g3.7

great post mate, aside from the above. you don't have to trust conte. we don't even know if he wants him. but if he does, and this is speaking as someone who was pro conte coming for months, then this right here is his first big mistake. remember how at inter and then at city and liverpool, and for italy too, you had manager after manager look at mario balotelli and see someone with technique, strength and speed and think "I can get inside his head and turn this guy into a player"? each of them failed, some of them lost their jobs on the back of this gamble. yet, for a time, they still lined up. signing david luiz is hubris of the highest order. if conte is behind it I think it is time to put a mark in your calendar. in a year or two when we look at how he lost his job, this will be the first day we look at. if it isn't conte, if it is anyone at this club, a person or people that already know him, then they need to leave the club, and probably football. if you miss luiz' wacky personality so much, get a skype account. this is, in a way, potentially the worst transfer in the club's history. we know how bad he is.

he's got huge technical and physical qualities, but no brain. no instinct for position, no instinct for self preservation, no instinct for working as a component in a team rather than as an individual who does as he pleases. that final point is why I just cannot understand why conte of all people would want him. I think on the whole his performances in midfield were overrated, you had to laugh because at the time bashing steven gerrard for haring all over the place and launching passes in all sorts of directions whenever he got the ball was the forum hobby. yet when luiz did exactly the same thing for us in midfield he was hailed as some sort of genius. I guess it was because his mistakes had less immediate, less severe, less tangible consequences and that was the form our collective relief took. no longer was he conceding clear chances by stepping out to win 30/70 challenges in the opponents favour. now he was merely launching the ball out of reach of juan mata, or slowing a one touch move down so he could do a stepover, or vacating his position to dribble down a blind alley. occasionally he'd then belt one in from 30 yards with such incredibly pure technique. and we'd forget about all that other stuff and laugh about gerrard. until he did the same. then we'd say lampard was better. at least we were right about that one... he is absolutely the opposite of what I would describe as a footballer. when cryuff died all those quotes from him did the rounds. my favourite is: david luiz is not a good footballer. p.s. he does have a great amount of charisma though, and that isn't to be overlooked. just like drogba he could inspire players around him. and he took one of the greatest penalties against bayern in what was by far his final hour. to play so courageously, through an injury was amazing. but for all of the blocks, self sacrifice and courage, it wasn't a good 'technical' defensive performance from him or cahill, who was equally good. nine times out of ten we'd have lost that game- no-one will look at our defending in that match and commit it to a textbook.

he's worked with laurent blanc, carlo ancelotti, rafael benitez and jose mourinho. but yeah, maybe antonio conte is the man to teach this guy how to defend...

@barak81 well you're definitely right about the style- it appears to be all patterns and 'set pieces' in open play designed to get in behind on the flanks. already you can see how wide matic and oscar are and how rarely they pass to one another (or directly to the striker). so a left footed fullback on the left would help- azpilicueta is definitely getting forwards more for example. I read 'pep confidential' earlier this year (about guardiola's first season at bayern, which I recommend) and he was obsessed with creating a style that ended with the wingers either crossing or shooting and it looks like conte wants to do something similar. but my reservation isn't the type of player alonso is. it's whether he's good enough. so far the only pluses I'm sure he offers is a left foot, versatility and he's played in england before.

unless conte's a proficient surgeon then it ain't happening, the man needs a brain transplant.

feels like a huge improvement, well done

@barak81@dkw @bjd I disagree with this quite strongly. if you are a £30m player agents will know what the going rate for your wage should be. yes, the new TV deal has inflated the market quite a bit, but I think more than ever we should err on caution- this club has a history under abramovich of buying players and handing out huge wages, which consequently commits us to (to them for) the length of their contract. sheva, veron, crespo, torres, cuadrado etc etc are players who, for one reason or another, didn't work out and then we were saddled with their wages and unable to sell them. so we were hit 3 times; not getting the level of performance we paid for, being saddled with a percentage of their wage when they were out on loan, being unable to recoup money through a transfer because the buyer couldn't match the wages paid. I don't believe that wages haven't inflated in line with transfer fees so we need to be extremely careful. elsewhere in the market we have seen that you can still sign high quality players for around what we're rumoured to be bidding for alonso. I don't want us to overspend on players who are seen as a 'punt'. p.s. like most of the people on here I've not seen much of alonso. I can ignore all of those testimonies from posters on that fiorentina message board because, frankly, who knows how good a judge those people are? if they are as hysterical as some people on here then they should be ignored. so I'm a bit queasy with siding with some of those hysterical people on this one. but as I say, I do think that IF this is a last minute gamble then it is fair for people to be concerned right? we shouldn't have to be enthused just because it is a new signing... obviously certain people are willing him to be a bad signing to fit their agenda, but hand on heart I'm not doing that. taken in totality though, how late we were linked / bid for him, his lack of international experience, a fairly unremarkable club CV, the suggestion that he's not the quickest (true also of forum darling ricardo rodriguez, mind), the absolute lack of any expert witness suggesting this is even a decent deal for us... I don't see how anyone, unless they've seen him often, can say they feel positive about this transfer. we need one or two defenders, true, but they can't be literally anyone surely? obviously the idiots will be waiting with baited breath for the first mistake to come so they can call him awful, but even in the real world I don't see why I should feel any confidence in this transfer. I suspect we're getting an average (relative to our ambition) player and we're paying much more than we should for the privilege. what we need, IMO, is someone who can put bran out of the side AND do it on the strength of more than being 25 years old and still being able to run. I'm not even completely sure he'll do more than sit on the bench. can anyone reassure me that isn't the case?

