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Curbishley bitter and (not) listed for anything special


Dorset

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Oops. Anybody else think that Alan Curbishley let his credibility guard down all too easily after Saturday’s game? Managerial credibility to be more accurate and potential England managerial credibility to be absolutely precise. I refer to his sour grape comment on Avram Grant’s brief, but successful, tenure at Chelsea. Entering the debate on our manager’s effectiveness and supposedly in response to Avram’s dislike of the Hammer’s physical approach Curbs, as he is cutely nicknamed, weighed in with the following:-

“He’s been put in a position where he’s got a big club on his hands, so perhaps he feels he has to make some big, big statements. I don’t think he’s changed too much, he just said get on with it. I think he’s come in and done what Gary Megson’s done.â€

At this point in the interview some guy called Chippy, meat cleaver in hand, had to be restrained by stewards and removed from the building, but apart from him and yours truly in this afterthought of a thread, reaction to the damning verdict went out on the Media unchallenged and supported by the usual cheerleaders on Sky, of which there are many, and assorted members of Gary Megson’s fan club, of which there are few.

Now Shed Enders will know that I’m not quite as chipper as Chippy when it comes to wholehearted support for our new man in charge at the moment, but I am ready and willing to be convinced of his talents and statements like Curbishley’s effort above show that his appointment has had a disturbing effect on some individuals who, for some unknown reason, think they are more qualified to do the job than he is. In short, that quote wreaks of bitterness, not only borne of defeat on Saturday, but also of jealousy and here are a few game related reasons why an irksome Curbs felt obliged to make it all too obvious he thinks Avram’s a lucky sod…

1. Armed with a very basic game plan of chasing down every Chelsea player in possession and then going just that little bit further in the tackle than is usually allowed (taking due note that Howard Webb’s the ref and he’ll let the first three or four go before issuing any yellows), he clearly felt miffed that the sheer brilliance of the strategy had been thwarted by only a single goal.

2. Even more galling was the fact that Mikel was duly and intentionally hounded to the point of retaliation and, just when Webb was needed to take a firm hand on a red card, the b*****d in black bottled it. Didn’t he know he was only supposed to take leniency so far?

3. Then, to cap it all, he [Grant] is not content to win respectfully. Oh no, he has to have a go at West Ham’s style of play which, as we know since the arrival of Curbishley, has become a mirror image of the footballing academy it once was in the Sixties - no doubt the current lone striker and five strung across midfield are but a figment of most fans’ imagination.

Still, the good news for England is, as shown by his own surly utterances and demeanour, Alan Curbishley knows that that particular managerial race is well and truly run, as is the race of the tactically likeminded Big Sam. It seems all that’s left is the jealous sniping of someone who should know better and who should be grateful he has at least cottoned on to a club that is seemingly happy to cast aside its football tradition in search of mid-table obscurity. In contrast, Avram’s some way up the Premiership track in front of him, unworthy, unqualified and unabashed. Don’t you just hate it when that happens, eh Curbs?

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I have to agree and other's have in the match thread, Saturdays performance was very Mourhino-esq, as was the win at Derby.

The players attitude/mentality, pre kick-off high 5's were all installed by Jose. It's only when this side breaks up in the summer will we really see what Grant (or whoever signs the players) holds in store.

Curb's has found a big enough club of his own, with a decent squad. Saying that I can fully understand how someone with over 10 years top flight experience can be bitter towards someone without their coaching badge taking charge of one of the countries biggest clubs, however the Bolton comparison should be directed to his own side who followed the tactics employed by Megsons side at Old Trafford last weekend.

Good post as ever Dorset.

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Good post as often is the case Dorset,

regardless of coaching badges and experience I know if Curbs had taken over as our manager I would not have the faith I have in Grant.

I wouldn't Heckel him either and dig him out over everything from his religion to his choice of Track suit, and I would hope he done well,

but I would be worried.

His quotes before and after stink of sour grapes but then football does seem to bring out the worst in people.

Nobody can say without sounding a bit ridiculas (IMO) that Grants not at least doing a decent Job so far, some might be generous enough to say a good Job.

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Nobody can say without sounding a bit ridiculas (IMO) that Grants not at least doing a decent Job so far, some might be generous enough to say a good Job.

I keep saying this, but I guess it bears repeating one more time:

I am not saying that Grant is doing a bad job. I am more than pleased with the results since he has taken over.

I am challenging your assertion that we are in any way improved under Grant or that we needed to make the change in the first place. I didn't have a problem with how we used to play just as I don't have a problem with us playing the same way now.

Abramovich upset the apple cart because he wanted "sexy" football. When Grant delivers it then I will consider him to be a success in those terms. If he doesn't achieve it, but we still win the Pl or CL then I will consider him a success in my own terms. If he manages both then I'll be f**king amazed - and that's not a dig at him, just a recognition of the fact that Roman wants his cake and eat it and the real world doesn't often work like that.

As for my attitude towards him more generally, I think it unlikely that I will ever take to him as I did to Claudio or Jose. He doesn't seems the inspiring sort!

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Nobody can say without sounding a bit ridiculas (IMO) that Grants not at least doing a decent Job so far, some might be generous enough to say a good Job.

I keep saying this, but I guess it bears repeating one more time:

I am not saying that Grant is doing a bad job. I am more than pleased with the results since he has taken over.

