venom2011

I opened this thread to expect some love for the guy as he had a very good night last night, but.....deary me. Most tackles, interceptions and recoveries, put in a real shift and ran his butt off, and he made some crucial recycles under big pressure. I wonder how some fans watch the games if I'm honest.

6 months late and after Morata asks to leave...

Agreed. But he is of course here to change the style of football. So this is the time you need a director of football and the manager to sit down and discuss the immediate priorities. Instead he has to speak to Marina and we probably know how that goes.

Losing is never acceptable but again I ask: Did you expect a flawless season while Sarri changes the style of football at THIS club? Pep had structures in place, more players in place to make his system work, and they lost 4-0 to Everton.

Agreed. It is done and handled probably as best as everyone could after the fact. But it will not stop me thinking about how 1) A player could possibly do that 2) How Azpi handled it. I honestly wouldn't object to him being stripped of the captaincy next season.

100%

You see here is the kind of moment where a kid has acted bang out of order. So the parents need to make a decision - spank him or let him apologize (both decisions have pros and cons). The problem is that the 'softer' route will work depending on the personality of the kid. The spanking should be effective regardless and at the very least re-establish the power dynamic. For me, it's a spanking all day!!!

I'm sorry but Jorginho has hardly had a bad game. He's just not set the world alight and the team as a collective have been poor. I can't think of one mistake from him on the ball that has directly led to a goal. Bakayoko made errors every game and almost never snuffed out danger. What a pathetic thing to do to one of your own players. I was tremendously disappointed last night.

Yes, that's what we want to see. And yet it's become obvious that is impossible with the current squad. I still feel the sack is too soon. I'd like to see where the team lies at the end of the season, have the board decide if that is acceptable given the tools he's had to work with and then maybe give him another 6 months to show improvement with new blood and a full preseason. I don't know how some fans can complain about the short-sighted nature of the board and then call for his head so soon. And in the same breath question the decision of the under pressure manager to not play youth.

Classic case of whoever is not in the current team is better than those who are.

That's an overstatement. As I've shown earlier, we are conceding at a similar rate to last year. We are definitely in a pretty bad patch right now though. If you were to turn back the clock on the last 4 league matches (including 5-0 huddersfield) then we were conceding 0.77 goals p/g vs Conte's 1 p/g. And that's Conte's 2nd year, with players used to that style of football. A couple of bad scorelines is not enough to suggest that Luiz and Rudiger have had bad seasons. They have both been decent, but not great - and certainly not terrible. The same goes for Azpi, Kante, Jorginho, Pedro, Kepa, Christensen. Which is about right if we're languishing around 5th. The reason I say Luiz is improved is that even Luiz at his peak, under this system, with this high defensive line, would have made many more errors than his doing now. He has largely been solid and winning most of his 1v1s. The same goes for Rudiger. I've seen more issues with the squad as a whole - the attackers not pressing properly, huge spaces between the lines etc. All of which I expected at the start of the season. The only players I think have truly let us down consistently are Willian and Alonso.

Sure. Well, unless someone can convince them otherwise but that would entail a fully constructed, coherent discussion with two willing participants. Which is difficult when some prefer just popping off 4-worded rebuts.

10/10 argument.

Signings under Sarri and Sarri signings are two different things. You know how this club works. Which one is Pulisic? Again you saying he was shipped out to accommodate Higuain rather than a push from the player or a because Morata was simply trash, does not make it true. And the club brought in Giroud just the season before. The club policy changed before Sarri's arrival. ''Morata is potentially a very good player. He has the characteristics for playing in my team, but one month ago he said he wanted to play for another team."

I can guarantee you that those stats are as close as you will get to being relevant for topic at hand. There is no such thing as comparing apples to apples in football debate. Everything has a caveat. Those are official EPL stats only. 1. So you've decided Kovacic is his signing? Ok. All we know is he asked for another midfielder 'with a different profile'. The club gave him the convenient option (Courtois deal). And we signed a more experienced Ross Barkley. 2. Yes those academy wingers who become instant game changers at top clubs are so rare aren't they? 3. Jorginho, the newly signed Higuain, Kovacic (your claim) and who is the fourth? 4. He was brought here specifically to try to implement his system. I agree that for his own sake he has to tweak something. Conte was brought here to bring stability and attempt to play attacking football (Jose was confused by this very thing). Conte first tried 4-2-4 and 4-3-3. The board tolerated the change to defensive football because of results. When the results stopped, so did Conte. 5. Those sentences are in no way a contradiction. You don't seem to understand that the subjective bit is your perception of the players' lack of improvement. 6. Again, that is a matter of perspective but I agree. Except that the squad isn't good. It is unbalanced. They won a title on the back of having two good goalscorers and no real challengers (Pep/ Mourinho first season and Tottenham coming a close second should highlight this fact). Winning an unexpected title and not improving the squad is no foundation at all .

Luiz (only 10 appearances last season in the league) has been good this season despite the high defensive line - which I never thought would be possible. Rudiger has been better than last season for me. Kante is better in the attacking third. Hazard is still on track to have his best goal-scoring season since he left Lille. The same with Pedro since he left Barca.

