RedRobMol

I had obviously realised it was saturday. I should have known really as it is at anfield, and all games at anfield MUST be a 12.45 kick off, its a new Fifa directive. Tea Bar Boy, if the weather is sh*t down in your part of the world, can you have a potter around my garden as my lazy girlfriend hasnt done the weeding that she promised she would.

I presume you are pretty confident coming up to our place, and i think with good reason, but do you think you'll win? I dont have a good feeling about it, but i dont have a bad one either, so i really dont know. I think it will all depend on whether Sami plays or Aggers plays. I reckon if we start with Carra and Agger we will not lose. Whether we'll win, i'm not sure, but i'm confident that with Carra and Agger we'll keep a clean sheet.

So creating goals for the team and scoring goals for the team shouldn't be taken in to account when determining whether Frank is selfish or not? : I amnot sying that in its entirety however you have to admit that using assists is a bit irrelevant when the player takes the corners and indirect free kicks - he has no option but to 'pass' to someone else! I admit no such thing!! There is no law that says every corner or indirect free kick must lead to a goal. I would interpret it as meaning that he takes good corners and freekicks. Assist = playing a significant part in the scoring of a goal (see cross for SWP's goal on Saturday) Pass = kicking the ball to another player in your team Two quite different things Now if he had been taking all of the corners and freekicks and not getting any assists then that would be a problem. Really, I can't think that I have ever thought about Frank being selfish. He has always struck me as a team player. why did crespo fail so miserably with you guys and was such a success playing with Seedorf, Pirlo and Kaka? Same question for Shevchenko? There is no greedier midfield possible than Joe Cole, Lampard and Robben, not one of them will pass if there is a chance they can get a shot off. I'm not saying that they dont create chances for others, as obviously they will at times, but if they can get a shot in, even if someone is better placed, or the angle silly, they will shoot, they always f**king do. Its the reason it pisses me off whenever you beat us, as with that midfield we shouldnt allow enough chances for it to happen. Greedy, greedy bar steward, is how the outside world see Fw**k, well maybe the Outside World minus Ingurland loving knobheads who know no better.

in other news, The surface of the sun is quite warm, great white sharks are a bit nasty, and my sh*te smells a bit. Even Fat Fw**k is too single minded, 'At times'. The. Greediest. Central. Midfield. Player. In. World. Football.

strange you think that, as I, and a lot of other reds, see it the opposite way round. You can tell that Hansen has a genuine affection for us and is always truly gutted when we lose, but he was so good, and in such good teams that he will always criticise what needs to be criticised, however he doesnt seem to wallow in it, whereas Lawrensen is an arse.

just thought i should perhaps show my face. No excuses about dominating, or anything like that. Did think we should have had a pen (maybe even two on a good day) but the ref got it very wrong. As for the defending, f**k knows what happened. I know that the defence look totally different nowadays when Reina isnt behind them, and as for Carragher (your spell check must not work by the way) for henry's goal, for some reason he always f**ks up against Henry, its a mental thing i reckon, still think he's as good as Terry though.

Will you? tough one, but at the moment i dont think we will. By the way, there are far too many 'we can' answers on here. What i was trying to find out is how confident you lot still are. For the record, i think you will.

I'm not asking if you can because you obviously have the quality in your squad and United will almost certianly have to slip up at some point, but what are your thoughts now? WILL you win the league this year?

Thanks for the considered response Bluenut, it is one of far too few. I take issue with quite a bit of what you say, but it is obvious we will have polarised viewpoints of many of it. What you say about Hillsborough rings mostly true, although i think it is harsh to blame any liverpool fans for the tragedy personally, especially with such circumspect evidence. The other issues i can see where you come from. Although what i said about Shields i think is a fair viewpoint. He was on holiday with mates, some of which were Blues (everton) and just so happened to have gone on the way back from the CL final. I dont consider him doing that as a liverpool fan, but as a drunken brittish w**ker (if he was responsible of course). The events at old trafford i have to take with a pinch of salt. The atmosphere between the TWO sets of fans has become hightened and the animosity increased over the last 5 years. I dont know what has caused this and there is undoubtedly a factor of knobhead support on both sides. It is not a valid excuse and it is immature, but i know a lot of bad feeling toward them eminates from the press accounts of anything between the two sides. The last few times we have played at OT there have been banners draped from the motorway bridges on the M62 celebrating the tragedies above. That has NEVER been mentioned in the press. Any time we beat them mud is slung like the lies printed about Steve Finnan shouting racist slurs at Patrice Evra last season. Again not excuses but i know that they contribute to the animosity. Also with regard to the Alan Smith ambulance thing, that was dispicable, but it was something like 70 minutes into the game, a game against our deadliest rivals. Match going reds were at the match, most other reds were in the boozer, these w**kers weren't, but obviously once reported in the papers these twats are representative of all of our fans. I have been a season ticket holder for 3 years, a regular match goer for 5-6 before that, and a sporadic match goer for 4-5 years prior to that, and i have only once ever seen any trouble, which was when we played PSG in 1996. We will have unsavoury elements of our support, but who doesnt, please dont even try to tell me you lot are angels. As for the ban hitting us hardest, that is true to some degree, but the Premier League and Sky generation has hit us harder, as when it kicked off and football and especially money in football, were reinvented, we had a sh*t manager who sold our decent players, bought sh*t replacements and we were left out in the cold and have never quite caught up. one last thing, as i missed the milwall reference when i first read the post. I wont support those people as they obviously wanted to cause trouble but it was a minority of a relatively small travelling support. Milwall were fined because that is the process, but again we did accept responsibilty for the incedent as a club and publically denounced their actions as fans.