You couldn't in all seriousness say he's doing a bad job could you?

I am challenging your assertion that we are in any way improved under Grant or that we needed to make the change in the first place. I didn't have a problem with how we used to play just as I don't have a problem with us playing the same way now.

lets get it right first...again,

You can challenge my assertion that we are improved and I will answer with ..in my opinion we have shown passages of play that is more appealing and more attack minded, we are getting the fullbacks forward further and more often and we are playing on occasion slicker quicker passing with less of the type of play we happened to score from on Saturday.

what you should not challenge though is that my opinion was we needed the change in the first place, look back through my posts and see if I ever said in any way Mourinho should go,

I never did but that is not to say I agreed with everything he did, I didn't and wont with Grant but I supported him and will support Grant.

I as I have said think that the Football we played was secondary to why Jose had to go and more a personality clash of two men with large ego's, this may be wrong but whatever the reason Grant is now the Manager and I like what he says he intends to do and believe I have seen (although he has had but two months and no new players) a slight lean to what he is trying to achieve.

Abramovich upset the apple cart because he wanted "sexy" football. When Grant delivers it then I will consider him to be a success in those terms.

Sexy Football to me is a term for something that is aspired to rather than mastered, it will always depend on how well the opposition reacts to and deals with the events in the game as to how sexy/entertaining it gets,

If they shut down quickly or/and physically dominate then it is going to be difficult, if they stand off and give us time on the Ball it is obviously going to be more likely, the main thing for me here is..If we get the chance and are controlling the game then play, dont just strangle them into submission, Entertain.

If however we have to dig deep and grind out results that to me is fine but should be a gameplan motivated by events on the field and not fear of conceding.

If he doesn't achieve it, but we still win the Pl or CL then I will consider him a success in my own terms. If he manages both then I'll be f*****g amazed - and that's not a dig at him, just a recognition of the fact that Roman wants his cake and eat it and the real world doesn't often work like that.

Agreed but achieving it is hard to judge, it will not happen every game and the attitude that if possible we will try and entertain is the one that I would be happy with, if it happens once or twice every 7 games and we grind out decent results in others I will be over the moon.

Arsenal are playing good stuff, ok they have not won much lately but are far better this term than last and win or lose silverware this season they have entertained, Barca nearly always look entertaining, why cant we?

As for my attitude towards him more generally, I think it unlikely that I will ever take to him as I did to Claudio or Jose. He doesn't seems the inspiring sort!

I am not asking you to like him as a person, his Job is to inspire the players first and foremost , I find it odd how people get so attatched to personalities they will never even talk to so what does that matter? How can you really judge a mans personality by a snippet in a TV interview or a newspaper article?

If he does the Job for the team we support and you or I never send him a Christmas Card will it take the shine off it for you? it wont for me. AvThat.gif

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I know if Curbs had taken over as our manager I would not have the faith I have in Grant.

Why not?

The difference between Grant taking over and Curbishley taking over to me is with Grant I had no idea of his style of play or ability, with Curbishley I have watched his Managerial Career for quite sometime (My late Father being a huge Charlton Fan) and dont think he is the right man for an ambitious team, OK in a team trying to avoid relegation but rarelyhave I seen anything from his teams that entertains me bar when they nick the odd point from our rivals.

Good question although not one I would expect many to need to ask icon_lol.gif

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Just wondered why you have so much faith in a man you know very little about.

Grants 'style of play' has been reported as 4-5-1 while in Israel, defensive with one up front.

Just goes to show how your 'style of play' or overall football philosophy can change depending on what club you're in charge of.

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Just wondered why you have so much faith in a man you know very little about.

as I said, I wouldn't have chosen Avi as I knew nothing about him, once he got the Job I thought..Right he's in..hope he can do well, since he's been in charge though I have been impressed at the way he has quietly got the Job done while letting the fans know what his intended style of play is,

my defending of Grant up to now has not been so much out of faith, more I would say out of fairness.

results since speak for themselves and have been better than I would have imagined they would up to now.

Grants 'style of play' has been reported as 4-5-1 while in Israel, defensive with one up front.

decent managers can and have to play different styles and formations, he has stated his intended style and with Ten Cate helping in the Coaching side I have even more faith that he means to strive to keep to his word.

Just goes to show how your 'style of play' or overall football philosophy can change depending on what club you're in charge of.

That would (IMO) go without saying, not just what club you're in charge of but what players are or become available.

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Nobody can say without sounding a bit ridiculas (IMO) that Grants not at least doing a decent Job so far, some might be generous enough to say a good Job.

I keep saying this, but I guess it bears repeating one more time:

I am not saying that Grant is doing a bad job. I am more than pleased with the results since he has taken over.

You couldn't in all seriousness say he's doing a bad job could you?

I am challenging your assertion that we are in any way improved under Grant or that we needed to make the change in the first place. I didn't have a problem with how we used to play just as I don't have a problem with us playing the same way now.

lets get it right first...again,

You can challenge my assertion that we are improved and I will answer with ..in my opinion we have shown passages of play that is more appealing and more attack minded, we are getting the fullbacks forward further and more often and we are playing on occasion slicker quicker passing with less of the type of play we happened to score from on Saturday.

what you should not challenge though is that my opinion was we needed the change in the first place, look back through my posts and see if I ever said in any way Mourinho should go,

I never did but that is not to say I agreed with everything he did, I didn't and wont with Grant but I supported him and will support Grant.

