heckel

Time to admit we got it wrong all those years ago, just? Claudio laughing at the top of the league with no resources, makes me ponder on the great chelsea dynasty that could have been, and which Jose robbed from the great CR. Come home Clownio!

Good Sun-style thread heading. It hurts to see him in red; if he had unfavourably compared chelsea fans to liverpool fans I could see the problem, but he's hardly a Poyet.

my bet is on iniesta.

Essien, only because I'm so f'ing happy he's back

difference between Chelsea in 2003 and Man City in 2009 can be summed up in two words: Lampard, Terry. We already had the two outstanding England players and all it took was to get the quality of the squad up to their level and we could challenge (which we did before Mourinho came in. ManCity are still nowhere near Chelsea under Ranieri 03-04). Man City proves that we did not 'buy' the league from scratch, but boosted an outstanding core.

"Ancelotti's side have now scored 21 goals in their past three home league games."

What a start! Speechless...

Totally. Although I'd certainly think it would be in the FA's interest to schedule a winter break in world cup years because overall I would say that Italian/Spanish based players have better fitness in the summer, not to mention the Bundersliga, which I believe has the longest break of all of them.

The ball was a f**king shocker. Other than that, I would say that the major problem is that more or less all the game-changing players were completely knackered by the time the tournament started. Kudos to all the Barca and Inter players in the final who maintained their fitness whilst going all the way in three cup competitions on top of their league commitments. True athletes (ahem England). Other than Spain's historic breakthrough win, I will forget this tournament as soon as I go to sleep (in 5 minutes).

The De Jong decision was wrong. I think a case can be made either way for the other decisions. Overall I think Webb did well, given the Dutch in particular were playing chicken with him the entire game. I think those targeting the refereeing are missing the big picture. Which is... Spain DO play magnificent football. Sorry to partake in the 'w**kfest', but they are clearly the world's best footballing team. They didn't play at the level of 2008, but in a tournament in which every fancied team bar Germany and Holland played well below their potential they are more than worthy winners. They controlled matches, they took their chances and they will be national heroes for a long time to come. Many many congratulations to Del Bosques men. I salute Spain!!

1) needs to play the best team for the job and not the most renowned star players. 2) practice a f**k load of set pieces. 3) good fitness coach 4) devil-may-care attitude in relation to players/media/nation's FA 5) fluency in the mother-tongue 6) read the writing on the wall in games, and CHANGE the formation if it's not going well. No second chances.

I hear you Westway. The pro-Jose argument is probably stronger than the anti-Jose one. I think just's post earlier in this thread says it all. I have my own reasons for not necessarily giving him the kind of adoration that a lot did/do, but I'm really ready to let this one go.

Well the results are well and truly in. Jose has shown that he's on a different level as a modern football manager. He won us our first title for fifty years, and now Inter their first European Cup in 45 years. I wonder if Inter fans are having the same debates as the ones we've been having. Do they care if their team is a medium for Jose's record career (ruthlessly displayed by his immediate transfer)? Are they grateful that he is the man who could do the job and restore them to European glory? Probably the second. Either way, I've done my dash with criticising Mourinho. He is what he is. I hate Real Madrid, so I won't be wishing him luck, but I won't begrudge him his inevitable success.

It was a great pleasure reading Star's and Geezer's posts, which showed just how important this club is to people's lives over time. The Bates and Abramovich's come and go, and same goes for players (even our beloved Zola, who I can't help feel has somewhat broken with the spirit of the club after his West Ham adventure). But the supporter's are the club. For me this season has been a new departure. Moving to the UK near the start of the Abramovich era I felt a bit let down because the kind of club and atmosphere I'd hoped to join was transformed into this bling outfit which was attracting all manner of superficial fans (and players). I'd intended to be a regular attendee at SB (a reason for choosing to come over), but I've been a bit reluctant for fear of being just another international band-wagon fan (and also lack of cash). As just pointed out to me, I probably missed the true significance of those Jose titles because I hadn't really lived through the bad times so didn't properly appreciate the satisfaction of breaking through and WINNING. But the bling years are now over. This was a title won by a mature squad who have longterm relations with the supporters and the club, with only one new squad member. Looking at the photos on Gem's thread I think there's a difference this season. It's not Jose punching the air because he's shown again he's the 'special one'. It's not some mercenary footballer who's glad he's come to a club that 'wins things' and 'can play champions league football'. It's not supporters vicariously joining in the celebrations of the sugar-daddy's plaything. This title was won by the players for the supporters. And I salute Carlo Ancellotti for being an understated manager who, in my mind, has let the clubness of the team come forward. 8 goals to win the season was a tribute not just to a more fluid football, but a team that wanted to give pleasure to the fans beyond getting a result. The squad needs to go through another transformation, but I'm so happy that the group of '04-'06 has won another title and shown their real dedication and quality. For me this title is really the beginning of my time as a Chelsea supporter (and not fan), and I will be heading to SB whenever I can afford it from here on. I'd be interested to hear from other people, and not just those who have 30+ years of support behind them.

We've done the double on liverpool, arsenal and ManU. Has this been done before? Strangely letargic performance, but I'm grinning from ear to ear. If we do it, this will be the most satisfying league win of my time as a supporter.

