Who else should we get rid of?

[Chippy]

The last few days reading the posts on here got me wondering if anybody is safe,

I have read the obvious Get rid of Grant posts but seen quite a few more including

Get rid of Drogba

Get rid of Lampard

Get rid of SWP

Get rid of Kalou

Get rid of Malouda

Get rid of Shevchenko

Get rid of Pizarro

Get rid of Mikel

Get rid of Ben Haim

Get rid of Sidwell

not long ago there were the same comments about Ballack,

with some disgruntled comments about Belletti and Paulo

People are happy with Steve Clarke but does he stay if a new man comes in?

some have even called for Cate to be manager....would he stay if a new man came in?

I must be easy pleased as there are only two or three players I would let go from that list and maybe another one if we found a proper replacement,

and none of the management team as yet,

It seems to me that with a more than a whole teams worth of players not deemed good enough or Chelsea quality the manager is doing a great Job

[blizeH]

I don't think there's a single player that I would say we should definitely get rid of, Malouda is the closest thing we have to an irredeemable player, with Pizarro unfortunately not being far behind (but both still have potential).

There are also plenty of players areugably not 'Chelsea quality' or are inconsistent, in this I'd include Ferreira, Belletti, Ben Haim, SWP, Sheva, Sidwell, Kalou and maybe a couple of others too. Yes these players can have brilliant games, and some are great for backup and as a result I wouldn't want to get rid of them unless the players themselves wanted to leave.

[Guest Brian M]

The ones I would forcibly move on in the summer are:

Malouda

Shevchenko

Pizarro

Ben Haim

Sidwell

Plus I expect Drogba and Lamps to ask for a move (though I'd rather they stayed). So, whoever the new manager is, he'll be splashing a bit of cash for around 7 new players. And will really get a chance to reshape the team into his image rather than JM's. All up we'd need:

3 new strikers (maybe that 18 year old Argie 'new Crespo' could be one of them)

1 new winger (but first the new manager should have a look at Sinclair before buying someone)

1 new central defender

1 new midfielder (ideally a playmaking creative midfielder rather than a like for like with Sidwell)

[BlueBeard]

The ones I would forcibly move on in the summer are:

Malouda

Shevchenko

Pizarro

Ben Haim

Sidwell

Plus I expect Drogba and Lamps to ask for a move (though I'd rather they stayed). So, whoever the new manager is, he'll be splashing a bit of cash with 7 new players. And will really get a chance to reshape the team into his image rather than JMs. All up we'd need:

3 new strikers

1 new winger (but first the new manager should have a look at Sinclair before buying someone)

1 new central defender

1 new midfielder (ideally a playmaking creative midfielder rather than a like for like with Sidwell)

I'd pretty much go along with all of that, though I'd add Ferreira to the 'must go' list.

Sad to agree about Sheva - I had such high hopes for him, but he now seems to injured more often than not, and I doubt he'll get much of a chance in the side with Drogba and Anelka both fit. Especially as we play that so boring 4-5-1 (masquerading as a 4-3-3), meaning only one striker gets a game, unless of course it's a Wembley Cup Final against the scum of N17, in which case we'll play with two strikers, but one of them will be played totally out of position.

I also expect Drogba & Lampard to leave in the summer, and to be honest I won't be sorry to see either of them go. Lamps hasn't been anywhere near his old form for a long time now, and I'm sick to the back teeth with Drogba's antics - he's an embarrassment to Chelsea.

As for new signings, that's going to depend entirely on who the new manager is (please, God, there must be a new manager!!!! ). I just hope it's someone who recognises the benefits of blooding decent youngsters sooner rather than later (or never), something that neither Mourinho or Grant had the balls to try.

[dreadis]

To "get rid off" is a bit harsh to say, but I think CFC should go through intense changes over the summer.

First thing first: Grant - With him we can only be the 5th , or even 6th team in the lague, and not because of him but because of the quality of individual skills of some players! He is useless as a manager!

Regarding the players: Sid, Pizarro and Beh-Haim are certain to leave, and I am sure they realise that already!

Now, I might get slammed for this, but I believe a change is needed at the "top of the hierarchy" to refresh the squad and to start changing the current generation. With that in mind, Drogs and Lamps should be allowed to leave if a good offer comes along. Don't get me wrong, I respect what they did in their CFC career, but their attitude and performance are starting to affect the overall performance of the team!

