venom2011

Oh ignorance is bliss. 'Who cares about stats?' Most managers and millions of football fans around the world. The problem with listening to people speak about what they see with their eyes is that most people are f*cking stupid. So if you're debating a point it's more often than not better to use 'facts'. 'If you play chess with a pigeon no matter how well you play, it's just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like it won anyway'

Well said sir. And the next coach will pick the same players they're complaining about now because they are they best available to achieve the objectives. These fans want him sacked for not (yet) getting into the champions League AND for not playing the youth which makes no sense.

It quite literally is. Just not on the ones I mentioned. Yes we play with no end product, which just a part of playing attacking football. Attacking football is more than just goals and assists. Those are the ultimate realisations of the philosophy. To each is own, but I found the football under Conte to be far more tedious. And yet I never wanted to him leave either. Last season we played slow defensive football with no end product, the difference being that this year we have more possession (and some other differences which people remain ignorant about), so some people perceive that to be more dull.

Disagree. Not being able to achieve your objective is a failure. You set your own parameters in which to determine your failures. No one else can do that. Yes, probably. We don't know for sure. But having a defensive manager/approach would have guaranteed that before the season began. We know what kind of football he wants to play and we know he cares more about being happy than pushing himself to his limits. I refer you to my previous post about the perceived lack of chances created. And yet I agree we should be creating more. I just don't expect the midfield we currently have to do that. Agreed. But you need time. More than most if you're not playing pragmatic football. I'm not saying we should have our own Arsene Wenger, but we should allow any manager we've brought in the time and scope to do his job. Say we hired Mourinho after Conte, someone to get results with pragmatic football, then firstly the transition is easier and secondly he should be judged differently. But we hired Sarri, who never had a preseason. We wanted an attacking philosophy. We knew the transition would be tough. We knew we never had enough goals and creativity in the team. We then essentially gave him one player and took away the backup for that player in the next window without a replacement. And I use the words 'we knew' lightly, as many fans don't consider these particulars. Barring a disastrous bottom-half finish we should absolutely see the project through the cycle. But as I've said - the short-termism from our board has now filtered down to the fanbase.

Well we've created more chances than most, created more big chances than most, taken more shots inside the area than most, more through balls than anyone and hit the woodwork the most. I don't know what more you need to see than that. If the league was calculated on statistical index we'd probably be second. What we are sorely missing are the players to make all of these stats mean something. Against Everton Jorginho played a delightful chip to put Higuain clean through.....it came to nothing and Jorginho will still be blamed for having no assists.

Failure depends on your objectives - game-by-game, short-term, and long-term. It is not a failure for Huddersfield to lose to us. I don't consider it failure to lose to the best team in Europe on a lottery when we've been the better team. I was immensely proud of that performance and it showed me that even with some massive cracks in the foundation we've still got something to build upon. I find it very strange that you're using him adjusting his style to beat the best in Europe as a negative against the way he manages the team. He has adjusted his style more the "one time" by the way. And in any case one result does not mean the quality of the team is fine. We won by scoring two goals, goals that we barely have in this team so why would anyone expect us to continue scoring? As I've said before, I agree that if we had a more defensive manager then we may have had a few better scorelines over the season, but ultimately we would have achieved nothing for our long term goals. And Hazard would without a doubt leave. No counter-attacking team would ever be successful without goals. We would have just seen last season's Conte again. A top 4 team in this league needs to score on average, 65-70 goals in a season. Even in a season where Hazard and Pedro are scoring well we just don't have the goals to compete. I'll adapt that quote for you to be more relevant: If you have a philosophy and are not given the time and scope to implement it, what's the point?

I think you are confused on at least two counts. Firstly I said outperformed, not beat. And with his job on the line, so that wasn't the game. Secondly, I challenge you to find a quote where Sarri says the players asked him to play deeper before the 2-0 win against City. You then make further nonsensical suppositions but it's a waste of time speaking about those.

