ElNino2

Torres’ red card was a wrong decision but I fail to see how you can claim you would have gone on to beat Utd if not for Clattenburg. There was nothing wrong with the decision to send off Ivanovic so you were already down to 10 men. The winning goal was offsider however that still makes it a draw, not a Chelsea win (and that is the linesman's fault, not Clattenburgs). Rafa may well have got his tactics wrong against Fulham. I don’t really remember the game so will take your word for it. New manager gets his tactics wrong in second game in charge is hardly a massive surprise as he would still be getting to know the squad. That said you didn’t concede in either of his first two games which. Looking at your results, was something of a rarity for you so maybe his primary focus was to get the back line sorted out. Maybe not, I am just guessing. Why was he forced to play Luiz in midfield? Wasn’t the first time he did it during the World Club game against Monterey. The BBCs match report shows that amongst your subs was Ramires and Lampard – are you trying to tell me that a central defender who had never played as a holding midfielder was a more obvious choice than either of those two to play there? In fact Lampard came on for Luiz – who played as the holding midfielder then? Doesn’t sound like it was forced to me, sounds more like you are making that up to support your argument. If it is a matter of principle then clearly that is never going to change for some people however I still don’t see anyone telling me why you are not demanding your owner leaves. He is the one who is trampling on your principles.

Not just to Di Matteo but to all the other managers you have had. AVB, Scolari, Grant…errr who else – it is getting easier to remember who hasn’t managed you! Yes he did well last season by rejuvenating a team that was either refusing to play for the previous manager or just refusing to play the way he wanted them to. However Rafa has also won the CL, and the UEFA Cup, and La Liga (twice) and the FA Cup. Now Dio Matteo might go on to have an equally impressive career however, at the moment, he is inferior to Rafa. He did well to bring West Brom up and started reasonably well in the Premiership but when the wheels fell off they stayed off, he never tried anything different to change things, just kept sticking to what had previously worked but wasn’t working anymore. Maybe this worried Roman when you have a run of bad results, who knows? Yes Rafa had two bad results (drawing with City is hardly a disaster) when he first took over. He was taking over a team that had forgotten how to win games. He is a manager, not Paul Daniels. Since then you have started wining again (granted the opposition hasn’t been the best however winning away at Everton is not to be sniffed at as they have a very good home record). Yes they were the better side for the first half an hour or so but you turned it round in the second half. I presume any intervention by the manager was irrelevant? Was Jose’s Chelsea never outplayed in the first half of games but turn things on their head in the second half? Without even needing to check I think I can safely say they were. Let us not forget that before he took over you got thrashed by Juve, lost to West Brom, drew with Swansea, scraped past a weak Utd team in the league cup, drew at home against us and scraped a win at home against Shaktar (yes I did need to look some of that up!). If drawing with Fulham and losing to West Ham is poor then what is that? Moving Luiz to being the holding midfielder is a good decision. It isn’t genius by Rafa by any means as every pundit in the country has been saying it should be done for ages. However he did it, Di Matteo didn’t – he just carried on selecting a liability in the centre of your defence.

I can understand that although must admit I think detesting him is a tad over the top. So demand your owner leaves. Rafa didn't sack Di Matteo and appoint himself. It is your owner who has treated a club legend badly and ignored the opinion of the fans. As for Rafa not having managerial talent I think the record books will show he has. .

Of course I am not here to comfort you nor am I here to stir things up between you. You appear to be doing that well enough without any external help! If it all goes belly up for Chelsea then of course I will like it, just as I am sure most Chelsea fans enjoy the fact that we are also rans in mid table now. I am just curious to find out why there is so much hatred for a man who, so far at least, appears to be doing the right things, things that other managers would be getting credit for. I find it hard to reconcile anybody claiming that they can show their disgust for Rafa as manager whilst claiming they are supporting their club. He is the manager, he chooses the team, the tactics and makes the decisions during the game. If you are not supporting the man doing that then you are not supporting your club. If you look back at every manager Chelsea have had since Roman took over the club then only Jose and Ancelotti have rightful claims to being better managers. Hiddink possibly but he wasn’t with you long enough. The rest of them are comfortably inferior to Rafa. If you want an inferior manager in charge of your club then how can that be wanting the best for your club?