But, first thing first...Avraam has to go! We will never win important games with him in charge!

[Chippy]

The ones I would forcibly move on in the summer are:

Malouda

Shevchenko

Pizarro

Ben Haim

Sidwell

Plus I expect Drogba and Lamps to ask for a move (though I'd rather they stayed). So, whoever the new manager is, he'll be splashing a bit of cash for around 7 new players. And will really get a chance to reshape the team into his image rather than JM's. All up we'd need:

3 new strikers (maybe that 18 year old Argie 'new Crespo' could be one of them)

1 new winger (but first the new manager should have a look at Sinclair before buying someone)

1 new central defender

1 new midfielder (ideally a playmaking creative midfielder rather than a like for like with Sidwell)

Just agreeing with the red bit of your post Brian, a new Manager really does need the chance to reshape the team into his image rather than JMs,

I hope our Manager gets that chance before we make another change,

See I think Grant is doing as good or better than Jose would have with Jose's players under the circumstances and with the improvements other teams have made this term.

[Gem]

I think a re-shape will happen this Summer, much like there was when Jose took over. I was as pissed off as anyone with all the long balls yesterday, but it's the system these players know (well, thought they knew). By playing Anelka on one flank and SWP on the other, you get some sort of idea when Grant wants - ball to feet, running in behind defences.

He'll get younger players in the Summer, probably attract a couple of dutch players with Ten Cate's influence.

Did I mention Huntelaar and Van der Vaart are fantastic on FM08.... :)

[Dorset]

The ones I would forcibly move on in the summer are:

Malouda

Shevchenko

Pizarro

Ben Haim

Sidwell

Plus I expect Drogba and Lamps to ask for a move (though I'd rather they stayed). So, whoever the new manager is, he'll be splashing a bit of cash for around 7 new players. And will really get a chance to reshape the team into his image rather than JM's. All up we'd need:

3 new strikers (maybe that 18 year old Argie 'new Crespo' could be one of them)

1 new winger (but first the new manager should have a look at Sinclair before buying someone)

1 new central defender

1 new midfielder (ideally a playmaking creative midfielder rather than a like for like with Sidwell)

Just agreeing with the red bit of your post Brian, a new Manager really does need the chance to reshape the team into his image rather than JMs,

I hope our Manager gets that chance before we make another change,

See I think Grant is doing as good or better than Jose would have with Jose's players under the circumstances and with the improvements other teams have made this term.

Chippy - would you care to elaborate on the 'good or better than Jose' performance Avram is putting in after the evidence of yesterday's game. Were you in favour of playing Anelka wide left? Did you want to see SWP wide right and not Joe? Avram get the timing of the substitutions about right?

[stanley]

If i am the manager, i would sold off the following...

1. SWP (needless to say, totally a torture to fans when he try to do a roben)

2. Kalou (need a 100 chances to score a goal)

3. Pizarro (clueless and no idea why we bought him)

4. Sidewell (perhaps a mid table team would say he is good)

5. Ben Haim (Cannot defence, why we need him when we have alex)

And the following shall not be 1st team.. they shall be used as backup

1. Sheva (Old and too expensive to maintain)

2. Malouda (i think he doesnt worth this much, look like a darren bent to me)

3. Mikel (a safe player, not enough flair, although Maka is old, but still very consistent, i wonder why Man U didnt get him instead)

4. Bridge (only when we do not have Ashley Cole)

5. Belletti (not good enough to earn a 1st team due to inconsistency.)

6. Ballack (not consistent although recent form is good hope he can provide more.)

7. Paula (poor defensive performance, a few good crosses sometimes but doesnt deserve a 1st team)

8. Alex (too bad, when the captain is fit even when he plays badly and carvalho is in form and so consistent.

I would get 2 new midfielders, 2 new wingers. and 1 right back.

Sorry with the current squad and the current manager, i would hope to give much support and believe me i do... But it cant convince myself that they can be worthy champion or pose a serious challenge to the like of Man U, Arsenal or even Liverpool... not to mention the likes of other top eurpoean teams.

[Peeking Duck?]

See I think Grant is doing as good or better than Jose would have with Jose's players under the circumstances and with the improvements other teams have made this term.

Chippy, we have disagreed on this for a while now, but I have respected your glass half full approach (maybe not publically, but I have!). However, with this statement I can now only believe you are on a wind up?

