Davey Baby

Interesting, now it's not just his teammates it's the formation. I wonder how long before it's Torres?

Either that or you're an idiot.

Must admit doubts are growing for me over our manager, as I'm sure they are for all of us. He gets this season and the summer for me, but next season the excuses stop I imagine, as far as Roman is concerned. Dowd is a c**t, let's get that out of the way first. Torres just doesn't inspire confidence. We lack self-belief as a club, the opposite to Liverpool and that's solely down to the respective managers. Our opponents can smell blood. It's not good.

Westway, you seem to be under the impression I want him to fail, or I don't give credit where it's due. That is wrong. I have said I think he deserves a starting berth given our limited options. However, it couldn't have gone more disastrously thus far and I'm sick of everyone blaming the world and his uncle. If AVB isn't playing him it's because Torres has given him the ability not to pick him, unlike Mata and Sturridge say, or Ramires. That's how it works. I don't know why you're saying I brought up that chance. I haven't, once. I was merely responding to your assertion that it was "deceptively difficult", which appears to me to be the same old hackneyed excuses.

I pick up bits of bullsh*t from various sources then I repeat it as if it's gospel. It's a trick I learned off the wife.

I made it up.

To be fair to him, I think it turned out he didn't say those things.

The plot thickens .. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/28/qpr-owner-45000-venue-loftus-road

It appears Lukaku, Romeu and Josh play. Lampard will skipper. That's a midfield 3 of Josh, Romeu and Lamps. Interesting. Presumably Lukaku will play up top so Torres misses out, which is a shame. In fact it's downright ridiculous. He needs games he needs goals. He needs form. It would also be nice for him to put the Liverpool hoodoo to bed. Kalou also plays apparently, with one of Malouda and Anelka playing. That doesn't strike me as a formidable front three. Terry's out so presumably Alex plays, alongside either Ivan or Luiz, with Bos at right-back. Alternatively Bos will play left-back as he did against Leverkuson. He played very well. Meaning Ferreira would play right-back and Cole gets rested. I don't expect Bertrand to play which is a shame. In goal, I would like to see Turnbull, not that I rate him, but what's the point of having a back-up keeper if you don't ever give him a run-out? If Cech gets injured in the CC that's our season well and truly over. I would keep him well away from this one, but I expect him to play, so weak are our reserves in this department.

I rated Bent at Charlton. People forget how many goals he scored even when they were struggling. I expected him to do good things at Spurs and wasn't surprised when it worked out for him at Sunderland. He then went for £25m which caused a lot of shock. It was over the odds but it was also guaranteed goals from a very underestimated striker. I remember saying when we signed Torres that we could have got Bent for half the price and my mate laughed at the comparison. I never thought Torres would prove worse than Bent I just thought Torres wasn't the answer. I thought his best days had gone and I have seen nothing to change my mind. Sunderland can't score without Bent, which makes you wonder, would Torres score for them, given they both thrive on the same kind of service? No-one's telling me it's easier to score for Sunderland than for Chelsea. Thanks for the compliment :)

