Shotgun883

Thats the issue i have with the club at the moment. There isnt the belief in the youth, there isnt the willingness to take a chance on the youth even if that means failing. You only have to look at Sturridge who we let go for less than £10 mil to see where we are going wrong. I guarantee Liverpool wouldnt take £20 mil for him right now. This is absolutely Chelsea's MO. Buy young players, loan them out, loan them out, dont play them if they are in the squad, lose them as they want football. Now im not saying we have produced superstars who have always gone on to better themselves, but we HAVE stifles their development at the crutial point in their careers. Lukaku is in the EXACT position Sturridge was after his loan to Bolton yet we didnt learn from our mistake.

Obviously though keeping Ba, Torres and Eto'o relegates Lukaku to 4th fiddle and out of the club. Hows that better? lets have an example; If you start Lukaku against Newcastle and he's having a mare the team are struggling for a focal point and missing drive, who would you rather see on the bench, Ba, Eto'o, Torres or Rooney . A player who you trust implicitly to change the game as he is proven at the highest level and in form or one who has only scored 1 league goal since Jan and has struggled for form for 3 years, one who has never proved himself at the highest level and a 32 year old who has never played in the PL and has spend the last 2 years counting roubles. Thats why having a reliable striker helps Lukaku because you KNOW you can rely on your first choice he can develop without being our "only" hope.

It was a joke. Hence the *duck* in the question. Someone on another thread said that anyone who mentioned "what if Benitez did that" should be banned. although im glad he's gone, im also not sure Benitez deserved the stick he got but thats for another thread.

Nah. Im saying Buying a proven striker instead of maintaining 3 strikers who have question marks over them in terms of ability hinders the progress of the youth. You can afford to take more of a risk with your backup strikers if your first choice is mustard. Its about a longer term strategy rather than chancing your luck with cheap journey men strikers (Ba) instead of backing our youth (Sturridge, Lukaku) Who is to say these players under OUR tutelage wouldnt get better quicker, yeah they aint gonna play every game for Chelsea at the moment but its because we arent trusting them initially, its a bit Chicken before the Egg situation. We cant play them becaause they havent proved themselves but they havent proved themselves because we havent played them. ATM we have 6 First team AM's all of them we have paid between £10 - 32 million well, wheres Piazon, Kakuta or Moses gonna play? By buying excessive amounts of 4* players filling the squad we stifle the progression of our youngsters. Buy buying a few key 5* players in the right positions we then pad the squad out with youth instead of expensive aquisitions. If we know we can rely on the first 11 (18 realistically) implicitly but we can involve the youth more naturally.

Benitez was tounge in cheek. lol. We absolutely hated on him for EVERY single decision he made. Now jose's in some wont question him for a second. the advantage of good relations i suppose.

Im not bashing Willian and Eto'o, absolutely not. I think Willian will be a fantastic signing, Eto'o is only a stop gap and I really think we got a good deal on the signing, if he has a good season I wouldnt be opposed to him extending (as long as it suits a strategy) The thread isnt about specific signings, although I have used examples, Rooney, Cavani, Willian. BUT its more looking at the long term strategy of the club, yet again instead of letting what we have develop, and what we have is already an extremely strong and deep squad with a good mix of youth and experienced leaders, we have spent vast money to buy success, hindering the progress of our youth. I would rather see us come 4th and see Moses, McEachran, Kakuta, Kalas, Ake, Chalobah, Lukaku etc, play a significant amount of games and develop together, progressing under Mourinho than spend £50 mil on a few short term signings who offer nothing in the long term.

Im not stuck on paying £50 mil on a striker. Its just the transfer policy, strategy, whatever you call it doesnt marry up as well thought out IMO. We refused to over pay for a striker, fine, understood, sign Eto'o or similar if thats who you think can add something to the squad. But to refuse to overspend on a player we need and to then spend £32 mil on a player we dont need, loaning out two <22 year old homegrown players both of whom have massive potential and experience at the PL level, (unlike the two signings) its foolish IMO. It looks to me like the only reason we Loaned Lukaku out is because we couldnt shift Ba, papers are saying we stopped the move to le'arse because they signed Ozil and Jose see's them as a threat. To cut the squad we then allowed Lukaku to move on in order to stop him sitting on our bench, we sacrificed having Lukaku in the squad because we had to keep Ba. Seriously, the strategy of buying young prospects and devolping our own youth really working there. A few more salient questions Is Willian really £32 mil better than Moses? Or did we sign him purely to stop Tottenham getting him? (or to help out Romans mate at Anzhi? lol) Is a 32 year old Eto'o (Unproven in the PL, after semi retirement in Russia for 2 years, although with a fearsome goalscoring record in the not too distant past. Who sacrificed playing for the triple winning team in a competetive league to earn untold WONGA playing for the Russians.) good business? Has the boards dillying at the beggining of the transfer window hampered the progression of the team in the long term? Why did moses have to go to the BinDippers? What if Rafa had done this (*ducks*)?