I have to agree just. In a way I was more certain Inter would get through after the sending-off. Mourinho is the man for nights like to tonight. And he knows it. I'll be cheering Inter for the final.

I think Carlo wants to get early goals, and kalou is on for his pace. I'd be suprised if we haven't scored by half time with Cole and Malouda teaming up again on the left, and Kalou providing an alternative outlet on the right. Let's see how this develops. I'm off to the pub...

Chelsea: Cech, Paulo Ferreira, Ivanovic, Alex, Ashley Cole, Lampard, Ballack, Malouda, Kalou, Drogba, Anelka. Subs: Hilario, Joe Cole, Zhirkov, Sturridge, Belletti, Hutchinson, Van Aanholt. Stoke: Sorensen, Higginbotham, Huth, Abdoulaye Faye, Collins, Delap, Whitehead, Whelan, Etherington, Fuller, Kitson. Subs: Begovic, Lawrence, Beattie, Pugh, Shawcross, Sanli, Wilkinson.

Fair enough, just. If it took a bit of back and forth for you to write that out, then I'm happy to have provided a foil. I'm not a supporter of your generation, commitment, or experience. I'm part of the globalisation of English football that properly got going in the mid 90s. I started with Chelsea as a fourteen year-old around the time Gullit came in and from 10,000 miles away; the time when people like yourself got a taste of success after many barren years. All I can say is hats off to you and others like you on this site. I love reading your posts. Doesn't mean I don't spend far too much of my time watching games, and copping flack from people around me who think that a 'plastic' fan with an Australian accent supporting a 'plastic' team is a complete joke. If I'm to be in the UK in the longterm, which is a possibility, and I have kids here, then I'll raise them as Chelsea supporters. It won't be such a problem for them. I didn't like Jose Mourinho because at times he acted like a ring in. Someone who could get the job done but didn't really care about the club in any serious sense. It was about his 'career'. When his teams win people say things like Jose 1 Barca 0. If he wanted to be part of the club longterm, and to establish a legacy that would make him part of the culture of the club above and beyond short term success then I think he could have conducted himself differently. But I see that is insignificant against what that title meant for you.

You're right to say I have an issue with the way Jose conducts himself. But this isn't the point I'm making. It is that Jose's a flash in the pan manager when it comes to individual clubs. He comes in, gets results, starts making enemies and alienating people, moves on. THe overall narrative becomes not 'will Chelsea win?', or 'will Inter win the CL?', it is 'will Jose win another title?'. He is his own team, and speaks like this too. Not only is this emotionally unsatisfying as a supporter, but it is also ineffective when you compare Jose against managers who have had sustained success at a club. I was as happy as anyone was when Chelsea won two titles, I thank Jose for his service. But I don't have the kind of respect for him that some others on here do.

That's right barak, you don't know what the debate's about, because it's not about whether Jose was instrumental in getting us two titles.

Even if Maka was cycnically trying to get his book noticed, I can't believe that at least Maka himself didn't have a moment of turning against Mourinho. Which is significant in itself. I'm not happy with the way Roman has interfered with the running of the club, but nevertheless it is undeniable that keeping the men at the top happy is part of a manager's job in football. I have no interest in villifying Mourinho beyond what we know from various sources about his time at the club. I'm making the very simple point that those things that make him a winner in the short-term seem to make it hard for him to sustain success at a club.

Hi just- sorry I didn't see this till now. By 'dressing room turning against him' I mean: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...sea-credit.html Say what you like about Fergie and whinger but they've kept on top of their players and maintained good relations with the board. It's still relatively early in Jose's career, but so far he's come unstuck quite quickly at Chelsea, given his success. (Was it Roman's ambition? Was it the dressing room? Was it his combative style? Probably some of each.) And now, before two seasons are up at Inter he's talking about moving back to the PL. That must please his squad, and give them something to aim for longterm. Right? Talent, a killer work ethic and narcissicism may win prizes in the short term, but it doesn't add up to much as far as I'm concerned unless it is sustained success with a club, and long-term relations with the supporters.

Was waiting for this just. If Jose can beat this year's barca, then hats off to him. I've never doubted Jose's ability to win big trophies, and often. But it seems he has problems with sustaining succes at a single club. At Chelsea, by all accounts, the dressing room started turning against him when the results weren't flowing in in 06-07. And we know Roman tired of him. At Inter he has kept them at the same same level as before his arrival, but has been seriously disgruntled this term - won't talk to media, makes overtures to the PL, and the results in the last three months would have any fan thinking hard about management. Would you accept a run of 8 draws/losses from 12 league games, with the league's best squad and not wonder...? He might yet pull off the Scudetto and CL, or he may draw a blank on both. Either way it wouldn't much change my opinion of him. Ranieri will never be as a good at winning trophies as Mourinho. Of course. But he does have real strengths and if Jose doesn't want to remembered as mercenary, good at winning campaigns but not wars then he could learn a thing from Don Claudio's 'niceness'.

you gotta back Ranieri. Guiding his hometown club to ultimate glory, and rubbing Mourinho's face in it. Inter's implosion should give those who think the sun shines out of Mourinho's arse pause to consider. We know he's good tactically and that he has a great mind for the game. But again it seems man-management and club relations are not what they should be. Things which Ranieri has got the knack for. Let's see in 5 games, but this could be a victory for 'nice' managers.