I as I have said think that the Football we played was secondary to why Jose had to go and more a personality clash of two men with large ego's, this may be wrong but whatever the reason Grant is now the Manager and I like what he says he intends to do and believe I have seen (although he has had but two months and no new players) a slight lean to what he is trying to achieve.

Abramovich upset the apple cart because he wanted "sexy" football. When Grant delivers it then I will consider him to be a success in those terms.

Sexy Football to me is a term for something that is aspired to rather than mastered, it will always depend on how well the opposition reacts to and deals with the events in the game as to how sexy/entertaining it gets,

If they shut down quickly or/and physically dominate then it is going to be difficult, if they stand off and give us time on the Ball it is obviously going to be more likely, the main thing for me here is..If we get the chance and are controlling the game then play, dont just strangle them into submission, Entertain.

If however we have to dig deep and grind out results that to me is fine but should be a gameplan motivated by events on the field and not fear of conceding.

If he doesn't achieve it, but we still win the Pl or CL then I will consider him a success in my own terms. If he manages both then I'll be f*****g amazed - and that's not a dig at him, just a recognition of the fact that Roman wants his cake and eat it and the real world doesn't often work like that.

Agreed but achieving it is hard to judge, it will not happen every game and the attitude that if possible we will try and entertain is the one that I would be happy with, if it happens once or twice every 7 games and we grind out decent results in others I will be over the moon.

Arsenal are playing good stuff, ok they have not won much lately but are far better this term than last and win or lose silverware this season they have entertained, Barca nearly always look entertaining, why cant we?

As for my attitude towards him more generally, I think it unlikely that I will ever take to him as I did to Claudio or Jose. He doesn't seems the inspiring sort!

I am not asking you to like him as a person, his Job is to inspire the players first and foremost , I find it odd how people get so attatched to personalities they will never even talk to so what does that matter? How can you really judge a mans personality by a snippet in a TV interview or a newspaper article?

If he does the Job for the team we support and you or I never send him a Christmas Card will it take the shine off it for you? it wont for me. AvThat.gif

I started a reply to all of that but in the end decided that life's too short icon_eek.gif

You clearly have the perception that under Mourinho we never played any passing football, never entertained and were "long ball" merchants who only ever won 1-0. If that's how you remember it then I can't change it, but it's just not true.

What I find really hard to understand is how you can be so positive about things now when nothing much has changed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking results here. Those are fine. But then they were always fine. I mean, you were bored to tears by the pre Grant team but really quite excited by the all new Grant style. Whereas I would find it hard to get a cigarette paper between the two.

If Grant is to earn respect he needs to show something more than just maintaining the status quo. He needs to avoid talking down his predecessor and talking up how he has transformed us. If his ticket is exciting, flowing football - as the heart of what his team is about, rather than just the odd game when the opponents make it easy - then that's what he should be judged against. I accept that it will take time and I am not knocking him for not having already achieved it. But equally I am not praising him either.

We shall see in time how it pans out - I am just not so confident as you seem to be.

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Given the quality of our squad, perhaps curbishley feels that HE might aspire to finish in the top 4 playing some good stuff rather than battling against relegation. I know i would.

I have to agree that Grant has'nt changed alot(yet) although i will concede that its early days. The only person who thinks our style of play has changed under Grant appears to be Grant. I think Curbs got it right when he said the biggest difference between us now and us at the start of the season is the return of JT,DD and Lamps.

The most pleasing thing for me on saturday was the fact that having got the goal Grant appears to have learned his lesson from the Everton game and shut up shop. Most on here have been saying that these are lessons he should'nt be learning at a top club trying to win the league(agreed) and when you consider that shutting up shop is the work of the devil aka JM its surprising he did it. Perhaps he has realised that to be Champions sometimes you have to win ugly, but we already new this.

It seems strange as well that its now considered OK to play the beautiful game once every 7 matches and grind out wins in the other games, something that we did under JM anyway. Well Grant would tell we ground them out under JM where i'd say we won them comfortably. Because under JM we looked far more solid and assured at the back in those other games than we did at any time on saturday, and that against a team who could hardly muster a shot on goal.

Grant is our new manager and the team will always have my full support but i wont listen to anybody TELLING me we are playing any different, or that our football is in anyway more entertaining, at the moment. Seeing is believing and i hav'nt seen it YET, but once again it will take time. Our goal came from a long punt the weekend and there is nothing wrong with that, you have to have variety in your play something stressed by JM.

You also have to understand that within the game JM contrary to popular belief was well liked, and other managers probably do feel that Grant is a very lucky man.He probably has'nt endeared himself with other managers either by constantly belittleing JM's style and achievements since taking the job. He can talk all he likes about having 30yrs experience but that does'nt mean alot when talking about big jobs at big clubs, otherwise Dario Grady would have got the Barcalona job ahead of Rijkaard.

The reason Curbs said what he did was probably down to sour grapes and jealousy, but IMO that does'nt mean that everything he said was'nt true.