[Chippy]

See I think Grant is doing as good or better than Jose would have with Jose's players under the circumstances and with the improvements other teams have made this term.

Chippy, we have disagreed on this for a while now, but I have respected your glass half full approach (maybe not publically, but I have!). However, with this statement I can now only believe you are on a wind up?

Course I am mate,

Sack the ordinary one immidiately Bring back the special one, had you going for a while did'nt I,

thanks for respecting my posts all this time

no I cant keep that up

I'm sorry but to be honest in case the ludicrous ness of someone who believes we were on a decline under Jose is unbelievable then I am that someone

the statement you quoted is one I truely believe, I dont doubt there have been a couple of occasions wher Jose would have introduced Subs a bit quicker, he may even have employed his tactical masterstroke of pushing Essien to RB and giving us an extra midfielder or striker capable of scoring (may have helped yesterday) but not many times has Grant had the luxuary of a deceent bench so I still believe he should get more time.

we dont agree but is that not what Forums are for? if we all agreed it would be a bit boring so hopefully we will be still dissagreeing in the middle of next season where one of us can say to the other...You were right,

Hope you like Humble Pie but if it go's the other way and believe me when I think he has had long enough I will come out and say it while saying how truely excellent your judgement was.

Lets wait and see for now

[Dorset]

See I think Grant is doing as good or better than Jose would have with Jose's players under the circumstances and with the improvements other teams have made this term.

Chippy, we have disagreed on this for a while now, but I have respected your glass half full approach (maybe not publically, but I have!). However, with this statement I can now only believe you are on a wind up?

Course I am mate,

Sack the ordinary one immidiately Bring back the special one, had you going for a while did'nt I,

thanks for respecting my posts all this time

no I cant keep that up

I'm sorry but to be honest in case the ludicrous ness of someone who believes we were on a decline under Jose is unbelievable then I am that someone

the statement you quoted is one I truely believe, I dont doubt there have been a couple of occasions wher Jose would have introduced Subs a bit quicker, he may even have employed his tactical masterstroke of pushing Essien to RB and giving us an extra midfielder or striker capable of scoring (may have helped yesterday) but not many times has Grant had the luxuary of a deceent bench so I still believe he should get more time.

Bearing in mind the fact that he's got a four year contract even you, Chippy, must be hoping he gets it right sooner rather than later. Are you looking for an improvement before the CL final or during it? I'm talking about season 2008/9, of course, as this year would appear far too early to expect any improvement on a big match winning scale.

[Chippy]

Bearing in mind the fact that he's got a four year contract even you, Chippy, must be hoping he gets it right sooner rather than later. Are you looking for an improvement before the CL final or during it? I'm talking about season 2008/9, of course, as this year would appear far too early to expect any improvement on a big match winning scale.

Dorset

What sort of question is that for any chelsea fan

Do I hope he gets it right sooner rather than later? let me think about that, Yep I hope he gets it right saturday and kicks on from there but that is not to say I think thats a likely event,

I would say hope is making me think he could get some sort of idea of a system that suits the players he has at his disposal before we crash out of the CL and the same hope is that we might if they click even be able to challenge in that competition,

I would love to see a 4-4-2 with Drogba and Anelka and wonder if his persistance with Malouda was in the hope we could get some wing play going,

I dont see the training but hope he can accomadate them both while not pushing Nic wide and while still getting the ball to them so than can do what they do best (not laying on the floor Drogs )

I think as I have said Grant has proved he is worth a summer transfer window and three or four months into next season before he can be fairly judged,

ok a season wasted if he gets it wrong but if he gets it right then this season regardless of trophie count has not been a waste.

I respect your posts Dorset and find them an interesting read but that isn't to say they are any nearer to being gospel than mine,

I would give you credit to see where I'm coming from with this and hope I am right

[Dorset]

Bearing in mind the fact that he's got a four year contract even you, Chippy, must be hoping he gets it right sooner rather than later. Are you looking for an improvement before the CL final or during it? I'm talking about season 2008/9, of course, as this year would appear far too early to expect any improvement on a big match winning scale.