Hello again peeps, I was tempted to pop my head in when Rafa was first appointed to see how you were reacting however thought it best to let things die down a bit first. Admittedly I haven’t read through all the posts on him as there are way too many and I do have three houses to rob tonight plus a bloke is coming over about some hubcaps I have in the garage. I have to say the reaction to Rafa seems massively over the top to me. It isn’t the first, or the last time, that somebody has joined a club who was previously in charge of a rival and had run ins with the club. The plastic flags quote really seems to be getting your goat but surely it is nothing more than mind games, the likes of which are played by every top manager and Kevin Keegan. You interpret it as a dig at the fans support and it could also be interpreted as a dig at the owners of the club for turning your club into a tourist attraction where the true fans are priced out of the game. If Jose said something like that about anyone then you would have lapped it up. While we are on the topic of Jose lets us recall what he said about Claudio Ranieri. I studied Italian five hours a day for many months to ensure I could communicate with the players, media and fans. Ranieri had been in England for five years and still struggled to say ‘good morning’ and ‘good afternoon.' "He has won a Super Cup, a small cup. He has never won a major trophy. Maybe he needs to change his mindset but he is too old to do it." A fairly pathetic and childish dig at a man who took Chelsea, and the Chelsea fans to his heart and I would imagine still loves them to this day. Is there hatred for Jose for that or is he forgiven because he delivered silverware? Whether Rafa will deliver silverware this year remains to be seen. However if his contract is extended I would bet he will deliver it in future years and has as much chance, if not more chance, than any of the other options available to Chelsea of delivering silverware regularly. Let’s face it Jose is the only manager Chelsea can get who you can almost bet your mortgage would deliver trophies but your owner is so stubborn he would rather see Jose managing one of the Manchester clubs than take him back. Your other options have no experience in England and the main target only has experience at one club. Rafa is clearly the best man for the job out of your options. Those wanting him out regardless of results will, I am sure, celebrate when he leaves but I wonder if they will still be content when the new manager has them 6th in the league and playing in the Europa Cup instead of the Champions League. I would have him back at Liverpool in an instance. I would also have Mourinho at the club in an instance. The reason being that I want the best for my club and that means getting the best people available at the time, whether that be players, owners, coaches or managers. However if you are that vitriolic about his appointment start protesting about Roman and demanding he walks. He is the one that sacked RDM (who I don’t think is going to be a top manager and therefore Roman, in the long run, made the right decision in my mind). He is the one that appointed Rafa. He is the one who might be prepared to let Lampard and Cole go on a free. He runs your club. If you don’t like what is being done at it, and who is being appointed at it tell him you want him, and his money, and the success it brings, to walk away to maintain your club’s integrity.

OK first off I will caveat this post by acknowledging that we are only two games in and you can read into that about as much as you can read into the average footballer kissing the badge. So based on what we have seen so far I don’t think my opinion on you, Man City and also us is as far from the mark as many of you seem to think. You have laboured badly in your first two games and all the same weaknesses of last season are still there to be seen (not all that surprising given that it is the same team and formation). We laboured in our opening game but, irrespective of the fact Arsenal lost a man, got a great result yesterday and it is a result any side would be delighted with. Suarez can make the difference in games like that in a way that I don’t think any of your current crop of strikers can make. My personal feeling is that on his return from suspension Sturridge should be the player you turn to to offer you something more imaginative up front. City, although still in need of a better defence, look frightening up front when they break at pace. Aguero and Silva already seem to have clicked, Dzeko has finally found his scoring boots and they can turn to the likes of Johnson and Balotelli (idiot yes but still very talented) on the bench. Furthermore it looks less and less likely that Tevez is going to find a new club and if they get to December and are right up challenging United at the top he may well be persuaded to stay in Manchester after all. For your sake I hope AVB grows some balls and drops Lampard but for our sake I hope he doesn’t. It will play into the hands of your opponents if he makes 50 appearances this season as the team is suffering by sticking with him. Hats off to Hilario though for his performance yesterday – given that so many of his own fans don’t seem to have any faith in him he stepped up and put in a quality performance.