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Ethical Strategy

wrote

I started a reply to all of that but in the end decided that life's too short icon_eek.gif

You clearly have the perception that under Mourinho we never played any passing football, never entertained and were "long ball" merchants who only ever won 1-0. If that's how you remember it then I can't change it, but it's just not true.

Thats not how I remember it and as I have said some, a lot of games under Jose entertained me, the thing is the first season being better than last and generally I felt the entertainment was dwindling and the strangle the life out of the game style had although effective been a little bit found out by other teams, that said Jose was still here and I still supported him,

he is gone now and the argument here is if Grant is good enough or not.

What I find really hard to understand is how you can be so positive about things now when nothing much has changed.

Dont you think I explained that in my last 200 posts? read my reply to Bluenut above for my feelings on this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking results here. Those are fine. But then they were always fine. I mean, you were bored to tears by the pre Grant team but really quite excited by the all new Grant style. Whereas I would find it hard to get a cigarette paper between the two.

The pre Grant team is the same basic team we have now, the differnce over a couple of months will be fag paper thin, but they are their for most to see, Grant has stated his intentions in how he wants us to play and I believe he is trying to back his statemets up, Jose however had three years knowing Roman wanted more entertainment and (IMO) the team was less entertaining at the end of his reign.

If Grant is to earn respect he needs to show something more than just maintaining the status quo. He needs to avoid talking down his predecessor and talking up how he has transformed us. If his ticket is exciting, flowing football - as the heart of what his team is about, rather than just the odd game when the opponents make it easy - then that's what he should be judged against. I accept that it will take time and I am not knocking him for not having already achieved it. But equally I am not praising him either.

I think a person should be respected until he gives good reason to be disrespected, Grant has done enough to earn respect and Taking down his predecessor is a huge exaggeration, He has said the team can entertain more and he has said he thinks they have already shown this in patches, spot on (IMO),

This part "rather than just the odd game when the opponents make it easy"is another no win situation as the couple of times we have shined under Grant the opposition has been belittled as being useless on the day as will happen everytime we play well,

no team is going to go out and win 6-0 against a team thats playing well on the day, the game is dictated by events on the field and if as in the Man City game everything starts to go right sometimes this forces the other team into mistakes, we could have played better or worse and the result could have been the same had city also played better or worse.

If then you expect as anybody would that it will take time, why after two months are you not just saying..well Grants still doing ok, that'll do for me, hope he keeps it up?

why keep on about him disrespecting his predecessor as if Jose would never say anything remotely disrespectful about anybody (including his own players),

these people are football managers, they are not great democrats, they have to put themselves out there and show they are leaders in their own right, to say what Grant says about the style we played and what he intends to have us playing is in nbo way disrepectful (IMO)

We shall see in time how it pans out - I am just not so confident as you seem to be.

Again I reiterate, I am growing in confidence as Grant has now gone a touch further (IMO) than steadying the ship, he has Got great results from a supposedly pretty upset team (losing a Mnager they all loved) and he has not shown any signs whatsoever of being the yes man people said he would be, Sheva anyone?

I have not got a supreme confidence in the man I am just more confident now than when he took over when my defense of him was just out of fairness, now I defend him because he has given me some confidence in his ability to do what Roman believes he can do and what he believes he can do,

With Ten Cate joining Avi and Steve I am quite happy with the set up.

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Given the quality of our squad, perhaps curbishley feels that HE might aspire to finish in the top 4 playing some good stuff rather than battling against relegation. I know i would.

I doubt Curbishley could to be honest but again thats just a difference of opinions

I have to agree that Grant has'nt changed alot(yet) although i will concede that its early days. The only person who thinks our style of play has changed under Grant appears to be Grant. I think Curbs got it right when he said the biggest difference between us now and us at the start of the season is the return of JT,DD and Lamps.

There has been quite a few people who have seen a change be it only slight and quite a few who have not, the reasons you stated seem a bit over simplyfied to me.

The most pleasing thing for me on saturday was the fact that having got the goal Grant appears to have learned his lesson from the Everton game and shut up shop. Most on here have been saying that these are lessons he should'nt be learning at a top club trying to win the league(agreed) and when you consider that shutting up shop is the work of the devil aka JM its surprising he did it. Perhaps he has realised that to be Champions sometimes you have to win ugly,

as I have said , to me the Everton game was chalk and cheese from the West Ham game and not shutting up shop against a team who have not threatened our goal once in 90 minutes is a bit different from when we have had at least ten attempts on goal and would be tempting with a new manager out to prove the doubters wrong, a mistake in hindsight yes as it went on the day but against West Ham they looked a bit more dangerous with CC playing well and then Ashton came on, we still attacked when Grant brought on Maka but he did see the danger.

but we already new this.

It seems strange as well that its now considered OK to play the beautiful game once every 7 matches and grind out wins in the other games, something that we did under JM anyway. Well Grant would tell we ground them out under JM where i'd say we won them comfortably. Because under JM we looked far more solid and assured at the back in those other games than we did at any time on saturday, and that against a team who could hardly muster a shot on goal.

We never played defensively Saturday so yes Jose's team would have looked more solid, I would concider it better than ok to play the beautiful game once (or twice) in 7 matches if our intention was to entertain when we got the chance,

Grant is our new manager and the team will always have my full support but i wont listen to anybody TELLING me we are playing any different, or that our football is in anyway more entertaining, at the moment. Seeing is believing and i hav'nt seen it YET, but once again it will take time. Our goal came from a long punt the weekend and there is nothing wrong with that, you have to have variety in your play something stressed by JM.

