It's a very tough job, as AVB is finding out, and I hope Roman is patient. I like our manager, but he is only 34, and with the sh*tstorm that's broken around JT, and all the knowhow that's required to deal with that, that's incredibly young, not just in terms of dealing with the player, but also his teammates and an increasingly hostile media. It's a complicated situation and one he has no experience of, not just in managerial terms but also in life terms. He has precious little life experience and now he has to mentor players almost his age, and players, in the case of JT, who are in an enormously hard situation, both publicly and privately ..

This will affect JT. He was friends with Rio and Anton, who have enormous influence over other black players. You can bet Anton's word is taken as gospel among that circle and JT has become persona non grata. That will prey on his mind, especially as England captain. I have no doubt Rio and Anton have started a campaign against him among their peers, of which there are many. Text messages and phone calls aplenty. To be ostracised by that camp, if I can call it that, will weigh heavily on his mind I suspect, as it's never nice to be deemed a pariah. Add to this the Wayne Bridge angle, and this will only add substance to those that have been badmouthing him all along. He may find himself in an impossible situation.

Why do I mention it? The manager. This is where he earns his corn.

Then we have referees, which I'm convinced is linked to the media. I can think of four referees who definitely don't like us ..

Dowd, Dean, Foy, Halsey.

We are never going to get anything off them, we know that. We have become an easy target, for opposing fans, opposing players and managers, and for the media, and this has trickled down to officials, I am in no doubt about that. Bad decisions against us just do not get scrutinised in the same way as they do for other clubs, particularly other clubs challenging for the top prizes. Either these referees hate us, as the whole country seems to, and the negative publicity has influenced them (as it would most human beings), or they just know that the impact of giving us a raw deal won't be as bad as it otherwise would. I'm not saying they do this deliberately, as I'm sure most refs take pride in their performance, but subconsciously. It's just far harder for us to get justice. If you're refereeing Liverpool, every decision that goes against them will be scrutinised to the hilt, with no little bias. Of course this affects you.

AVB has to find the right balance of applying pressure on refs and calling it as it is, while avoiding ostracising himself from them and making it even worse. Referees can definitely be influenced, and he needs to redress the balance, but he has to be clever. It is not easy. Chelsea is a completely different kettle of fish to Porto. We are being victimised, by the public and the media. Rival teams are not our biggest opponents. It's a serious problem and it's affected referees. We are not getting a fair deal. Not even close.

And no, I'm not usually prone to paranoia.

9 points behind City is a lot. We may struggle to make top four but I doubt it. AVB is learning his trade, and it has been a quick initiation. He now knows what it's all about, and it's not exactly straightforward. The more time he gets, the more his status grows, the more life experience he gains, the more he may be able to influence things in a positive way, things which at the moment appear to be out of his control.

We need to change the way we're perceived. It's okay being hated so long as we're not seen as everyone's f**king mugs, and that's the challenge that faces him and it's a complicated one.

How for instance do we go after the best English talent? Why would they join us, knowing all the hassle that comes with it? Look at the experiences of Terry and Ashley. Lampard has never received the recognition he deserves. If you had the top four or five English teams after you, you'd probably be well advised to go elsewhere. Our image among Englanders is poor. Very poor.

It's all very well saying it doesn't matter, but it does. It matters very much unfortunately.

There are definitely things that need improving on the pitch, but I have every confidence in the manager in that respect, I just hope he can deal with all the things that need addressing off it. Management is a very challenging game and you have to be very clever, particularly at our club I'm afraid. You either have to be a genius or experienced, or both.

I just hope Roman has patience ..

Thinking about it, is this AVB`s first real problem as a manager since he began? At his first club he outperformed massively under a different kind of pressure to now. At Porto it really couldnt have went any better, though I would presume it wasnt all plain sailing. But this now is a true test of his skills, a managers job is relatively simple when a side is winning, just keep them going. Its when a team suffers a hard to take defeat that a managers job becomes a whole different ball game.

We're also in the middle of quite a drastic transition at the moment. We're playing a completely new system, the complete opposite of what Mourinho built here. The last of Mourinho's "untouchables" are also on their swan song and trying to adapt to this system in the twilight of their careers. Drogba isn't leading our front line anymore, Torres is. Who'd have thought we'd be saying that this time last year?

