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next time you see the goal, watch him and be honest with yourself.

mate I'm not saying he shouldn't. i'm saying luiz totally fell asleep after cross went beyond him.

when you watch that goal again, do me a favour and follow luiz. he's started this game as badly as cahill- very poorly. and less a comment on either individually, but jesus, until we get a defender who organises people around them JT is going to have to stay in the side even if his legs are amputated.

he was as culpable as anyone in that goal. misses the clearing header, then falls asleep when it isn't dealt with. he was marking okazaki!

our central defenders have started in a manner that suggests we need two central defenders.

yeah its a completely unfair criticism, despite the consensus from the ex players. people are comfortable doing different things in preparation for competition.

That's by the by- I don't think baker is even a certainty to be a premier league player yet, but I can't deny he's good technically. Ruben has it all to prove that he's a good footballer, but that isn't down to a lack of technique. What's even more puzzling is the implication that he has already been found out and that being on the basis of an absence of technique. He's technically better than lampard for example! How good a player is technically doesn't equal how good they are football. P. S. re tammy, Already its clear he's no Marco mitrovic. He did need this loan that tell us what would happen when he plays against men. So far, so good. I still think solanke is the bigger prospect (and that he has been judged harshly on his loan last season, he moved just after turning 18 don't forget), but nothing more can be asked of him at the moment. Seems a great lad too and that desire to improve himself should help him improve a lot, just like ola.

eh? loftus cheek is very good technically. sure you're not thinking of frank nouble or someone?

Why do people persist with this idea that players should be assessed out of the context of the team? So far the team is creating chances. Isn't that ultimately what is important? I'm so bored of this idea that you can take a player out for someone else and feel the individual benefit of that player's qualities without considering the way that change might affect the way the rest of the team functions? Put fabregas in for oscar and yes, you have a better passet in the middle. (I love oscar but I would not claim he is a better passer, or even a better footballer. For my money he isn't.) You lose the ability to press effectively though, you lose a player who can run behind Costa when has has his back to goal, you lose the rotation of the three players on the right, and lose some defensive solidity. How can you watch us this season and conclude these players aren't attacking in a very predetermined fashion? Conte doesn't put his most creative players on the pitch and expect them to sort it out, which to a degree is what Jose does. He picks the players most capable of strictly following instruction. P.s. For me the only way fabregas gets into his team is by playing behind the midfield. Which might need kante ahead of him. He doesn't see too bothered with trying it at the moment though.

Started the season well and deserves to be in the side so far imo. Early days though, I wouldn't expect his critics to be won over at this point...

they were very wide, but then with the ball they need to be so they can keep it. I'm saying it is either stones playing ten yards ahead of otamendi or the fullbacks in midfield (and fernandinho as the deepest defender). he's used both so far but given that those fullbacks are much poorer with the ball than stones I'd expect it to be stones 'in midfield' in the bigger games. it's easy for clichy and sagna if all they need to do is sit on the counter attacking options and never get pressed, but in those games I wouldn't expect it.

well personally I felt cech still slightly edged it too. but watching them both since, and given their age difference, I think it was an excellent decision by jose. we criticise him for making mistakes with the likes of de bruyne but I think this call was a very good one.

cech was a fantastic keeper, before and after the injuries. lets not make any bones about that. but this here is a classic grass is greener case; when courtois was on loan at atletico people here were moaning we'd loaned out our best keeper etc etc. then when he came back and was made first choice no-one complained, until cech was sold, at which point we'd sold our best keeper! courtois has had one very good season, his first in england, and an average one last year in which he had a bad injury and for various reason the entire side imploded. even then, the obvious gap between him and a merely 'good' keeper like begovic was totally evident. there's no point comparing him to cech behind a peak JT, gallas, carvalho, bridge, ferreira, makelele, lampard and essien. those guys don't grow on trees and we will go decades before ever having a group that good defensively. lets not forget all of courtois' best years are ahead of him. he's an exceptional keeper and so far this season he could've done nothing with the goals we've conceded (and nor could petr) and the only mistake he made was the concession of the pen, which was not a huge error, nor was it the key error in the goal (although the consequence was big, like they often are for keepers).

I'm unconvinced that he could be an orthodox midfield player. but I don't understand the call for him to play there now of all times, when a) oscar is doing that job well (imo) and b) the two are rotating positions a lot anyway. as far as de bruyne and silva go, they can play there because guadiola has used either both fulbacks or john stones as an auxiliary midfield player. but they're not really playing as midfielders- they are close to the striker (in what people refer to as the no.10 position now) and the de facto midfield is made up of other players (the two fullbacks or fernandinho and stones). with the ball city are playing a 361.