Dorset

What sort of question is that for any chelsea fan

Do I hope he gets it right sooner rather than later? let me think about that, Yep I hope he gets it right saturday and kicks on from there but that is not to say I think thats a likely event,

I would say hope is making me think he could get some sort of idea of a system that suits the players he has at his disposal before we crash out of the CL and the same hope is that we might if they click even be able to challenge in that competition,

I would love to see a 4-4-2 with Drogba and Anelka and wonder if his persistance with Malouda was in the hope we could get some wing play going,

I dont see the training but hope he can accomadate them both while not pushing Nic wide and while still getting the ball to them so than can do what they do best (not laying on the floor Drogs )

I think as I have said Grant has proved he is worth a summer transfer window and three or four months into next season before he can be fairly judged,

ok a season wasted if he gets it wrong but if he gets it right then this season regardless of trophie count has not been a waste.

I respect your posts Dorset and find them an interesting read but that isn't to say they are any nearer to being gospel than mine,

I would give you credit to see where I'm coming from with this and hope I am right

Chippy,

Your loyalty does you proud and I can see where you’re coming from on this topic, as indeed it is fairly obvious to see where you’re coming from on every topic involving a judgement on Avram, but I still think it’s fair question for any Chelsea fan to ask another because patience could well be in limited supply if we get a few more misjudgements like those on display yesterday. I agree that the players should take their share of the blame on this occasion and that none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes, but, in the main, opinions are based on the evidence of our own eyes and there was a lot going on yesterday that suggested Avram does not have the chutzpah needed at the highest level.

I respect the fact that you do not share that opinion, although you reserve the right to agree with it at a future date. That is, if I may say so, a very safe position to debate from in both the good times and the bad. Some of us old timers, like BlueBeard and Lofty to name a couple of others, think we can see the writing on the wall now and it is writ large, but, as you yourself are having to say a fair bit of late, we shall just have to agree to differ for the time being.

[ecthelion]

Why the hell thus everybody keep saying that "bring back jose". Mourinho is gone now and Chelsea does not need him anymore. His last year at chelsea proved that he and chelsea could no longer go on the path of success together. As he continued to bring his own players, it became more difficult for chelsea to win by a greater margin and his legacy for a new manager continued to worsen. So let me make it clear that jose return to chelsea would be nothing less than a disaster. He is a great manger who brought winning ways to chlesea instantaneously. That was what chelsea needed 4 years ago. But that is no longer the case. Now we need someone like Fergusen, Erikkson or maybe like Arsene, who comes for a long stay to chelsea to build upon jose's success. However for a new managers success a number of players will have to go.

[Chippy]

Chippy,

Your loyalty does you proud and I can see where you’re coming from on this topic, as indeed it is fairly obvious to see where you’re coming from on every topic involving a judgement on Avram, but I still think it’s fair question for any Chelsea fan to ask another because patience could well be in limited supply if we get a few more misjudgements like those on display yesterday. I agree that the players should take their share of the blame on this occasion and that none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes, but, in the main, opinions are based on the evidence of our own eyes and there was a lot going on yesterday that suggested Avram does not have the chutzpah needed at the highest level.

I dont disagree with this but for the reasons I have given more than enough times I know you can see my point,

I respect the fact that you do not share that opinion, although you reserve the right to agree with it at a future date. That is, if I may say so, a very safe position to debate from in both the good times and the bad.

I find that a bit unfair, My goal is not to turn round and say I told you so if Grant succeds, It is to give the man what I believe to be enough time and Leeway to see if he has what it takes,

Have you never reversed an idea you had about a manager or player? I thought Jose was the best around but I became more and more disgruntled with the way things were going,

Yes if he Doesn't look to be going in the right direction I will come out and say so, I have said many times I dont know if he is the man to lead Chelsea and many times that in my opinion he is doing well enough to be given time and freehand in the transfer window to see if he is.

If you think I am playing some sort of safe game by not screaming that I think he is the new messaih then you have me very wrong,

I have seen him make mistakes, I am not blind to them but I have given my reasons why I would choose to ignore them until he has had the time I think would be fair,

Some of us old timers, like BlueBeard and Lofty to name a couple of others, think we can see the writing on the wall now and it is writ large, but, as you yourself are having to say a fair bit of late, we shall just have to agree to differ for the time being.

Dorset I am every bit as much an old timer as you lot and even grew up in the same area as Bluebeard who although we disagree wholeheartedly on the Grant thing is one of my favourite posters here,

although we are all ancient, I still think my view is Justified

I have fears about the writing on the wall but I still am amazed that you cant see the need to give a man time and new players to see what he can do, It might just be something special

[abramovich]

See I think Grant is doing as good or better than Jose would have with Jose's players under the circumstances and with the improvements other teams have made this term.