Don't agree. Charlton and Sunderland moved the ball faster than Spurs? That's Charlton under Curbishley and Sunderland under Bruce? Spurs were a far superior side and the reason it didn't work out for him had nothing to do with style. That's my opinion. The manager just didn't fancy him or didn't think he could succeed there. Surely if the reason was the one you stated Redknapp would have addressed that, but I suspect the reason is somewhat different. Personally, I think Redknapp underestimated Bent, or maybe Spurs were just too big a club for him at the time. Whatever. Regarding the above two posts, this is a gross simplification of how we played, and is misrepresentative of my argument. We did not simply pump long balls in the direction of Drogba. That's balderdash. Sure, we had the option, as Drogba provided that option, but I think you're doing him and us a gross disservice, it was much more refined than that. Now, if Torres provides a different option, one that Drogba doesn't, it's up to him to show it. Give us the option and it will be catered for. Drogba has scored many goals running on to through balls, getting on the end of crosses, moments of individual brilliance. Peter Crouch he's not. The reason we played to his strengths is because he showed us his strengths whereas Torres, up to now, has been unable to do even the most simple things most of the time. He has just looked laboured. Maybe it's his haircut maybe it's the weather maybe it's his teammates .. On the other hand, maybe it's just him. People bang on about his performance at Old Trafford. Yes it was good. I said so at the time. It's what Suarez does every week. Plus some. Do we ever think Torres will reach that level? Honestly. Yes I would say some of the old guard can be moved on, but the old guard haven't performed any worse than him, and it's just possible he's not helping their cause as much as they're not helping his. Why is that never considered? Why is it always somebody else hindering him? Providers look better with better centre-forwards. It works the other way too, not that people will say it. Great players make teammates look good. Personally I feel sure AVB wishes we hadn't purchased him, as I'm sure he would love a top-notch striker, one of his choosing and one who could do the business week-in week-out, but that's a signing he can't make unless Torres is moved on himself. Not saying I've given up hope. There were some encouraging signs for a brief spell. Just saying the excuses have got to stop. I have never heard so many excuses on behalf of one player, and this is supposed to be a top player, someone who's meant to enhance us, not someone who causes everything to tear apart, so we can accomodate him properly. What a wonderful world he resides. No personal responsibility. Everyone else's fault .. Malouda, Lampard, Sturridge, Cole .. And that's just on this page ! I've never seen any excuses given for Sturridge nor does he ask for them. He just gets on with it, shows his teammates what he can do and they respond. He imposes himself which is what all top players do. If they want you to play a certain way they make sure you do it, by imposing themselves, by giving you no option. It's amazing that people think his teammates are unable to play fast balls into space. It makes you wonder how Anelka scored all those goals whenever he played centre-forward, was that by pumping long balls up to him too? Anelka has scored more goals at Chelsea than at any other club. That was before he was converted to a right-winger, and even last season, on the few ocassions he played up top, he invariably scored, fancy that. Anelka, flaws and all. Edit: This is the same Chelsea who can only pump it long for the big man ..

I can't agree with you here. You're blaming his teammates again, "If only he played with this fella, if only he didn't play with this fella, etc etc". I don't buy it. Torres has to play with Mereiles does he? And with Mata? And he has to play with Romeu but not Sturridge? Perhaps he should have written all these provisos into his contract. Perhaps he should have told us he only performs well with certain individuals and we would have to change our whole team. Or perhaps he shouldn't have signed for us, knowing he was going to have to play alongside workhorses such as Lampard and Ramires. It must be really hard for him. Okay, Sturridge didn't have his best game against Arsenal, and rightly got criticised, but let's not blame Torres' whole performance on him, that's just ridiculous, every bit as ridiculous as people blaming his poor form on Malouda and Lampard. This theory that his teammates don't pass to him is wearing thin. Perhaps he has to look at himself. Yes, Sturridge missed a golden opportunity to set him up, but sh*t happens, players f**k up, it is impossible to be perfect. I maintain that Torres was largely anonymous that game, when a decent striker would have terrorised their defence. Torres was playing alongside Sturridge and Mata that day, the same Sturridge and Mata that everyone wanted to see him play alongside. The excuses have got to stop. The vast majority of strikers across the world would be happy to play alongside the players Torres plays with. I'm sure Darren Bent would. How come he can score goals? Villa are sh*t. Right now, Torres has a worse goals-per-minute ratio than Andy Carroll. That's bad. Now, I admit, even though he has been poor in his last 150 minutes, he was decent before then for a brief spell, and a striker needs to be allowed the odd ineffective game in order to run into form, therefore Torres has every right to feel aggrieved at missing out. I have said that. However the manager has decided Drogba deserves that run instead, and Torres just has to accept it. He has to accept he hasn't done very much since he joined us therefore he has no right to demand a first-team spot. None at all. He has to grab his chance whenever it arises, just like everyone else. It's up to him. 100% up to him.