Lol.. Who?

Not convinced, without looking at the maths in their entirety but i do know paying £50 Mil for a striker for one year who we will have to replace anyway and a midfielder who is not better than what we have, who will also have no resale value at the end of his contract, does not make sense either. If that £100 mil for a "Rooney" helps in the development of Lukaku and Moses in addition to bringing balance to the squad, trophies galore and a hatful of goals, then yeah. Im gonna think that it would be a worthwhile commitment.

Not offering top price, offering the correct price. A price which truly makes Man Utd think about selling him. what can Man Utd do with £25 mil, buy another Anderson? Doesnt even cover Fellani, £40 mil is a sum they can look at. In this market Rooney IS worth £40-50 mil this is a simple truth. by only bidding £25 mil Chelsea were undervaluing him. This is the exact opposite statement you try to make with a marquee signing, especially one who is feeling undervalued at his current club. This is not about throwing money away, which i think the club HAVE done with Willian IMO, this is about assessing your team, choosing the right targets and pursuing them proactively. At what point did we NEED another Midfielder who is older, isnt as established or as succesful as our current batch? As has been stated in this thread earlier even if we had paid £53 mil for Cavani plus £300k/wk we wouldn't be significantly worse off financially but would be much better equipt on the field. The goal of the club IS to become self sufficient as much as possible but my argument is that a Marquee striker does that BETTER than Willian and Eto'o. Willian who has stifled Moses, Dilly dallying on a striker has meant we signed Eto'o which has meant we had to retain Ba and loaned Lukaku. IF the transfer of a World Class striker had been conducted earlier in the window, Ba would have been shifted as the club would have had more time to deal with the situation and Lukaku would have been retained. With a A+ standard striker as first choice and Torres second choice Lukaku hasnt got the weight oof the world on his shoulders and can be integrated gradually. Also bear in mind that both Moses and Lukaku are Homegrown players so would have INCREASED the Chelsea squad unlike Willian and Eto'o, Essien has been left out of the CL squad because of this.

I'm using Rooney as example but if Rooney had submitted a transfer request, would Utd really have held onto him? By us being wishy washy with Utd we gave to wrong impression to Rooney. IMO. If we'd have been aggressive right from the off he'd know we meant business. Done early enough Man Utd may have thought they had enough time to replace him. We didn't do that and we have to settle for Eto'o.

Offering £25 mil for one of the best strikers in the world. That's how. He is worth £40 mil by anyone's reckoning. Especially to us who, and lets be frank here have a horrible history when it comes to strikers. All Man Utd had to do to convince him to stay was say. We have one offer, and they are only prepared to pay a tuppence and a pack of juicy fruit. Chelsea should have IMMEDIATELY offered his actual value and prove to him he is absolutely our no 1 priority, THE player we intend on building a team around, which is precisely what Man Utd aren't offering. To go and spend More than our Rooney offer on a player we don't need and who hasn't got anywhere near the talent of him is f*cking around trying to sign him. We can either act like a big club, decisive determined with a real action plan or dilly dally round like those morons in red up the road who couldn't close a deal with a hooker in a brothel.

Of course they dont but what they (probably, maybe, god knows) do is pull out of signing Cavani and Falcao as they werent prepared to pay a few million extra, Bidded for Rooney at only £22 mil then £25 mil. Instead of going all out to sign the world class striker they NEEDED they bought a midfielder they didnt need and Eto'o who hasnt the longevity and has question marks over him. It doesnt make sense, financially, squad development wise. And to talk about Mourinho needing high energy players, they already added Moses, KDB and Shurrle as backup. They had 6 players for those 3 positions, plus Rooney if they'd not f*cked around. Plus Ramires who is maybe better suited up there than in the "pivot" (urgh) role.

