7m KDB, £7m Courtois, £32m Hazard are all smart transfers because even the high fee transfers are built for the future and will be worthwhile in the longrun. £38m for Hulk fits in neither category (sensible fee nor is it a long term thing). And no, Falcao probably hasn't fulfilled his pricetag but is certainly going along the right way to do so.I've yet to hear you say a negative thing about Hulk, surprisingly.