Will try and respond to as much as I can. Maverick – you are referring to what has been rather than what might be going forward. Yes you have won more than us and yes there has been a big point gap however my point is that, this summer, we have taken steps to improve our squad whereas, so far, you have done very little. That is why I think we are closing the gap although I do acknowledge there are still 11 days to go before window closes. I also agree that Spurs will be a threat, which I acknowledged in my initial post. Barn – I don’t expect to be challenging either Manchester clubs – that is out of our reach. Third would be the most we could hope for but fourth would a great result. Personally I don’t think Chelsea will challenge for top spot unless you sort out your creativity problems. Your defence is solid and that will always support you but if you are going to carry on with the slow build up approach without any genuine width then too many points will be dropped to be a genuine title challenger. Midlandblue – as you probably know Joey is most likely moving on. How is Nando? I remember when he used to be a goalscorer. For £50m you could have got Aguero and most of the fee for Mata (if you do sign him) – I think we know which option would have been better for you. Nibs – I agree, as I said 4th spot would be position I would be delighted to finish in. There might still be a fair gap between us and you but I personally don’t think it will be as big as most on here think it will be. I don’t think you are safe for a top 3 finish – Arsenal’s decline will make that easier for you though. AVB – we do need to beat the likes of Sunderland (we will come back to home results agaisnt Sunderland later) just as you need to beat the likes of Stoke. Individually you are right about our players getting into the top sides however my hope is that, like the second half of last season, our whole is better than our individual parts. I don’t think that can be said of Chelsea at the moment. AVB has a job to do to reinstate the unity you had under Mourinho and Hiddink – it seems to disappear all too easily under other managers. Eggy – Carroll is a step down from Torres when Torres was at his best but Torres’s best (like Lampard and Gerrard’s) is a thing of the past so I was happy to take the £50m and get Carroll with money left over for Suarez. Our defence is a concern and an area I wish we had strengthened more. Very happy with the Enrique signing but still worried about leaking goals. That is something you have well sorted assuming you can keep all of them happy as there are a lot of players who will want a place in that back four. Your only concern from a defensive perspective has to be Cech’s ability to keep getting injured – fortunately not a problem for us with Reina (touch wood). Bluish – I think the idea of you winning the double is as delusional as Liverpool fans are accused of being. The cup is always possible but I think the title is out of our reach. Daveybaby – I would agree about Cole, Terry and Drogba but totally disagree about Lampard. As stated earlier it is quite clear he is not the player he once was and he hasn’t been it for too long for people to claim the ‘form temporary, class permanent’ line. This is not a blip in form but a clear indication of a player who is deteriorating. I don’t doubt Kenny – yes you did settle quickly under Mourinho but if you recall you didn’t settle so quickly under Ranieri – with the money he spent surely you should have won the title that year. You can’t pick one example of where it went well and ignore one where it didn’t go so well. Myles91 – what kind of team lose 3-0 at home against Sunderland?

Greetings to all my old friends on the Shed End, I guess I need a new user name! As the new season has now kicked off I thought I would pop in and see what the mood is like in the Chelsea camp and find out what you all think about the coming season, in particular how you guys are progressing and we are progressing. My thoughts are that the gap between you and us is going to be marginal this season unless you get your act together and make a few signings before the end of this month. We have made improvements in key areas and although I do think we will take a little time to settle because of the number of new players (and will therefore carry on dropping ‘silly’ points) I also think we will make a much better challenge for a top four position. The two Manchester teams will battle it out for the top two and the other two positions are there for the taking with you, us, Arsenal, and quite possibly Spurs fighting for them. Why you are still relying on predominantly the same first team as last season is beyond me as it was quite clear to everyone it was no longer a title winning side. You are clearly still chasing players and 2 or 3 signings in the next fortnight might change things but is seems odd that you have left it this late. We have made a lot of signings, possibly too many and clearly they won’t all be successes however at least we got our business done early so we can start the season as a squad with some pre-season behind us. The way you are going about your business seems strange – maybe it is the inexperience of the manager or the overbearing control by your owner – who knows but to outsiders looking in it seems like you are doing your best not to get better. Anyway enjoy the season and I dare say we will meet again…

Being serious for a moment the truth of the matter is that the majority of Liverpool fans are celebrating more the idea of getting rid of the current owners rather than celebrating the specifics of the new one.

We were just following the lead of our owners - the old hate one, hate them all mentality - you know the one that makes you either a freedom fighter or a terrorist without middle ground. Can you buy French fries again now?

Greetings once again your jolly little market traders. Surprised to see such a lack of humour round these parts – what happened Loz and Mod, you lot used to be able to afford a few chuckles (in between calling me a rat munching bin dipping c*nt – neither of which are true as I am allergic to tales and am very anti recycling so my bin is always overflowing meaning I never need to dip, just pick from the top). Anyway I thought before responding that I should try and get myself in a home counties state of mind so I can try and see where you are all coming from. As a result I have spent the last four hours trying to flog my house for half a million, moaning about train punctuality, scoffing when anyone mentioned liking left wing politics and wondering how on earth a family could have moved in to the area who make a mean jerk chicken. So now I am thinking like a Chelsea fan I find myself thinking if there are only two Americans in the world but I can’t help but remember a few Hollywood films I have seen where there are at least 11 American accents and a further 6 characters doing poor English ones. So there must be at least 20 Americans in the world which opens up the possibility that one lot of American owners might just be different from another. I have it on good authority that Hicks hates pickle in his burger but Henry can’t get enough of them – fancy that!!