This isn't just new to us either, its new to AVB. I believe he largely inherited the Porto squad and turned them into an unbeatable unit. Porto already had the sort of players he needed (relative to the competition) to instil the philosophy and style he likes. Here he didn't just inherit the squad like Carlo and others post Mourinho - he's doing everything he can to make it his own. The introduction of Mata and promotion of Sturridge has changed our attack completely. Last season our attack was exclusively composed of Kalou, Anelka and Malouda supporting Drogba. Now, after one pre season, none of them claim a regular place. That is a pretty big change for a team to accept.

The midfield is undergoing similar changes and the defence is well, we'll find out what they're meant to be doing in time I suppose. I believe in January the squad will look more different than it does now. Whats ironic is, this is exactly what most people were calling for under previous managers. Some sort of change. Well change is finally here and we've got a manager willing and able to take us in a new direction rather than try out his preferred system until it goes wrong then retreat back to Mourinho's design for another year. The problem is, growing pains is to be expected.

Nobody can come in and fundamentally change a team in the snap of a finger. Could you take Barcelona's squad and make them play like Chelsea circa 2005 from day one? I'd wager they'd be sucking pretty hard for a while trying to physically dominate a game, play lightening fast counters from wide and kill opposition rhythm after reaching a pre-established scoreline - with the discipline to pull it off without getting half your side sent off. Its going to take some time for the manager to fine tune his vision for us and for the squad to realise it. Thats just a fact everyone needs to accept. That obviously doesn't excuse humiliations at home to a local rival, but it does grant some breathing room.

The high line for instance is obviously what he wants to do. He did it at Porto and they set a better defensive record than Mourinho's Porto. Just look at Barcelona to see it executed correctly, they're not easy to score against. If he gave up on it now and took the cowards way out, the team would never learn it and we'd be back to where we were last year. I'm not even convinced by this tactic but I can see why he's persisting with it and you can bet that when it starts coming together for us people will be quick to forget the suffering we had to go through to get there.

Excellent posts (all three of them) and pretty much 'nail on head' for me.

This huge change we are undergoing has become glaringly apparent after yesterday (if it wasn't before) in that the true task of morphing Jose's Chelsea into a more 'flair based' side is not going to be an easy one.

I like the previous posters hope that AVb gets a proper chance to see it through, this doesn't of course take away the frustration (and sometimes anger) of being thumped along the way !

Alan

I agree that we will need patience, and after becoming accustomed to winning at will, this will be hard for some fans, and it's imperative that they don't put pressure on the manager, but rather show support, particularly as I believe we will ultimately reap the reward.

Hysterical reactions are par for the course these days but they're unhelpful, particularly as AVB is implementing something of a revolution, in terms of playing style and personnel. I expect Oriol to be a feature in the starting side soon, meaning we will be starting with at least five players who weren't with us this time last year.

As we lined-up against Arsenal, I noted the absence of powerhouses such as Alex, Drogba, Essien etc, and I wondered how we'd fare. We've always overcome Arsenal by brute strength in the past, and they haven't been able to cope. We are less physically imposing these days, but that's the way we're going, it's a progressive approach and needs time, evidently, especially as we don't have the midfielder we sought in the summer, the guy who can keep the ball and do something with it. The signs are encouraging for me, but lessons have to be learned after yesterday. All our oponents will have taken note.

Regarding referees and the press, I can think of one or two managers who would use the situation to their advantage, making bold statements to the press, making themselves the story, causing the players to give them that bit extra on the pitch, and fostering a siege mentality: Us against them, the odds stacked against us.

If I were Andre I would get to work on this right now ..

I would lambast the press for hounding Terry, claiming it a witchhunt, and I would accuse referees of letting the press set their agenda, rather than refereeing our games fairly.

In short, I would go on the offensive, even if it lands me in trouble. It is something Fergie or Jose wouldn't think twice about ..

It may be time for Andre to make a splash. At the very least, it would take a bit of the heat off Terry ..

As we lined-up against Arsenal, I noted the absence of powerhouses such as Alex, Drogba, Essien etc, and I wondered how we'd fare. We've always overcome Arsenal by brute strength in the past, and they haven't been able to cope.

Thats a very good point, without Drogba (and its questionable whether he would have started even if fit) our way of playing against Arsenal changed completely. Ive said for quite a few years that I though we play better football when Drogba didnt play, though not necessarily more effective football. With Drogba our players knew they could just smack it up to the big fella and he would control it and cause problems. Without him we have to play more passing to get through or beyond a defence.