I am not asking you to listen to me about our play being different, I think it is but we all see things differnt,

I think variety is something every manager knows you need in your play and not a Jose trait that has been inherited,

You also have to understand that within the game JM contrary to popular belief was well liked, and other managers probably do feel that Grant is a very lucky man.

I bet they do, Managing Chelsea is a top Job and people like Curbishley seem to make more derogatory comments than people like Fergie and Wenger, Jealousy I would put it down to but again we all see things different.

He probably has'nt endeared himself with other managers either by constantly belittleing JM's style and achievements since taking the job.

Yeah I bet Rafa is gutted, seriously I dont think he has belittled anyone.

He can talk all he likes about having 30yrs experience but that does'nt mean alot when talking about big jobs at big clubs, otherwise Dario Grady would have got the Barcalona job ahead of Rijkaard.

Where was all Rijkaards experience that got him the Dutch national Job? two years in that then relegation in charge of Sparta Rotterdam, then he was suprisingly given the Barca Job, done ok since though icon_lol.gif

The reason Curbs said what he did was probably down to sour grapes and jealousy, but IMO that does'nt mean that everything he said was'nt true.

some things he said may have had some truth in them but then football is all about opinions in print and results on the pitch, Curbs could be a champion with his words.

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Jose was not sacked due to lack of entertainment, Avram was not hired to provide it.

It the clubs 'party-line' and I don't buy any of it.

Roman has taken a massive gamble and you have to wonder what it is about AG that led RA to do so. It's possibly one of the biggest management gambles in the history of the Premiership and it's still quite hard to fathom.

Time will tell, but entertainment is a smoke screen, especially from someone who's previous formations were regularly 4-5-1.

Look as hard as you like to see the 'minor' changes once every 7 games. Apart from Joe Cole playing with more freedom I see no real changes, and if I was Grant I wouldn't make too many because he has inhertied a winning formula and would be a fool to disperse it.

We scored from a direct from a keepers clearance on Sat. The week before we won 2-0 away to whipping boys Derby and the week before we scored 1 goal at home to Everton - from a set-piece corner. Oozing style and entertaining?

4-3-3 with no Ballack and no Shevchenko.....I know another bloke who had 2 sucessful, league winning years playing like that! icon_wink.gif

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Jose was not sacked due to lack of entertainment, Avram was not hired to provide it.

Agree with the first part mostly, not the second,

It the clubs 'party-line' and I don't buy any of it.

in my opinion Roman is not worried about a party line and genuinely thinks Avram is the man for the Job,

Roman has taken a massive gamble and you have to wonder what it is about AG that led RA to do so. It's possibly one of the biggest management gambles in the history of the Premiership and it's still quite hard to fathom.

It is hard to fathom from a fans point of view, From Romans point of view though, being able to take into account to opinions from people in the game and having first hand knowledge of Avram as a person and as an employee I think his gamble was was probobly well thought out,

Time will tell, but entertainment is a smoke screen, especially from someone who's previous formations were regularly 4-5-1.

His previous formations were for getting the best out of the players he had at his disposal in the Job he was doing then, the players he has now and hopefully any he brings in are and will be a higher calibre with more technical ability,

Look as hard as you like to see the 'minor' changes once every 7 games. Apart from Joe Cole playing with more freedom I see no real changes, and if I was Grant I wouldn't make too many because he has inhertied a winning formula and would be a fool to disperse it.

I have seen minor changes in almost every game, I said I would be happy with entertainment overload once or twice in 7 games and I didn't mean it to be underlined as if it would be the norm,

the formula was looking a bit stale (IMO) and grant has got to do more than say good luck boys to keep them in any sort of run let alone the type of run we have had since he took over (IMO)

4-3-3 with no Ballack and no Shevchenko.....I know another bloke who had 2 sucessful, league winning years playing like that! icon_wink.gif

Formation and style are two different things, yes we have played 4-3-3 so have most teams from time to time that doesn't mean Jose has a patent on it.

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Chippy your support of Grant is admirable.

He has slated JM though, something he really should'nt have done. He said in an interview the other day that JM's style had become outdated in the last 3yrs since being given the Chelsea job, that counter attacking football was a thing of the past and that we are in a better position now than at the start of the season.

When talking about the most successful manager on the planet over the last 5/6yrs he really should show more respect. Especially when you consider his achievements or lack of at the highest level.

I dont think he should be constantly saying entertainment and style in every interview he gives either, its bordering on the embarrasing and he's building himself up for a fall. Recent performances and results dont back it up either. It makes me think he's a pretender who knows he's a bit out of his depth and he's trying to kid people into believing he is something he is'nt.

As i said earlier there was encouraging signs against the hammers, and he has steadied the ship but i will still maintain that alot of that is down to the return of our best 3 players more than anything he has done since taking over.

The fact he has left the misfiring Sheva out the team is also encouraging but at the same time enfuriating considering what happend to JM for doing the same.

None of us who have criticised his appointment are over the bridge calling for his head, we have had enough upheavel already for one season.