Chippy, we have disagreed on this for a while now, but I have respected your glass half full approach (maybe not publically, but I have!). However, with this statement I can now only believe you are on a wind up?

This Chippy's statement i actually happen to agree with 100%. What's more, the Special One would be praised here by many as pure genius if he managed to keep us in all competitions over the last few troubled months.

We were struggling at the start of the season under Mourinho, lost to Villa away, were outplayed and should have lost to Pool if it wasn't for dodgy penalty,etc Many supporters choose to ignore it now because of all the trophies we had won under his reign but perhaps it may have been the best thing to happen to JM that he was ousted when he did because his legacy as Chelsea legend and a victim of an egomaniac owner remained intact. Had it not happen it would look so much worse if we fell apart as the season went on and his faithful wouldn't have an easy target like Grant to point finger at and lay the blame on.

The timing of Jose's exit was unfortunate but i believe he took the club as far as he possibly could and the cracks have been showing for quite a while.

It may be not Grant who should take Chelsea forward but Mourinho's time is over. We need change.

[ecthelion]

See I think Grant is doing as good or better than Jose would have with Jose's players under the circumstances and with the improvements other teams have made this term.

Chippy, we have disagreed on this for a while now, but I have respected your glass half full approach (maybe not publically, but I have!). However, with this statement I can now only believe you are on a wind up?

This Chippy's statement i actually happen to agree with 100%. What's more, the Special One would be praised here by many as pure genius if he managed to keep us in all competitions over the last few troubled months.

We were struggling at the start of the season under Mourinho, lost to Villa away, were outplayed and should have lost to Pool if it wasn't for dodgy penalty,etc Many supporters choose to ignore it now because of all the trophies we had won under his reign but perhaps it may have been the best thing to happen to JM that he was ousted when he did because his legacy as Chelsea legend and a victim of an egomaniac owner remained intact. Had it not happen it would look so much worse if we fell apart as the season went on and his faithful wouldn't have an easy target like Grant to point finger at and lay the blame on.

The timing of Jose's exit was unfortunate but i believe he took the club as far as he possibly could and the cracks have been showing for quite a while.

It may be not Grant who should take Chelsea forward but Mourinho's time is over. We need change.

Thank God somebody realized this.

[BlueBosnian]

Drogba, Sidwell, Essien, Mikel, Kalou, Ben Haim, Pizzaro.

That's seven for me, but if I see even 3 of them gone by the summer I'll be happy.

[Guest]

Given that this is the 3rd time Grants lost in his 25 or so games so far this season I suggest we do the following:

1. Castrate Grant as punishment under a 3 strikes and your out policy

2. Sell Petr Cech for not saving more penalties

3. Sell Terry for having a poor game against Tottenham

4. Sell Alex because his not Terry

5. Sell Bridge for giving away that penalty

6. Sell Beletti because he was crap last match

7. Sell Essien because he isn't as good this season as he was last

8. Strip Lampard of the vice captancy and sell him for not scoring more than 100 goals in his time at Chelsea

9. Sell Ballack because his German

10. Sell Kalou for not scoring the winner

11. Sell Drogba because his our best player and we are just stupid

12. Start fielding 15 year old youth team players in our first team because they deserve a chance to get hammered and surely they can't do any worse than our current team of seasoned professionals...........right?

13. Force Abramovich to sell and pray and hope that there is a billionaire life long Chelsea supporter whose lived his whole life within 15 miles of Stamford Bridge ready to pick up the slack and fund the clubs 70 million+ pound losses year in year out.

14. Find an ex-player who has absolutely no idea how to manage a football club at the top level and give him the job because it makes us feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

And finally.................

15. I also think we should spend 250 million pounds on new players, the premise for purchase being whoever is being talked about in the media at the time as being a good player. Alternatively, we could just purchase whoever has just played well at an international tournament such as the world cup or african nations cup completely disregarding their club form.