Get photos of those trophies while you can, because next year we are coming for them ;)

Greetiings cock knee peeps, I know you have all been missing me and want to assure you I have been resting and basking in our glorious history whilst you play catch up. Anyway I thought I should pop in and assess the reaction on here to the news that my great club is about to be saved from a period of gloom. Although you may have been enjoying our fall from grace I think it is worth pointing out that our demise is a drop in the ocean in comparison to the extended periods of demise that you guys have suffered over your history. I have just tucked my 'Built by Shanks, raped by Yanks' banner in the basement for now - I would have burned it but thought I might need to use it again and wouldn't want to waste my giro on it. By the way you were spot on about Joe Cole being injury prone - I wish we had kept the robust Benayoun. Cheers Elnino2 p.s. Make sure you thump Man Utd this season - and City for that matter - both are cursed by the Mancunian floppy wrist mentality (even the large percentage from your neck of the woods)

Angry words bootboy, Tell me what was it like to be a key witness in the Gerrard trial because it would appear you have an in depth knowledge of ALL the evidence. CCTV footage does not necessarily prove guilt - after all last time I checked Gerrard has no criminal record as he was founf not guilty. Now some may argue that that was purely due to him bring rich enough to afford lawyers that common punters can't. However how different is that from Terry using his money and influence to get a gagging order to prevent the press publishing details of his misdemeanours?

Hallo peeps, Thought I would pop in to gauge the reaction to the JT sage and witness what I expect is flagrant hypocrisy. I have to say though that having read through the thread a number of you have had the decency to stick to the same morals you displayed about Gerrard’s court case as you have about Terry’s ability to treat his knob like an extension of his ego (regardless of whose heart he breaks along the way). To those people I doff my cap. However to the rest of you playing the ‘as long as he delivers on the pitch’ card I ask what your stance was when Gerrard was in court not so long ago. Was he innocent until proven guilty in your eyes, did his off the pitch behaviour suddenly become the most significant thing or did you offer him the same ‘go on lad, as long as you perform on match day’ forgiveness as you are John ‘who cares about my mates’ Terry. It is now more clear than ever that he thinks only of what is good for John Terry, puts the happiness of his wife and two children well down the pecking order, and does it comfortable in the knowledge that his £150k a week will see him through. I just hope Capello puts consideration of his dressing room ahead of consideration of his captain. Shame on Capello for failing to do likewise.

;) So Wolves rolled over and just gifted them 3 points so they go top? Wake up guys, the festive season seems to be affecting your judgement in some way.

;) Damn right!

I never really intedned this to be a Dogba vs Torres argument because I knew you guys would always choose Drogba just as we would always choose Torres - I suppose I was more interested in purely your oinion of Torres. However when you do cmpare the two I think it is a little too convenient for you to compare Torres now with Drogba now as you are looking at Drogba when surrounded by good players playing well with Torres who is surrounded by a team drastically out of form. Any striker, Drogba included, woul;d struggle to perform at their best if the majority of the team around them were under performing. For example Drogba wasn't so great in either of the past two seasons and I would say Torres was far better than him in both of them. Now Drogba may have his excuses - injuries and not liking the manager but surely that is no different form us claiming Torres can blame injuries and lack of support.

Just curious to get a blue perspective on this argument. For years our lot and your lot have disagreed about who is better out of Lampard and Gerrard and it was always a daft argument because we would always side with the man who plays football as if God was moving his feet ad you would always side with the man who ate too many dolly mixtures. Now the argument has probably moved on to the debate between Drogba and Torres. I am not going to waste time asking who you think is better because I think it will be exactly the same as the Gerrard vs Lampard debate. We obviously think Torres is better and you will obviously think Drogba is better. (Although Torres clearly has age on his side but that is only of use to us if we can keep him long term) So rather than ask who you think is the better of the two I guess I am just interested in your opinion of Torres. Most Liverpool fans hate Drogba - that goes without saying - but I actually don't. OK when my Grandpa asked me to bring some friends to the 25th anniversary of his incarceration in the old Walton Gaol, Didier wasn't top of the list however I don't despise him in the way I do say Gary Neville. Yes he goes down like an Essex whore on rent day and yes he has the pain threshold of a three year old child but he is undeniably a bloody handful for defences. I would have him at Anfield in a heart beat - would you welcome Torres?