Having said that I still dont think he is the right man for the job, he does'nt have the experience as i said earlier at the highest level. The reason i mention Rijkaard in the same breath as Dario Grady was to highlight that fact. Its not about how long you have been in the game, or a manager. Its more about what standard you are.

You are right, Rijkaard had very little or even no experience in the hot seat himself before taking a top job. But he had played for many years at the highest level, was very succesful and worked under some of the greatest managers in the world who he obviously learned alot from. Because of this he was able to command the respect of top players the moment he walked into a dressing room.

I dont want to constantly criticise the man because i want the club to do well just like the rest of us. I'm still struggling to understand who on earth thinks its a good idea to replace JM with AG. actions1.gif

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Chippy your support of Grant is admirable.

He has slated JM though, something he really should'nt have done. He said in an interview the other day that JM's style had become outdated in the last 3yrs since being given the Chelsea job, that counter attacking football was a thing of the past and that we are in a better position now than at the start of the season.

I wouldn't call that slating JM, Just stating his opinions, something that Jose would do with impunity...and we all loved him for it icon_wink.gif

When talking about the most successful manager on the planet over the last 5/6yrs he really should show more respect. Especially when you consider his achievements or lack of at the highest level.

See I dont think he's been disrespectful, I agree that our style of play had been "found out" by other teams and thats probobly more what he means than outdated although it adds up to the same thing,

We are in a better position now than when he took over, we are not bottom of our CL group in fact we have won it with a game to spare and the league position is not too bad although it was not too bad then,

See although I thought Jose was great, I dont think of him like some fantasy figure who could do no wrong, Football is a game of opinions and if it's ok to slag off Avram for everthing from his Jowels, his tracksuit, his lack of experience, his bad interview technique, his religion, or his wifes penchant for drinking her own urine the I am sure he should be allowed the odd swipe (if thats what it is) at the ideas that went before his.

I dont think he should be constantly saying entertainment and style in every interview he gives either, its bordering on the embarrasing and he's building himself up for a fall. Recent performances and results dont back it up either. It makes me think he's a pretender who knows he's a bit out of his depth and he's trying to kid people into believing he is something he is'nt.

see again we see things differently,

I like him telling us how he plans to get the team playing, love it that he see's little improvements and tells us that he doe's,

I would be embarresed if after the draw at against Fulham he came out and said that the Eggs we had at Chelsea were not good enough to make a decent omellete, We cant afford to go to Waitrose....people think the interview when he came was a circus, I think the omellette interview with Jose was a Farce, we all see things differently

As i said earlier there was encouraging signs against the hammers, and he has steadied the ship but i will still maintain that alot of that is down to the return of our best 3 players more than anything he has done since taking over.

The fact he has left the misfiring Sheva out the team is also encouraging but at the same time enfuriating considering what happend to JM for doing the same.

There have been more encouraging signs than just the Hammers game and he has done more than steady the Ship (IMO) and if you look back at the results before he came we had our best players for some of the games that we played (IMO) quite badly in.

Leaving Sheva out was not again (IMO) why Jose had to go, we all have different opinions why but I would say there was a lot of reasons and the Sheva situation was more an irritation to Roman than a sacking offence,

I see it that now Avram is in charge I would imagine the relationship with the Manager and Roman is that much better that they can talk about the team affairs without ego's getting in the way and so Roman can understand a bit better.

You say its encouraging that AG has left Sheva out but add its enfuriating at the same time, well there we have again the double edge sword,

How can Avram please everyone? leave Sheva out....Sack him like Jose....Play Sheva....Yes Man......it go's on and on.

None of us who have criticised his appointment are over the bridge calling for his head, we have had enough upheavel already for one season.

Plenty on here give the impression they would like him out, you are right we have had enough upheavel already but that doesn;t mean if he was not the right man he should stay,

Having said that I still dont think he is the right man for the job, he does'nt have the experience as i said earlier at the highest level. The reason i mention Rijkaard in the same breath as Dario Grady was to highlight that fact. Its not about how long you have been in the game, or a manager. Its more about what standard you are.

I think he is the right man for the Job, as he is trying to prove,

He has experience with teams in Israel and with the Israel national team, more experience than Rijkarard had when he took over the Dutch team,

who's to say his standard is lower than Rijkaards?

You are right, Rijkaard had very little or even no experience in the hot seat himself before taking a top job. But he had played for many years at the highest level, was very succesful and worked under some of the greatest managers in the world who he obviously learned alot from. Because of this he was able to command the respect of top players the moment he walked into a dressing room.

Ok so Avram was never a great player before he became a manager....Dejavu anyone? you cant have it both ways canyou?

Jose was never a good player either but being Bobby Robsons Interpreter was enough to get him a Job at a decent Club wwhere he done great things...the rest is history,

much better credentials then icon_rolleyes.gif

I dont want to constantly criticise the man because i want the club to do well just like the rest of us. I'm still struggling to understand who on earth thinks its a good idea to replace JM with AG. actions1.gif

Then why criticise? the man is Chelsea Manager and has got plans that he hopes will help us win games while playing more attractive Football,

he tells us his plans quietly and has two other good coach's helping him put their ideas accross in training, so far the results and performances are to be fair better than we coyuld have expected and had it been Hiddink in charge, a lot of people would be right behind him now as if he was the new messiah.