that post is fair, all that it would take is for attitudes regarding hillsborough to alter. If the post had read "standing areas will never happen because of hillsborough" rather than because of scousers, then this argument would not have ensued.

I accept that Liam, and i have apologised a few times in this thread alone for being antagonistic, and i mean no offence to any of you other than the man that those comments were aimed at. I know i am on your turf here, and i also know that i would probably not say those things to the fells face (as i am a coward) but his attitude angers me. I could use less colourful language but my feelings towards him would remain the same so it would be fruitless.

you really are a c**t arent you? I'm not gonna bother anymore, you have shown yourself up as an ignorant muppet who cannot distinguish between proven fact and newspaper lies. Is it because there werent any tits on page three of the Taylor report? I hope it never happens, but one day if you or your family get caught up in such a tragedy, I really hope that people beleive it was your fault.

i despair, i really do. You must be so proud to have such an unchangable opinion. So, what you are saying is that fans recollections of what happened who were there are wrong, an independant enquiry of what happened was wrong, but you, who read a paper is right? For christs sake lad, read that out loud and see if you sound like a prick. I couldnt care less about your youth set up to be honest, i just dont think you will get much use out of it. just my opinion and we shall see what happens. Oh, and as for behaviour today, returning from istanbul, i presume you mean Michael Shields? If you do, that is ONE lad out of 30odd thousdand, who was not 'on his way back from istanbul' he was on holiday in bulgaria. Is he the first Englishman to get in trouble fighting on holiday abroad? If he is guilty, which i am happy to beleive he is then he wasnt doing it in the name of LFC, he was doing it as a drunken englishman abroad, which should be condemened, but should WE? Apart from that, tell me the last time we have CAUSED trouble abroad? Our fans have been attacked in Rome and Turin, but we were not the agressors.

All I can say is thanks. I am fighting a losing battle but at least there are shining lights like yourself here. I am fully aware that this is boring the arse of a lot of your members, but it is a subject which means a lot to me (even if only by association) and it gets me quite angry. thanks again.

what does that mean? Since i have been visiting this forum the majority of the people on here have been pretty sound, but that doesnt even make sense!

i'm starting to get bored of typing this, i might have to save it so i can copy and past next time you ignore it. Standing was prohibited because of Hillsborough, not Heysel. Liverpool fans were not to blame for Hillsborough, it has been stated by an independant enquiry. You are either on a quite distastful wind up, or you are an idiot. I will let you decide.

Did Terry come through the ranks of this new academy whilst Roman was ploughing cash into the team, or did he come through while you were pretty sh*t? They may have the best football education, but they wont get any games so will still end up at sc**thorpe or Southend like the cast offs do now, and they wont be playing or learning from any of the 'best players in the world' as i doubt your first team will be down at the academy all that much. Thats bullsh*t. An independant enquiry blamed the police, not me, an INDEPENDANT ENQUIRY. please educate yourself, i have given you the opportunity.

I understand the good things he is doing, but surely you can understand the vilification when some of Englands best prospects are bought for inflated prices and left to rot on the bench. Parker ?10m, SWP ?23m, that is ludicrous. Then if the signings dont work out they are just sold on for peanuts proving that money is no object, it is not the way things should run in my opinion. As for building a great youth academy, whats the point when they will not be able to break into the team unless they are Rooney class?

Your post there is the sums up why i am posting this much on this post. You are ignorant of what happened, why and what the consequences are. Heysel happened in May 1985, it was a tragedy of which we, Liverpool FC, are partly and mainly to blame. This is totally independent of the tragedy at Hillsborough and should not be spoken about in the same breath. All seater stadiums in this country came about due to the Lord Justice Taylor report, the enquiry into why the Hillsborough tragedy was ever allowed to happen, in 1989, in which he puts the blame at the door of the South Yorkshire police and the entire crowd management, not at any level the supporters of Liverpool FC. Please read this sentence as many times as is necessary until it has sunk in. Please. I have not spoken about how 'recently' fans have travelled without tickets, i was speaking of prior to Hillsborough, as in the year before at the same place, at the same time, for the semi final against Forest the year earlier. I have said before that i have never hear anyone suggest that you were to blame for Heysel. I beleive you that it has been said, but i cant take responsibility for apologising for them. I wasnt there, but what i know is that we were to blame, along with many other factors. As for being wrong, i dont understand what the question of right ot wrong is? All i am saying is that all seater stadiums are not the fault of LFC, its fans or anything else attached to our club.