I would rather see us spend £80m on johnny evans than have luiz back on a free.

I think this one is good for all involved. a season playing as a wingback is only going to help him.

have to be honest, I'm not that enthused about the prospect of us signing this guy. I think ideally we'd sign a first choice quality defender or failing that someone young with the potential to be that. I think this signing feels like it would add depth (which I accept we need, and if he's versatile all the better) but not necessarily improve our first 11. and at the price quoted it seems like we're not getting a great deal.

conte's already pressed it mate.

has been obvious from day one conte has no interest in him being part of the squad. but with him gone this is another position where we have very little cover. and we're about to start measuring the transfer window in hours. maybe solanke is signing a new contract and staying. having ruben as our third striker isn't good enough, especially if we are going to play two up at times.

the manchester derby is shaping up to be a good one. so far from what we've seen I think those two sides look clear favourites but after that I don't see anyone looking notably better than us. p.s. brit did you see how far away the west ham fans are from the pitch at their new ground? completely the opposite of upton park.

that's just from the past 24 hours or so.

fans who want youth players to get given a chance aren't ridiculed. you are ridiculed. for saying ridiculous things.

musonda or traore would've posted this graph so I think it is a bit of a stretch to say you've "contributed" to this discussion.

if we can't praise players for coming on when we're winning and playing well presumably we cannot criticise them for coming on and playing badly if we ultimately end up winning? on your second point, you are talking hypothetically. musonda or traore didn't come on and put an inch perfect cross in with their weaker foot, pedro did. you can't say for sure that they would have done, whereas I can say for sure that pedro did. because he did. and in any case, I stopped associating chelsea with clinical counter attacking many, many months ago. so I think that the contribution of the subs was great to see and was far from meaningless.

why is the word assist in quotation marks? are you suggesting he didn't actually create a goal? also why shouldn't people point to him contributing as evidence that he's capable of... er... contributing?

Eden but it really was good all round. Kante had his best game and the entire front six all played well. Would like to give matic some credit. He's hopefully working his way back to his best...

Although I attended the match, after reading the expert opinions from page 5 on our starting line up I decided to face away from the pitch with my fingers in my ears for the full 90. Whilst I know for sure we played sh*t, I was wondering if anyone could tell me if we got at least a point?

Good line up

I agree that we shouldn't be letting players leave without getting their replacements in first, it doesn't make much sense in terms of squad building and it leaves us in a weaker negotiating position for their replacements. I don't really care to compare us to man united, they are a club that can afford to sign any player in the world- they'll get no congratulation from me for paying mino raiola more than £30m in total this summer. without abramovich we can't do that and I hope we never go back to him writing blank cheques because that has given us a reputation as a soft touch in the market (and I want to see a club that is not dependent on any one person). batshuayi looks like he could be good and kante is a great signing given his price and the other clubs that were surely interested. but at present we have 6 defenders in the squad, 3 of them are 30 or older, 2 of them have a year left on their contract, one of them is out with a long term injury and one of them has played one game in his senior career. that needs to change- ideally we'd get them in before pre season, but so long as we make the signings I don't think heads need to roll... p.s. it is ridiculous that the transfer window is open two weeks after the season has started. that needs to change, whether the season starts later or the window closes earlier.

Dunno. I like him.

I'm sorry, you can't just lump a new manager in with the old ones just because it is convenient for your argument. Conte has been manager for three games.

for me I'm not interested in a club or manager statement. we had that from emenalo and jose respectively in the last three years. I don't think pogba proves anything for conte- he was a once in a generation talent. when one of the kids starts appearing regularly, even off the bench, in the league. that is the sign I'm holding out for. then I will feel that player is being considered seriously as a first team player. if and when that happens I will feel like there is a bridge from the academy to the first team.