Pannicking and making rash changes is ALLWAYS the best way to deal with any situation

[laman]

How about to get rid of fans:

1. Who don't support their team, when it is loosing.

2. Who calling to sack manager after he's received death threats and may be was a little distraught from the game.

3. Who badmouth the owner, which to continue to invest time and money despite gigantic losses.

[Guest Brian M]

How about to get rid of fans:

1. Who don't support their team, when it is loosing.

2. Who calling to sack manager after he's received death threats and may be was a little distraught from the game.

3. Who badmouth the owner, which to continue to invest time and money despite gigantic losses.

Avaram, is that you?

(if it is, resign in shame)

[Guest -NM-]

It's a difficult one this. Do we make whole sale changes and hope that that makes a difference, or do we persist with what we'e got and hope that eventually they get it right?

If we make big changes things could work out, or they could go severly tits up.

If we persist, maybe we will work it out, or maybe we'll just decline and decline until Roman is forced to admit he was wrong in his appointment, but by then it could be too late..

In my opinion we need to make changes, no doubt about that, but not huge, wholesale changes.

I would get rid of:

Grant - Not a football manager, at least not at this level. We need someone who is going to win things.

Ferriera - Decent back up, but there's better out there.

Ben Haim - No need for him now we have Alex and Inavanic (spelling :S)

Malouda - Had high hopes for him after his first 2 games, but he's just disappeared off the map really. Blind alley syndrome seems to have passed from SWP to him and he just faffs around with the ball instead of actually doing anything with it.

Shevchenko - I'm not completely sure about this one. If i was making this list a few months ago he would be on it for sure. But just before he got injured he was starting to show some form - scoring goals and generally playing better. However my worry is that the injury will put him right back to square one, because he will have gone a few months without any match practice..

Pizzarro - I'm sure i don't need to elaborate much on this one. He's not Chelsea quality, plain and simple.

One's that i am undecided about:

Sidwell - He's not really good enough, but he's a decent enough backup when we get injuries/suspensions, so i think we might as well hang on to him since he didn't cost anything and i doubt his wages are too outrageous.

SWP - Has improved since he first came here, but i'm not sure if it's enough to justify staying. For one thing his crosses seem to be quite poor most of the time...when we actually bother to get to the byline and deliver any..

Drogba - I don't like him very much. It seemed that in his 3rd season he finally pulled his act together and stopped his whining and diving and concentrated on just playing football, and low and behold he scored about 33 goals. But it looks like now that Jose is gone he's gone back to his old ways. Maybe because he was scared of Jose to some extent, but one look at Grant and you can see that he hardly instills fear in the dressingroom..

[Dorset]

Chippy,

Your loyalty does you proud and I can see where you’re coming from on this topic, as indeed it is fairly obvious to see where you’re coming from on every topic involving a judgement on Avram, but I still think it’s fair question for any Chelsea fan to ask another because patience could well be in limited supply if we get a few more misjudgements like those on display yesterday. I agree that the players should take their share of the blame on this occasion and that none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes, but, in the main, opinions are based on the evidence of our own eyes and there was a lot going on yesterday that suggested Avram does not have the chutzpah needed at the highest level.

I dont disagree with this but for the reasons I have given more than enough times I know you can see my point,

I respect the fact that you do not share that opinion, although you reserve the right to agree with it at a future date. That is, if I may say so, a very safe position to debate from in both the good times and the bad.

I find that a bit unfair, My goal is not to turn round and say I told you so if Grant succeds, It is to give the man what I believe to be enough time and Leeway to see if he has what it takes,

Have you never reversed an idea you had about a manager or player? I thought Jose was the best around but I became more and more disgruntled with the way things were going,

Yes if he Doesn't look to be going in the right direction I will come out and say so, I have said many times I dont know if he is the man to lead Chelsea and many times that in my opinion he is doing well enough to be given time and freehand in the transfer window to see if he is.

If you think I am playing some sort of safe game by not screaming that I think he is the new messaih then you have me very wrong,

I have seen him make mistakes, I am not blind to them but I have given my reasons why I would choose to ignore them until he has had the time I think would be fair,

Some of us old timers, like BlueBeard and Lofty to name a couple of others, think we can see the writing on the wall now and it is writ large, but, as you yourself are having to say a fair bit of late, we shall just have to agree to differ for the time being.