Congrats. You've broken down the beautiful game into statistically calculated chances... and goals. Agreed, each to their own. Can't have it both ways. Fans want the board to sack managers almost as quick as the media do and still demand targets to be met. Managers won't play youth. And so it goes, on and on. That should be happening right now, not next season. We don't have the squad to challenge, we have hugely talented youngsters. The perfect scenario for me - Finish the season, let the deadwood go (Zappacosta, one of the LBs, one of Willian and Pedro, Giroud). Hire a competent Director of Football. Club decides on a broader philosophy, if they haven't already. Give Sarri a window (if we get one). Try our best to keep CHO. Bring back Mount, James, Salter/Zouma, Tammy. And lastly, stay the path until there is genuinely a massive problem down the line. It's the only way to ensure that things work synergistically.

Wow. Outperformed City with an inferior squad with his job supposedly on the line. It's nice that you can guarantee it but that means nothing. Of course the target is the CL. But he was brought here not because he's a proven winner, but to change the style of football. Which objective is more important to the club right now? Maybe you can guarantee some information regarding that. No. Because he said this: https://www.balls.ie/football/pep-guardiola-chelsea-job-406293 The board have a short term mentality. And that has now filtered down to the fan-base. I have watched almost every min of football that this club has played for more than a decade. I consider myself a student of the game with greater interest towards the tactical side of things. Scoring goals is a product of both the team style and player quality. We do not have goals in the team, therefore we cannot be expected to consistently score goals. Is that too difficult a concept to grasp? If we can't consistently score goals then I cannot use goals as a benchmark for how well this team has played in match (or a half). The first 45 against Everton was perfect. The movement of the players off the ball, the quality of possession, the hunger to win the ball back. It gave me everything I wanted to see besides a goal. And like I've said, my expectations are tempered in that regard.

I am not debating the difference in their trophy hauls, that should be obvious. Pep is successful everywhere he has been, agreed. And each one of his last 3 clubs had a strong core of players on which to build his philosophy before he arrived and he was given the time to alter the team, he wouldn't have had that here. There is a reason why he said he wouldn't have taken this job. You think Pep would have stuck with the back 5? Wouldn't have wanted Jorginho? Yes it is all speculative at best (and yet strangely you believe Sarri wanted Kova) but it's ridiculous to think he would have come into his first season here with a midfield of Kante, Kovacic, Barkley, RLC and maybe Jorginho ; with zero regular goal scorers bar Hazard ; and would have walked into the top 4. I'm not saying that Sarri hasn't made mistakes - he has, he's not very experienced in top flight football. I see the mistakes and I expected them because I understand the what the entire process was about. But I think he has done OK. Not great, not poorly - certainly enough to see out the season and maybe be allowed a window to adjust the team. We have such fundamental issues that need to be sorted at this club and I'm honestly tired of the circus. We need one constant. The player base will change soon, the structure of the club needs to change soon, and at the very least I want a manager to stay around for a period of time that allows the club a platform to move forward systematically.

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Double post

Do you genuinely think we played better or it just because we outscored a different Everton, with a different team that you think we played better? I stand by what I said. We were as good as we could have been in the first half against Everton and I found it hugely enjoyable.

No, unfortunately that is not all he's had to do. If it was just a matter of sneaking into the top 4 he might have been more pragmatic , or maybe wouldn't have taken the job. He has had to transform the style of the club AND meet those targets. And that is a super difficult task even with huge backing. We are 4 points from third, how is winning the EL the only realistic chance we have left? Again, you speak of incompetence as if someone else would have fared better. Please tell me who and why. That first half against Everton was a joy for me to watch. It was better than ANYTHING we have played under Conte. And at the same time I understand that we don't have the goalscorers to fully realise this system, so my expectations are always tempered. Personally, I could give two sh*ts about sneaking into the top 4, firing yet another manager, seeing the club unwilling to properly back the next guy, having an underwhelming next season with dog sh*t football - rinse and repeat. I have enjoyed parts of this transformation, I want to see the system realised as much as possible, and as a fan I'm willing to accept the blips along the way.

Apologies, I had no idea Pep has won everything, everywhere in every season.... So the notion that this squad without a proper goalscorer, creaky defence, and an unbalanced midfield would not be successful under Pep confuses you? My word, do you think the man is some sort of magician? He couldn't even do anything when he arrived and he had 2 of the 3 points above. He had the best midfield in the league and the best goalscorer.