So essentially you would like Sarri to turn a midfield of Kovacic, Jorginho, Kante, into goalscoring/goalcreating machines? Turn Willian into someone who can score more than 4 goals a season on average. Turn back the clock on Pedro. Make Alonso productive in the final third while still having the recovery pace and stamina to maintain our defensive solidity. Sarri vs Conte (last season) by the numbers (and bear in mind the kind of football we played under Conte, and the system): Sarri - 1.73 goals p/g. Conte - 1.63 goals p/g. Sarri - 1.1 goals conceded p/g. Conte - 1 goal conceded p/g. Sarri - 2.2 big chances created p/g. Conte - 1.6 big chances created p/g. That's essentially the same team - Jorginho, Kovacic, Moses and Cesc considered. The one team is only marginally worse in goals conceded despite changing formation and style, also not having players suited to the system. Both teams struggled with goals and I'll tell you what - even if you change the manager the team will continue to struggle for goals. You can give Pep this squad and we'd be in the same position with a slim chance of being more solid defensively. You might not be able to 'think of a single thing that we do better under Sarri' but that's by nature subjective. And as I've said before, Sarri is not the end game. The end game is to play good, attacking football ; with a good squad ; and with the right structure at the club.

This. Whatever you think of Sarri, Sarriball, his naivety etc - he would have had time if the team had goals. Even that injury-hampered United team on Monday had 4 proven goalscorers and 2 proven creators. Our best XI has 2 goalscorers (1 of which is brand new to the league) and 1 creator. It's not going to matter whether you move Kante deeper, revert to an old system, or submit your soul to satan himself. The only difference will be giving up control of the game and being slightly more defensively solid. Do I think Sarri is the perfect man for the job? No. But as long as we are not languishing near the relegation zone a la Jose mk.2, I think any manager should at the very least be given a full season. And as I've said before - If the club's philosophy matches the manager's (as we've been told), then we should be getting players to fit his system regardless. People also seem to forget that Sarri has been in this situation before, with the fans on his back as well. ADL backed him regardless and it eventually bore fruit.

'Easily WOULD have' ? Nice crystal ball you have there.

Agreed but Sarri-ball is not the end-game, it's the start. We want to see a similar philosophy. The club, for all intents and purposes, want to see it as well. I'm sure that factored into the decision to sack Conte. I absolutely want to see Sarri carry-out his vision and at the same time I believe he isn't the perfect fit for us. But we have to start the build somewhere.

Perfect scenario for us then. Rebuild with Jorginho, Higuain, Kante , Azpi, Rudiger, Kepa and the youngsters.

Look, you can spew any rubbish you want to - free speech and all that, but if you do, don't quote me.

And that's what the OP is saying really. Kante has made his name as a box to box midfielder in a 2-man midfield. There is no such position in Sarri's system. Some fools want him to replace Jorginho. And yet if they can open their eyes and count the number of over-weighted, under-w eighted and misplaced passes he makes, they can see for themselves exactly why Sarri won't consider him for that role. Teams ignore our right side of Kante and Azpi for a reason.

You sure are making strange inferences from my words. No I don't think he has the same defensive presence as Fernandinho and nowhere did I say that. And seeing as your first sentence makes no sense, the follow-up is nonsensical as well. Anyway, I think we can all agree Jorginho has been targeted specifically in recent months - as a way for opponents to stifle our play. And yet he still has a +90% pass rate. Which is strange for a player who, as you say, 'turns over possession easily when closed down'. And again I'm not comparing Jorginho to Fabregas. And it would be pointless anyway as they don't naturally play in the same position. You think Luiz is a more creative and versatile passer than Jorginho? Well that's painfully obvious so well done on taking that leap. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Unless you are saying Luiz should be playing the regista position which is ridiculous. Look, at the end of the day you'll 'see' whatever it is you want to see. Some people will see someone like Andres Iniesta for the absolute magician he was and some people will see an advanced midfielder who hardly scored or assisted at all...

A regista doesn't necessarily need pace or dribbling skills. And even being a lightweight he is still contributing defensively and is not far off Fernandinho statistically. What is he you ask? A regista, more than any other position on the field, is nothing without a functioning team. If the players around him are static, he can't pass. If they struggle to pass the ball or create space for him to operate, he can't receive the ball. I have watched every match that Jorginho has played, with an intense focus on him specifically because I'm fascinated by his position on the field. And I have almost never thought he's had bad game. Same with Rudiger. Azpi and Kante. Like the rest, his effect had been increasingly marginalised because of the performance of the team as a whole. You see simple passes over short distances. I see someone who thinks as quick as Fabregas when he receives the ball. I see someone who has covered more ground than literally every other player in the league, to get into good receiving positions and attempt to keep our play as fluid as possible. And I've seen someone who hasn't yet come to terms with the league and has been suffering a bit lately because of the added pressure. When/if we see the team functioning how Sarri wants, I think the average fan will begin to appreciate his skillset a bit more.