Dorset I am every bit as much an old timer as you lot and even grew up in the same area as Bluebeard who although we disagree wholeheartedly on the Grant thing is one of my favourite posters here,

although we are all ancient, I still think my view is Justified

I have fears about the writing on the wall but I still am amazed that you cant see the need to give a man time and new players to see what he can do, It might just be something special

Chippy, I know you are as much of an an old timer as the rest of us and I didn’t mean to offend by suggesting that you argued with a safety net, but I do believe your final sentence gives us an opportunity to narrow down the argument somewhat. That ‘need’ to give a man time is matched by a need to know exactly how much time that man requires and whether or not that time is going to be well spent. I wont waste time harping back to Jose, except to say that he was someone who needed no time at all.

In Avram’s case, by common consent as well as academic requirement, the need for time extends further and involves learning how to do the job at far higher level than he has been used to date. Roman did not regard this as a stumbling block and, like you, clearly felt he should be given a 4 year contract of a chance (now that’s what I call amazing) to get the tactics and substitutions right. With such support, how can anyone argue against the possibility of him going on to buy new players and achieve something special - we just don’t know so, yes, maybe that would (or will) happen, given time.

However, what many of us believe is that, if you are managing a big club like Chelsea, you shouldn’t be learning as you go along - you should be right up there at the top of your profession already, putting all of your time and effort into proving you have everything it takes. BlueBeard doesn’t want to watch anymore while Avram completes whatever process he’s going through, Lofty thinks it’s all a ****ing disgrace and I have some sympathy with both points of view. It is in this area that our opinions diverge from yours - no more, no less.

[Chippy]

Chippy, I know you are as much of an an old timer as the rest of us and I didn’t mean to offend by suggesting that you argued with a safety net, but I do believe your final sentence gives us an opportunity to narrow down the argument somewhat. That ‘need’ to give a man time is matched by a need to know exactly how much time that man requires and whether or not that time is going to be well spent. I wont waste time harping back to Jose, except to say that he was someone who needed no time at all.

True he came in and done the Business, but I firmly believe the team he inherited from Claudio was better than the team Grant inherited from him, If you dont go with that debatable view how about the rest of the Prem (top 6 or 7) mainly top 2 have improved where Chelsea have not?

In Avram’s case, by common consent as well as academic requirement, the need for time extends further and involves learning how to do the job at far higher level than he has been used to date. Roman did not regard this as a stumbling block and, like you, clearly felt he should be given a 4 year contract of a chance (now that’s what I call amazing) to get the tactics and substitutions right.

Again I take exception to your assumptions of my view, look back to the posts when Grant was given a four year contract, it is not what I would have chosen as Grant is not the man I would have chosen for the job, as I have said, once he was given the Job as long as we did'nt drop down the table like a lead balloon I feel he deserves the chance to bring in players to change the style as this team is perfect for Jose and Grant IMO has seen that the best way to play them is try to do it Jose's way, he is not the expert Jose was in this type of play and it wont work for him, then he trys to go halfway between Jose's defensive style and slinging our best strikers in together and trips himself up again,

as I said if I were to put a time limit on Grants tenure I would say he needs the Summer transfer window and three or four months of the new season, if things are not looking up then, I would say thats time enough,

I know he has made mistakes but maintain any new man in with this squad could easily do the same or worse.

With such support, how can anyone argue against the possibility of him going on to buy new players and achieve something special - we just don’t know so, yes, maybe that would (or will) happen, given time.

However, what many of us believe is that, if you are managing a big club like Chelsea, you shouldn’t be learning as you go along - you should be right up there at the top of your profession already, putting all of your time and effort into proving you have everything it takes.

When I say he is learning, I am not saying learning to manage a football team, I mean learning what to expect from the players at his disposal and how best to organize them,

I dont like most mean to portray him running about with an L plate on his back because he has'nt got some Coaching Badge,

BlueBeard doesn’t want to watch anymore while Avram completes whatever process he’s going through, Lofty thinks it’s all a ****ing disgrace and I have some sympathy with both points of view. It is in this area that our opinions diverge from yours - no more, no less.

I know Bluebeards views on this and I fully expect to talk about them in match chat Saturday but if he is serious it will be a shame as he is a top character on here and differing opinions is what its all about on a forum,

the weird thing is with this Grant topic that most discussions I get in and quotes from others regarding my support of the manager assume that I think the sun shines out of his A*se, when my point is only that I believe under the circumstances with a team built around Jose and his style, he is doing as good as anyone could have expected,

I defended him from day one and never for a minute then thought we would reach even the CC final let alone expect to win it, like most of us did.

He and the team let us down but at least we got there.