I've said before that you can liken Jose and Conte to tailors ; Pep and Sarri to fashionistas. Sarri was brought here to implement his philosophy, whether that takes precedence over short term goals - only he and the board will know. Yes a manager is here to figure out how to get the best out his players but that will always be within the scope of how he wants the team to play. You say he has to find players who can meet his expectations as if the ones on the bench are actually better than the XI he selects. His selection and subs were spot on against Everton, we had as good a first half as we could hope to have and yet...... So I ask you this - Would Conte's first season surprise work with this squad? No, not enough goals and the squad is less experienced. Would Pep be more successful than Sarri with this squad? No, again not enough goals, ill-suited fullbacks and unbalanced midfield. There are a few reasons why I don't want Sarri to be sacked but chief among them is that I don't think any other manager would fare much better with this squad. Barring an absolutely disastrous run, I want to see him given at least two seasons with backing from the board.

He was awful all game? Please elaborate on this. I'm genuinely interested seeing as how quite a few people hold this same opinion.

2 reasons: 1: There's just no real time for actual coaching now. It's mostly match prep, fitness and recovery. 2. We don't have the players to address it. At any time we have max 3 attacking threats on the field. Our midfield is generally blunt It's only at the end of today's game that we saw something different. I think Sarri will consider 4-2-3-1 a bit more going forward, in matches where we can expect to massively dominate possession like we did today.

I know that is a popular narrative among some fans but let's be real. Yes CHO is a talent, but there's not a manager in the world who would start him ahead of Willian or Pedro in a big game. And right now that's just about every game. CHO is hardly playing, so how can he be playing better than others? And ideally you want to introduce youth players when you are playing well. Not when the team are under-performing.

He is very talented for sure and I 100% agree with you that he should be getting more minutes but I don't have any problems with his current situation. Sarri is currently using CHO in situations where there're no repercussions for the team or for the player if he fails. The first part is important because the manager himself is still under immense pressure. If he started CHO instead of Pedro or Willian, there's a bigger chance of conceding. And right now this topsy-turvy team with fragile egos needs stability and cushioning more than anything. This is the unfortunate side effect of the short-termism we see from both the club and fans - the manager must then ultimately prioritise the short-term goals no matter what the actual objectives are. It's also easy to say that when things have settled and we have some sort of stability with regards to performances that we can expect to see him more often. Look at Foden at City - Same age, very talented, in a more settled team that are much further along in its development cycle; and yet he has about half the number of minutes as CHO.

I don't think so, simply the team as a whole is performing better (and Fulham affording him the space he had at the start of the season). As I've said before: his position, more than any other outfield position, needs the players around him to be functioning well, in order to be effective. His performances have been very consistent for most of the season. Should have had at least 5 or 6 for the season....

Agreed. Though RLC is 23 and Kovacic only 24. Both of them still have quite a bit of growing to do. It's also worthwhile remembering that he was an attacking midfielder before Madrid changed him. He reminds me a bit of Mousa Dembele - what he has in his locker he does exceptionally well but he needs to add more to his game to stake a proper claim.

First time you've seen a much bigger player overpower someone? And no it never happened frequently - he was dispossessed twice in the match. Dallied on the ball once or twice from memory. He generally played it quick and decisively. Gave it away a couple times. A 5 yard pass is good if you're under pressure, surrounded as he often is, and recycles it almost immediately. Have you seen Kante try to control and pass under pressure? Yep. Even the great Iniesta averaged about 2 assists per season in his last 3 or 4 seasons at Barca. The assist stat is borderline meaningless in isolation.

For sure, but that shouldn't always be the case. There can be blatantly ridiculous interpretations which should be put to rest (via discussions, as is the purpose of a forum). A reasonable assumption as you addressed fatigue, possible substitution, a difficult period for the player and hope for the return of some confidence. All this despite him having a good game and not once mentioning any aspect of that. But my apologies if that wasn't your intention. Most of the squad looked fatigued so it never stood out for me. Hazard though seemed shot after 25 mins.

The players asked him during the match, if they could have a lower block due to fatigue. This was most likely at half-time. We were very good for the first 25 mins so I don't see why not, but personally I think it should be a 'horses for courses' scenario. We just don't have the midfield to hurt teams consistently.