@coco but there's the possibility they'll line up with firmino through the middle and sturridge on the right, or any number of other set ups. mane could play from the left. I'm a bit worried that they're set up to play on the counter and under conte we set up to keep the ball. I think the styles suit them on paper. on the other hand if they play two midfielders in their back four you'd expect we'd score. as much as we've started well in both results and performances I'm quite worried about this one...

I think we should (and will) see the same front six. they deserve to be starting and I don't think this is the time to change a system that is a) working and b) still a work in progress. JT is almost definitely out. ivanovic was lucky swansea didn't play wingers IMO and if he's put directly up against the pace of some of their attacking players, mane in particular, you'd expect him to suffer. he was good against swansea though so could perhaps count himself unlucky to lose his place. alongside cahill it will surely be luiz so maybe bran will survive if conte thinks two changes to the defence is one too many. they're vulnerable defensively, we may be too against their forward line.

@just I get what you're saying- if anything, for all the talk of cahill's touch today, fer was already on the run to close him down before JT played the pass (i.e. he should've played it elsewhere). I don't expect conte to rethink- I think playing out from the back is something he will want us to do for the most part of every game- personally I'm okay with it. he's a training ground manager, and he will have to be to make it successful with those players. I think what he does with and what he gets from david luiz will define whether he's a success in the end. I'm tired of seeing long balls up to ivanovic positioned in the opposition's half because if he loses that ball he's way out of position (and possibly, hopefully he won't be starting at fullback soon anyway) and neither costa or batshuayi are going to win the ball that often from long goal kicks.

costa. great finishes, should've had a hat trick really, but his general play was significantly better than it has been this season. thought the midfield three were very strong when they were together. understand why oscar and matic were subbed, thought kante struggled alongside fabregas once the game stretched at the end and although cesc wasn't bad when he came on I think these three look unlikely to be broken up any time soon.

I think some of you have been extremely, extremely harsh in here. I think he's a fantastic keeper, one of our biggest assets for sure. he's a different gravy to begovic and the vast majority of keepers in the world IMO. we're not going to find a better keeper any time soon. he did make an error today though- didn't really need to commit to the challenge given the ball was going away from goal.

disagree with both points respectfully- really, in terms of aggressive closing down that is what you want- if you're being closed down high enough and you play out of the press then you've got a great chance to create clean opportunities to score. having said that, I'm not sure it suits cahill or zouma all that well (or begovic for that matter). but the more you do it the better you'll get. like anything, it is about risk and reward. on 3 at the back, well in effect we won the title playing three at the back (in a way) under ancelotti- but people said we (or anyone) couldn't succeed without playing 442 in england until jose turned up and did it. it isn't a popular system, and it needs more coaching and specialist defenders, but in theory I don't see why it couldn't work.

fair enough, probably an overreaction on my part. I do expect to be asked for a comment about every defensive error not involving david luiz for the rest of the season, mind. for what it is worth I don't want to see cahill as a first choice in the long term. I just think he was good today, like pretty much everyone who played.

too clumsy and slow for what? they created 0 chances as a consequence of his play today (that I can recall). in fact he actually saved us at least once when we were in a bit of trouble. fer had no chance of winning the ball fairly and going on to score. look at that gif! he's literally in the process of passing the ball back to courtois as he gets kicked twice, once in each foot. as for the luiz comment, do I need to dignify that with an answer? because it is absolutely pathetic. you're better than nonsense insinuation.

would also add that yes, whilst we should've put the game to bed and yes, that is something we still need to improve, I don't understand this attitude that we should be annoyed with ourselves as much as any one else; we scored enough to win the game, and we would've done just that had the ref not had a poor game. anyway the response to going one down when we really should've been two up and a man up was good- we kept playing and kept creating. that was heartening to see, as was matic and oscar's continued improvement.

what let him down today was a very bad piece of refereering. a guess. yes, he's average on the ball, but the errors made in the goal incident were totally minor- he was in control of the situation and had an easy pass to the keeper if he wasn't fouled. his body was directly between fer and the ball, there was no fair way fer could dispossess him without going to ground (and therefore he would be unlikely / unable to score). if the referee does his job would anyone be talking about cahill receiving the ball badly? no. he's no JT but it is such a nothing error in the scheme of things.

why is cahill getting any blame whatsoever? he was fouled at least twice for their second goal.