A couple of things here, firstly the take over. I have real worries as to how it will turn out, but i do not for one second think we will be allowed to splash the cash as Roman has allowed you to, mainly because it is not a wealthy man on his own coming in, it is a business and i beleive it will be run as such (which probably means sh*tting on us fans, but we'll wait and see). To be honest, if they gives us the money we need for the stadium and then Rafa gets similar backing to what he has had under Moores then i will be happy. I would like us to have money, of course i would, and i would be a hypocrite for it, but i would not like us to waste money in the way that you have. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out. As for being frustrated at being out of the title race, well, frustrated is just the tip of the iceberg. I have never gone into a season with such genuine beleif that we can win the league. All i can hope for now is that we pick up our form and can set down a challenge next year. Again we'll have to wait and see.

an excellent post Loz, and i thank you for it. This final point is a fair one and one with which i cannot disagree. It has been too little too late, but i think a large factor in this was a refusal from the authorities to put in place a review of what happened and conduct a formal report on the tragedy. I beleive that the club would have been willing to co-operate with this report and the way in which the club would have acted, in my opinion, would have then been far more credible and blame would have been accepted. The way i see it is that the club refused to accept the total blame of which was apportioned to us/them, and therefore would accept none of the responsibility. It is not a good view point to take, but i do beleive that this is what happened. Regarding the chairmans portrayal of your fans being to blame, i have to admit to not being aware of this and therefore i cannot comment.

I just wanted to apologise for my antagonistic tone throughout this thread, as I am aware that I am a 'foreigner' on this site and am essentially your guest, however as I am sure you can understand the topics i have dicussed are emotive ones for most (if unfortunately not all) Liverpool fans. I am angered by the refusal to change the set in stone opinions and do truly hope that at least someone may have a change of attitude due to my ranting. so, to sum up, please accept my apologies for my apparent angst on these matters.

Scott, where do you get this info from? that is a genuine question, because this is the ignorance of which i spoke earlier. To beleive something that is bullsh*t is not on its own a bad thing, unless you refuse to educate yourself about it when someone tells you you are wrong. I am now telling you. The previous year we had played a semi against forest at Hillsborough and thousands of fans turned up without tickets, there were no lives lost. Around that time we were the best team in the country and whenever we had a high profile game like a semi final thousands of reds travelled on the off chance of getting a ticket or getting in. That comes with success. The previous year the police managed and although there were concerns, in 89 when they knew what to expect they had not prepared in any way for it. There were road works on the way to Sheffield causing major tailbacks which resulted in thousands of fans getting to the game late (not rolling out of the pub as that lovable red topped rag would have you beleive) and the police should have ordered the kick off to be delayed, but they when one constable did, his request was denied. Then they made a catastrophic error in opening the gates. Once inside, there were 2 sides of the leppings lane end which were sparsly populated but because of the terrible crowd management the majority of fans pushed into the central pens so that they could see the game as they were already late (understandable instinct) f**k it, it is clear that you will continue to beleive what you want to beleive. I suggest that you visit http://www.constrast.org/hillsborough which has much more information than i can provide and if only one of you reading this visits it and has a change of opinion then it is a good thing in my view. Back to Heysel, unfortunately, and i can only reitterate that which i have posted before. I dont know anyone who beleives it wasnt the fault of liverpool fans, however it was a major f**k up in many other areas which resulted in the deaths of those fans. I dont wish to make excuses so please do not think that i am, but Heysel was never fit to hold the game, and our club made this comment to Uefa a long time prior to the match, it was delapidated. The absense of emergency services prevented the chance of resucitation of the injured but above all else hooligans from liverpool football club caused the problems. As for people in Sheffield hating us, i dont know, but i would be confused if they did, it was the people of liverpool who died, not the people of sheffield. I know there are many in Turin who do and who will, but our club is constantly attemptin to bridge those gaps and improve our name in that city. I am sure you are aware that English fans have never been particularly welcome in that country, just ask the liverpool fans stabbed and slashed the year before in Rome, or the West Ham fans assaulted this year in Sicily.

Political correctnes is one thing, and not caring if you offend people within reason is totally understandable when you have your views on football matters, but when you are talking about peoples lives, not just the 96 who lost their lives, but the hundreds or thousands affected by that loss then you are crossing a line in my opinion. Is "after all, its a chelsea forum" an excuse to be a prick? I know chelsea fans have (or used to before the sky generation) a stigma attached to them, but is it a blanket cover for anything goes bullsh*t?

the first bit i have quoted is arrogant in the extreme. the second, i shall answer as i have before. I am from Birmingham, living in Leeds, with scouse family. Do i have your permission to support my club now? please?