Loyalty to Jose is fine....he was superb and a great memory as was Zola,

they are both gone now and I support the Team in the same way as when they were here...wholeheartedly. and to me (to me) that means getting behind the manager and even in the bad times giving him a fair period of mediocre results before I get on his back.

we all see things differently though and this is my opinion on it. AvThat.gif

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What are you AG'S agent???

I could do what Grant has done, and i'm just as qualified, i have 30yrs experience in a piss poor league and have never won anything worth winning too(dont tell me he managed Isreal...please). He is a stop gap and that is the only reason the fans suffer him at the moment, so dont get to attached.He got the job because he's the chairmans mate and unless he wins the league this season he will surely be gone in the summer.(he may even get the boot if he does win the league because RA seems to want to run the club like Real Madrid) If he does'nt and is still the manager come the start of next season then the fans will start to give him stick and rightly so.(if he gets that long)

That more than anything that has happend recently will damage the club,worse still the fans will turn on RA and that could make him walk and nobody wants that. Like i said i admire you defence of AG although i cant understand why you seem to like him so much because he has done nothing to warrent it. Your going to say he has done nothing to warrent criticism. I say the fact he is being paid more than Wenger and Fergusen is a complete joke, if RA likes him so much and wants to sort him out why does'nt he just give him a hand out, leave Chelsea out of it.He should replace the top quality manager we had with another one, not one of his mates. Believe me chippy we are one or too bad results away from a complete fan and player revolt. I just hope Grant like you said can keep the ship steady untill the summer and if he's lucky he might nick a trophy along the way.

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So you want Grant to walk because he was given the job by his mate but you don't want his mate to walk for giving his mate the job.

Let me get this straight then.

You think a man has been appointed who is clearly not good enough to do the job and when he fails to do it he should get stick. Surely the man who should get the stick should be the man who appointed him.

If I was given a job as Head of Operations of British Airways would it be my fault that I couldn't do the job or the idiot who gave the job to someone clearly unqualified to do it. I would do my best to do it (which is all you can ask) and any failings would not be down to lack of effort on my part.

Avram is doing his best in the job and so far Jose, or anyone else, would not have been more succesful over the period he has managed for. I judge on what he does whereas you seem to be judging based on preconceptions.

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The only reason i am not giving RA stick at the moment is because i cant believe this his his long term plan for the club. JM leaving when he did could not have been planned so i'm hoping AG is filling the void until the summer like i said. If thats not the case it wont only be me voicing my anger.

If you was given the job at BA, knowing you really should'nt have got it ahead of a list of far better candidates would you make yourself out to be some kind of saviour who was going to transform the club, and in the process criticise your predecessor who just happened to be the most successful person BA had ever had in that job?

I dont think AG is doing anything other that the very least expected with what he has at his disposal. In fact we have dropped points that we should'nt have dropped at home to Fulham and Everton. The only credit i give him is the fact its difficult to come in mid season, especially with the bond the players had with JM so in that respect he has as been said done well to steady the ship.

Other than that IMO anybody who thinks AG should be Chelsea manager and earn more than Fergie or Wenger needs their heads tested.

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What are you AG'S agent???

I wish

I could do what Grant has done,

See how you believe in yourself?

Yet Grant with 30 years experience and experience at National level should not believe in himself?

and i'm just as qualified, i have 30yrs experience in a piss poor league and have never won anything worth winning too(dont tell me he managed Isreal...please). He is a stop gap and that is the only reason the fans suffer him at the moment,

Why do you state things as fact that you have no more idea about than anyone else? (imo) he is more than a stop gap although if you turn out to be right, I am glad to give him my support while he's here and think he's doing a good Job.

so dont get to attached.

I dont get attatched to people I dont know, I support them if they are at the Club I support and I would think it unfair if he was to be replaced but as far as getting attatched I save that for Family and friends,

I dont know Grant any better than you know him or knew Jose so why would I get attatched?

He got the job because he's the chairmans mate and unless he wins the league this season he will surely be gone in the summer.(he may even get the boot if he does win the league because RA seems to want to run the club like Real Madrid) If he does'nt and is still the manager come the start of next season then the fans will start to give him stick and rightly so.(if he gets that long)

Again you make statements as if they are fact, I would counter that to be the chairmans mate would at least require being able to speak the same language, bet they have some right laughs through the interprtor icon_lol.gif

You ignore the answers I have given about why a man like Roman would not just put a mate in charge of the club and (IMO) you underestimate both men.

I doubt he would get the boot if he won the league and doubt he will if he makes a decent challenge in most competitions, we shall see,

Because Roman is attracted to a few proven world class players is not to say he wants the club to be run like Real Madrid (IMO),

You think the fans will start to give him stick if he wins nothing this term, I think that depends on the circumstances and the way we play on the way,

That more than anything that has happend recently will damage the club,worse still the fans will turn on RA and that could make him walk and nobody wants that.

I would like to think the fans have more sense than to turn on Roman as he is trying to build a winning team that plays entertaining football and he's backing it with his wallet,

Like i said i admire you defence of AG although i cant understand why you seem to like him so much because he has done nothing to warrent it. Your going to say he has done nothing to warrent criticism.

As I have said my defence of Avram started out of fairness, it has carried on the same but got stronger as I see Roman has made a good choice (again in my opinion) true though he has done nothing to warrent critisism.