Good comment. lol. Near sighted, how about marginalising a very good striking prospect by loaning him out at a crucial period in his development AND his contract. Keeping hold of Ba and signing Eto'o who isnt exactly a spring chicken. Yes it is a small investment for Eto'o but its not just the Eto'o transfer that we are figuring in, its the whole Willian, Eto'o transfer policy which makes no sense short torm or long term. Spending £32 mil on signing a 25 year old Brazillian who has achieved the sum total of FA, playing in the Russian Premier League (and not exactly being the bright light in that league) who plays in the same position as a few of our current squad i.e. 21 year old Brazil International with 21 Caps, a 22 Year old German international with 25 caps, A 22 Year old belgium player with 36 Caps and finally a World Cup winning, European Champ Winning, CL winning, 2 x fans player of the year winning 25 year old Spaniard. I will admit apart from the odd glimpse I have not seen him play and am prepared to support him, cheer him and enjoy the delights he's about to serve up for us but the transfer doesnt make sense im my head and the more i think about it the less it makes sense. The only thing I can think is that Anzhi Makhachkala's owner couldnt afford to keep running the club so asked his mate Roman to ease his financial burden, In turn Roman gave him £32 mil and took £400k/wk off his wage budget. Sorted.

This is absolutely the issue im having. Purely from a cost view point there is such small differences between the two courses of action it seems foolish to have chosen the option which hinders the club the most. This is not to say Eto'o and Willian are bad signings and wont do us proud, just that in my opinion signing Cavani/ A.N. Other, retaining Lukaku and Moses would see us better for the present and the future than Willian, Eto'o and Ba. Especially when you factor in moving Ba on, who earns double that that Lukaku earns. Plus the year lost in inhouse development time we could have had with Lukaku and Moses in the club. ADD the factor of trying to integrate Willain into the creative 3, possibly destabilising the current incumbents further (we are already adding KDB and Shurrle)

No MVg couldnt be in the B list, you have to be in the registered for the club for 2 years before you can be in the B squad. This isnt a problem for the PL but it is for the CL. Its says alot about JM's faith in him if he picked him over Essien.

You can tell im bored at work... Shurrle looks like an absolute diamond IMO. Offers a real threat, I was wondering at first but im ecstatic at the signing. MVG, solid youngster but need to see more of him.

Like i said money doesnt concern me. BUT we decided to sign a second tier striker and retain Ba and Torres, sign Willian AND loan out Lukaku. There is hardly a difference financially yet on the pitch we would be absolutely stronger even if we overpayed for a world class striker. Willian, Eto'o and Ba are not automatic first choice players. Good quality to add competition but not improving the first 11 massively. Rooney/Cavani WOULD improve the first 11. It would also enable us to keep Lukaku in the squad to develop HERE. This is because with Eto'o and Torres who have questionable records in the past few years we cannot afford an unknown quantity so Ba fits better, questionable total ability but experienced and a known quantity. With a world beater in pole position we are able to take more risk further down the pecking order. If the finances are what does concern you then lets look at the two options My preferred Buy/Retain £40 mil + 300k/wk on Rooney £40k/wk on Lukaku Sell £7 million (ball park) + 80k/wk for Ba or what we actually did Buy/Retain £32 mil +40k/wk on Willain (Google says its €50k/wk - seems low but hey, google is NEVER wrong) £0 + £140k/wk for Eto'o 80k/wk for Ba So for the virtually the same financial outlay on transfer costs and a saving of £80k/wk we; -Dont strengthen the first team measureably. -Loan out a promising youngster who could improve Chelsea in the long term -Have Ba's value depreciate, age and contract length -Tell someone who just missed a penalty in a European Cup final to lose us the game "he's not good enough yet", great moral support there. -Increase competition in our strongest position, potentially without increasing overall ability in the strongest 11, Reducing game time for Mata/Hazard/Oscar/KDB/Shurrle, All of whom in themselves are great prospects but also proven in top quality leagues, Spending £32 mil on an unknown quantity in the PL who hasnt exactly set the world alight in the Russian PL. BTW im really excited for this season I cant wait for it to properly get underway, damn sh*tty internationals. i can really see us pulling some weeds up this year.

Very little differrence in wages, especially at this level Lukaku (38k/wk) + Rooney/Cavani/Falcao (300k/wk) = 340k/wk Eto'o (140k/wk) + Ba/Torres (80k/wk)/(175k/wk) + Willian. (40k/wk) = 260k/wk or 355k/wk We are not arguing the financing of the deals. (I for one couldnt give a monkeys whether we pay £2 or £220 Mil on a player) Truly there is very little difference in the two figures. the problem Im having is the choice of the board to wimp out on spending big for a top quality striker who could compliment lukaku and torres and move for a midfielder and Eto'o and sending a huge prospect out on loan for a second season. When realistically they have spent the same money, got less bang for their buck and not adressed the long term needs of the football club. In my opinion of course, im all set for JM to prove me completely wrong, Willian to make oscar, Hazad look like amateurs, Lukaku to score 30 goals and bossing every game he's involved in and Eto'o to quietly go about his business, providing 25 match winning goals and a bag full of assists.