'allo Peeps, I notice that not only has a funny line of mine been highlighted in this thread it has also been added in your quotes section. I would like to take this as a compliment but I realise this is just an evil southern ploy to bugger up my street cred in Toxteth and consequently bankrupt my Discount Hubcaps store. Just picking up on dkw's response. I should maybe clarify my initial point by saying that I don't think Gerrard excels in any role of a midfield four - I do agree that he is at best suited to playing further forward in a role supporting a striker (or even two strikers which we would be able to prove if we had two decent strikers!) What I meant was that he is more than capable of putting in a very good shift anywhere in a midfield four. You quote international managers as being supportive of your opinion but don't forget it was international managers who shifted Gerrard out of his natural position in order to accommodate both Gerrard and Lampard. Now you, as Chelsea fans, will probably argue that that was because the manager in question thought Lampard's contribution was too valuable to lose; however I, as a Liverpool fan would counter that by saying it was because Lampard wasn't capable of adapting to the same extent that Gerrard was. By the way can any of you help me out. We all know you Southern men are a bit limp in the wrist zone and as I grow older I am having problems keeping my perm nice and tight. I was just wondering if your lifelong experience in the hair design industry would put you in a position to recommend some good hair products - I would be loathed to lose my Huggy Bear look.

Good morning Blues friends (deep in your heart you know you like me) Just logging in briefly before I leave for work (I will set them up, you knock them down) Your combined teams are obviously created with blue tinted specs on just as I have my red ones one and that is inevitable because of the bias and also because you see your players play more than you do ours and vice versa. On the Cech vs Reina argument I would never have put Reina ahead of Cech in the Mourinho seasons and right up to the game where he fractured his skull. However since then I would have Cech as understudy as I think Reina has been more consistent and Cech has definitely lost a bit of his confidence (understandably) with dealing with crosses into a congested penalty box. That isn't to say I think he is now rubbish at them, just that his ability to deal with them has maybe dropped by 10% or so and that is enough to put Reina ahead of him. The rest of your argument for or against players are expected and fair enough I guess. That is apart from any idea that Gerrard wouldn't get in a combined team. That is frankly absurd - he can play anywhere in a midfield four should it be required. I am not going to get into the Lampard vs Gerrard debate as that is pointless because we will always see it one way and you will see it the other. My view is they could easily play together as Capello is proving and as Mourinho would ave proved if you had managed to offer him even more money than you did to leave us. Anyway better run - I have some stolen cars to cut and shut - enjoy your jellied eels.

I think you lack pace out wide and as you are there for skinning this January we are prepared to let you have Babel for £20m - we will also throw in Voronin as his driver!!

Cheers moi and Nibs, In answer to your question Nibs I am of course very disappointed. At the start of this season I thought this was going to be our year... :D (that line was for your entertainment) I actually didn't expect us to challenge this season but I did expect us to get third ahead of City and Arsenal. We have too many average players who are actually first team players rather than just squad players. I think we have five players capable of playing in both yours and Utd's first team with those five being Reina, Johnson, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres (Mascherano replacing Ballack and therefore allowing Essien to play further forward) however you can't surround players like that with the likes of Lucas, Babel, Voronin and Insua and expect to get away with it. On the Rafa question I think it is time for a change - not because I don't have faith in his tactics but more because I feel things are going stale at the club and we need a change in direction. My choice would be Mourinho or Hiddink but we may have financial problems with bringing in managers of that profile. I think we will recover a bit this season and finish fourth. If you were being honest who of our team do you think would get into a combined Chelsea Liverpool outfit?

I hope you stuff the Mancs and see no reason why you shouldn't. I totally accept that Liverpool have been piss poor this season however I don't think United have been that much better than us in terms of player performance - what they do have which we don't is a squad where the back up players are at least competent so the players they can turn to when they have injuries are still Premiership standard. However best 11 against best 11 we are better than them and, at the moment, you are better than both of us. We beat them and beat them comfortably and I expect you to do likewise.

Sticks and stones and all that. I have never carried a knife or 1. murdered 2. thieved 3. perjured 4. been a thug 5. or a fascist 6. sliced up parents etc etc etc. In fact it appears to me it is a few of you who seem to be speaking from experience so my guess is that it is not I who is, or was, the hooligan/thug here but the people throwing the accusations at me. I had a look around at your posts Jock and see you are also a Rangers fan - haven't they been covering themselves in glory these past few years. I take it I am entitled to treat you s if you were the one of the thugs in Manchester, Romania and.eerrr was it not also a game in Spain? I remember Lofty behaving this way when I was last here so expected to see him jump in but it appears he now has a little bit of cyber back up. Anyway I also remember there was a lot of people on here with more interesting things ot talk about than who they think is a prize c&nt so I think I will look around and try and engage with them.