I say the fact he is being paid more than Wenger and Fergusen is a complete joke,

He Manages Chelsea, Chelsea players are on higher wages than most, that again is up to RA and if he thinks Grant is worth that money then I would trust his opinion over yours, the man is not as loaded as he is because he gives his mates handouts.

Your comparison is as relevent as saying why is a four Bedroom house in Surrey five hundred grand but in Manchester its two hundred.

if RA likes him so much and wants to sort him out why does'nt he just give him a hand out, leave Chelsea out of it.He should replace the top quality manager we had with another one, not one of his mates.

I would say its because he sees Grant as a top quality Manager and believes as I am starting to that he is the right man for the Job.

Believe me chippy we are one or too bad results away from a complete fan and player revolt.

I think there are fans who would kick up if we had a couple of bad results, the same fans who would ignore circumstances and imagine that Jose with the same players would have done better in the same situation,

There are also plenty of fans that will be prepared to ride it out while getting behind the team and Manager until circumstances change and he gets it right.

I just hope Grant like you said can keep the ship steady untill the summer and if he's lucky he might nick a trophy along the way.

I said Grant had done more than steady the ship and if we win a trophy I would imagine it will be on merit and we wont have nicked it,

You keep arguing and giving me Comparisons from Rijkaard and Ogrady to Grant was never a good footballer yet when I explain the reasons why these arguments dont stand up (IMO) instead of saying (oh yeah thats a point) you go back to the old Chairmans mate stuff,

Mate we've had all this and its stale, why dont we just hope he keeps going well and get behind him and the team in the unique luxury of knowing that should Roman have got the wrong man, (which I doubt more and more) then he will put his money where his mouth is and replace him,

Should he see that he has got the right man (as looks highly possible imo) then he will back him and chase his dream of getting Chelsea to the very top while playing good stuff to watch. AvThat.gif

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Roman as he is trying to build a winning team that plays entertaining football and he's backing it with his wallet,

Why not buy a center half in January last season then??

Playing Liverpool with Essien and Ferrier effectively cost us the title.

The manager says he wants a player in a position we have absolutely NO COVER, the chairman doesn't back him 300.gif

A petty squabble with the manager and failure to back him was certainly not what was best for this football club at that time.

Roman might be one of the richest men on the planet but he didn't earn his money in football and doesn't know how to run a football club.

Acute business acumen does not qualify you as an expert on football related matters no matter how good some people think your judgement is.

Cutting you nose of to spite your face is not good judgement, weither in business or football!

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Roman as he is trying to build a winning team that plays entertaining football and he's backing it with his wallet,

Why not buy a center half in January last season then??

I am not inside his head and he is as only learning in this game, he obviously has advisors and people he trusts and for a reason unknown to me, or you, he never made funds available (supposedly)

Playing Liverpool with Essien and Ferrier effectively cost us the title.

it never helped but a lot of results and the re emergence of UTD also had an effect.

The manager says he wants a player in a position we have absolutely NO COVER, the chairman doesn't back him 300.gif

Did he not back him? did he have other ideas and the two could not agree ?, I dont know and doubt you do either

A petty squabble with the manager and failure to back him was certainly not what was best for this football club at that time.

I don't know and doubt again that you do if the squabble was petty or if indeed it was the squabble that stopped the appointment of back up and I am not here to justify everything that has happened at the Club, just to say being fair and looking at results Avram is doing a good Job and Roman is trying to make the Club better, these are my beliefs and not that niether man has never done a wrong deed or thought a bad thought. icon_rolleyes.gif

Roman might be one of the richest men on the planet but he didn't earn his money in football and doesn't know how to run a football club.

You however obviously think you know better than a man you have never met and dont really know what knowledge he has about anything, It's very easy to guess but I believe he knows enough people in the game to seek out knowledgable advice before he takes most of his gambles.

Acute business acumen does not qualify you as an expert on football related matters no matter how good some people think your judgement is.

Then what does? what would qualify you to believe you know better than Roman? you could ask me what qualifies me to counter your argument but before you do I will say I am defending what I can see, every statement (almost) that I make is either what I have seen or what is widely accepted as fact (Unless I have added IMO)

you however prefer to judge people on what you percieve their personality traits or lack of abilities which have not been seen, only guessed at,

I am not saying Roman is right because I believe he is an expert on Football, I believe he would not take risks that he had not thought long and hard about and taken advice from people in the game that he trusts, this is my gut feeling and I am not stating it as fact just as an alternative to the ones that make it seem like he cares nothing about the money he wastes on Managers/players that are not up to the Job.

Cutting you nose of to spite your face is not good judgement, weither in business or football!

I would think Roman knows more about Business and has probobly done more business deals in one day than you or I will do in a lifetime,

I think all the idioms like cutting off your nose to spite your face would be wasted on a man who has learned when to and when not to a million times over (this is me guessing now icon_lol.gif )

If Grant had have come in and F**ked up straight away I could imagine your animosity towards him but I feel the man has done enough for everyone to sit back and say..lets watch and see then how he go's until the end of the season, then when the footballs finished weigh it up and get on here and either give him credit for what he's done or slag him off some more,

that would give everyone a much better idea of his abilities and of what direction we are going in with players , style, etc.

AvThat.gif I love this Smiley

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