Poppycock. How on earth is he supposed to adapt to playing CFC's way when we loan him to WBA and Everton. Signing a 32 year old has been and a 29 year old has never been. Ba was a neccesary signing in Jan, as we HAD no one as we HAD to sell Sturridge as he wasnt trusted apparently, Ba has a decent 2 seasons in the PL and was cheap. Eto'o is a solid signing, he could go on to score a decent number of goals, could being the operative word, not guaranteed to adapt and even if he does has he still got the desire to excel, my position is anyone who moves to the Russian Premier league at 28/29 for 300k a week wants something other than top quality opposition to improve himself. Even if he does score 25 goals, what does it gain us in the long term? A 33 year old who is out of contract. Even if Lukaku has a poor season is he going to contribute less than Danny Welbeck? or Torres? I think you know the answer to that one. Yes he is raw but he will never become Chelsea quality unless Chelsea invest game time in him, although there is mileage loaning him out the the right club, WBA with Steve Clake was perfect, not over used, gently broken into the club, he grew massively. Im not convinced another loan to a mid table club will benefit him, he's already been there and excelled at that level what more can he learn there that he could better at Chelsea. I for one and i dont think im alone on this would prefer to see a short transitional period (not 8 years gooners) where we get to grips with changing from a buying to a youth development club where we arent winning the PL. If by playing Lukaku we come 3rd/4th im happy as long as we see a tangible development in the club towards a forward looking settled side who dont need to buy £50 mil world beaters each year. Courtois is a really tough one. I would LOVE to see him as a Chelsea player as he looks amazing but you cant just throw Petr Cech on the scrap heap at only 31 (32?) he has another 5 years of top level GK'ing in him. I would like to see a season of them both in the same squad fighting over the no1 jersey but realistically you cant see either foresaking their carrer for the potential of being second choice. I think next year a decision should be made, sell Cech or sell Courtois, both have decent resale value so we certainly wont be out of pocket but we cant realistically keep them both IMO.

The problem the OP raised was that we wouldn't spend the extra few million on Cavani/Falcao and compete with monaco/psg. players who we really could have done with but were willing to spend £32 mil on Willian who plays in our strongest position. A small bid of £25 mil for Rooney was never going to work, he's worth £35 mil by anyone's reckoning. I'm almost certain Man Utd DID want rid of Rooney at the beginning but a miserly £25 mil offer from Chelsea and no competition for his signature stymied their summer spending powers so it was better to keep Rooney as they couldn't strengthen than to boost Chelsea. If they had been able to get alcantara or fabregas I'm sure a decent bid would have been accepted.

But its £7 Mil that wouldnt have been needed to be spent if we could have signed Rooney instead of Willian. Eto'o becomes a mute point. Also i would add to that that Rooney and Torres is a decent enough 1st and 2nd choice, you wouldn't NEED and experienced 3rd choice so Lukaku would have been retained and Ba would have been allowed to leave. As it stands Torres, Eto'o and Ba have massive question marks over them. Form (Torres), Age/semi retirement last 2 years (Eto'o), ability (Ba). Rooney would be a know quantity who has performed, is fit and would fit us perfectly with only Torres and Lukaku as questionable understudies, form, experience.

Thats my Issue with the movement. I would prefer giving Lukaku game time, support him when he made mistakes and help him integrate into our team. For the detriment of our league position is needs must as I believe he will go right to the top under the right tutelage, and be a bigger asset for us in the long run than a loan which has done so much for Kakuta, Stoch, Bruma, PVA, McEachran, to name only 5 players who have been treat like this.

Tight is a poor choice of words but I can see the point that we were reluctant to spend an extra £10-15 Mil on Rooney/Cavani/Falcao when they would have been the perfect fit for the club. Potentially push us from very good to absolutely amazing. Yet were willing to waste £7 Mil on Eto'o, waste is a bad choice of words but he isnt going to be a world beater for us for the next 4-5 years, Rooney for instance absolutely would be that,

Although I will accept that I trust JM, if he thinks Torres, Ba and Eto'o are good enough then who am I to judge he HAD the finances and used them elsewhere. If FSW had done the same.........