Thats a very good point, without Drogba (and its questionable whether he would have started even if fit) our way of playing against Arsenal changed completely. Ive said for quite a few years that I though we play better football when Drogba didnt play, though not necessarily more effective football. With Drogba our players knew they could just smack it up to the big fella and he would control it and cause problems. Without him we have to play more passing to get through or beyond a defence.

But its our fault we didn't put them to the sword in the first 20 minutes but instead let them back into the game. We consistently opened them up till we scored then let them control the game. So even without the power houses we manged to create several goal scoring opportunities but we didn't take them through poor decision making in the final third. That to me is the one of the worst parts about yesterday we could of been 3 nil up and continued to humiliate them instead let them dominate and build confidence which before they were lacking.

Your right, we bombed at least 2 brilliant chances (more like 3 really) especially the 3 on 1 that Sturridge just passed back to their keeper. We created enough chances to win 2 games yesterday.

Until last year dkw. When Djourou took him to school at the Emirates.

Just on the physical side, I don't think the powerhouses would have helped us yesterday. They may have made things worse given the requirement of movement for pressing and whatnot. That said for me Alex is still the second best defender at the club. Not just that but he and JT have a connection. In my experience from playing there, that is so important. Now perhaps the high line makes an Alex-JT axis unsustainable, but his absence (and the absence of that centre half partnership) this season has been part of the cause of our issues.

Edited October 30, 201114 yr by Spiller86

But its our fault we didn't put them to the sword in the first 20 minutes but instead let them back into the game. We consistently opened them up till we scored then let them control the game. So even without the power houses we manged to create several goal scoring opportunities but we didn't take them through poor decision making in the final third. That to me is the one of the worst parts about yesterday we could of been 3 nil up and continued to humiliate them instead let them dominate and build confidence which before they were lacking.

Good points there, our attackers were just as culpable for the defeat as the defence. Three times in the first 5 mins we were clear through only for Ash and Studge to delay the killer ball and Torres not to make enough of an effort to get to the ball on the first chance. I think yesterday though was the first game when we clearly missed a fit Essien.

Maybe all this switching of Defensive partners is doing Terry no favours at all. He hasnt been able to settle all season, added to that is playing a new higher line then its perhaps no surprise to see a disjointed defence at the moment.

Good points there, our attackers were just as culpable for the defeat as the defence. Three times in the first 5 mins we were clear through only for Ash and Studge to delay the killer ball and Torres not to make enough of an effort to get to the ball on the first chance. I think yesterday though was the first game when we clearly missed a fit Essien.

With the torres not getting to the ball the defender done well imho. But ash delayed his crosses all afternoon. This is why I rate Bertrand highly as he can cross the ball where I dont find ash's crossing ability very good tbh. Walcott also took him to town and this is happening too often. I hope Bertrand can be introduced soon so he is ready to take ash's place.

Maybe all this switching of Defensive partners is doing Terry no favours at all. He hasnt been able to settle all season, added to that is playing a new higher line then its perhaps no surprise to see a disjointed defence at the moment.

Im not sure if this is down to AVB not knowing his greatest defence yet or due to his rotation system. I have personally never been a fan of rotation especially defence because they need to develop a relationship.

Me neither, the spine of the team should be kept the same as much as possible. Keeper, 2 CB`s, 2 of the midfielders and the point striker of the 3.

With the torres not getting to the ball the defender done well imho. But ash delayed his crosses all afternoon. This is why I rate Bertrand highly as he can cross the ball where I dont find ash's crossing ability very good tbh. Walcott also took him to town and this is happening too often. I hope Bertrand can be introduced soon so he is ready to take ash's place.

Ash appears to not have the confidence in his pace defending against quick attackers like you did a couple of years ago. He was culpable for the first goal in standing two yards behind the defensive line when the ball was played, only minutes after he had got away with the same mistake.Bertrand really needs to be given more game time as maybe the third substituition when matches are won to let him ease into the role.Ash's boots will be a difficult pair to fit into.

Me neither, the spine of the team should be kept the same as much as possible. Keeper, 2 CB`s, 2 of the midfielders and the point striker of the 3.

Totally agree with this , stable backline knows exactly when to move up, drop off and have confidence in each other. Not really sure why the need to rotate them , players 30 yrs ago played week in week out on far worse pitches and were more likely to cop the odd bad challenge but still manage 60 plus games aseason.