Seeing as you brought up that miss, it strikes me that this is just another version of the same theme. Either he can't score because of his teammates or he misses sitters because they're not sitters after all. I have never seen so many excuses on behalf of one player. Let's call a spade a spade. As Spiller says, the guy has been with us almost a year and you can count the number of good games on one hand. That's the fact right there. People dig out Sturridge but when he gets a chance he grabs it, whether it be a chance in front of goal or a substitute appearance. He is always staking a claim, saying "drop me at your peril". That's what Nando has to do and he ain't doing it. You say the bolded parts sound like Adrian Durham, yet you offer no answers to the questions, which are perfectly valid. Why have strikers that play for all the minnows in the Prem got more goals than him? I ask with the intention of putting to bed the myth that it's all about teammates. I'm guessing it's easier to bag goals for Chelsea than it is for Wigan. As for trapping a bag of cement, it's a turn of phrase, and it applies in Nando's case. His last few outings he has been truly shocking, failing to do even the most basic things, looking distinctly second-rate. I get no pleasure from saying that. Against Arsenal he was pretty much anonymous. Dropped for the next game he came on at half-time and didn't put a foot right. Yes, we played better second-half but we could hardly have played worse. People seem to equate the fact we played better with the fact he was playing, conveniently forgetting we played better in the second-half against Liverpool, with Drogba, who also played sh*t. I didn't crucify him for that chance. Strikers miss chances, I'm fine with that. I just find it amusing that so many people go to all sorts of lengths to explain why it wasn't a sitter when it plainly was. There is an awful lot of apologies going on here. Like you, I wanted to see him get more time in the subsequent three games. In fact I prefer him over Drogba, but that's not saying much, unfortunately. However, in those combined 20 minutes he's played (against Wolves and Liverpool) he hasn't looked good. You may say that's no time at all and I'd agree, but I can only judge him on what I see, and in the last 150 minutes, he's done f**k all. I believe that he can feel aggrieved that Drogba is playing in front of him, as he had hit a bit of form prior to his suspension, but let's get real here and put that form into perspective: Two goals against Genk, a fine performance at Old Trafford, and a good first-half against Swansea. That's what it amounts to. Four goals and two of them against minnows. It was great to see and gave us all hope but AVB decided to drop him after Arsenal and that's fair enough even though I would personally have stuck with him due to our limited options. Perhaps AVB thinks Drogba gives us more presence, or more toughness, or more leadership. Perhaps that's what he thinks we need at the moment. More fighting qualities. I don't know. I suspect Drogba knocked on AVB's door and said "why aren't I your first pick?", to which AVB replied, "I'll give you your chance, if you fight tooth and nail for me, if you stop trying to befriend your opponents, if you stop taking corners and get your nut on crosses and start banging them in". That's what I suspect happened, hence the reason Drogba has been given his chance, and sadly this is Drogba giving it his all, firmly committed to the cause, he just doesn't have it in the tank. I'm sure Drogba's current form ensures this is his last season with us, and I'm sure Torres will get his chance, as AVB says. He'll just have to grab it and stop feeling sorry for himself. No-one is responsible for his predicament but him.

We appear to have signed a kid .. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2067159/Chelsea-beat-Manchester-City-Andreas-Christensen.html

Sturridge may well be in England's first team by the time the Euros come along. That doesn't make him world-class but it makes him a darn sight better than Carlton Cole.

Is it possible that Anelka has been frozen out in the hope that he leaves this winter rather than wait for the summer, thus saving us some money, possibly getting a fee, and freeing up a spot? I expect he will play tomorrow but I'm not sure he will feature again in the league, barring injuries and suspensions. Regarding Drogba, if he wants to stay at Chelsea (big "if"), then he has every motivation to perform well, as his contract is up for renewal. Given his perfomances this season and last, the club are probably feeling they will let him go.

Oh yeah. My mind must have automatically jumped to every player playing on Merseyside. I saw Everton recently, against Newcastle I think, and Baines was clearly their best player, I was really surprised by the level of his performance and he is definite international quality. I'm surprised he's still at Everton to be honest and I doubt they'll be able to keep him beyond this summer. Anyway back on topic .. Lucas Leiva much improved but nothing special, IMO.

I have never understood this argument. Di Santo has more goals for Wigan this term, despite sometimes being sub. I could list a whole load of players that bang in more and play for lowly clubs. Chelsea dominate most teams. Despite our moans we still have world-class players, players most clubs can only dream about. We cannot put Torres' failure in front of goal down to his teammates. It is down to the fact he just looks ruddy awful most of the time. I know what kind of player he is, I know he plays off the shoulder, I know he likes the ball played in quick, I know he's a confidence player. So what? So are loads of strikers who play for crappy teams. How come they can score goals and he can't? How come they can trap a ball? I keep hearing "if we play the right team". I have never heard of a player that needed everything around him quite so refined in order to get a performance out of him. The temperature has to be just right, the grass has to be a certain length, the moon has to be rising. Not directed at you specifically but at everyone that trots out this excuse. I think there's an unwillingness on some Chelsea fans' part to admit he has looked truly shoddy for most of his time here, and if his name hadn't been Torres, if he had been a youngster cutting his cloth etc, people would be saying he had no chance.

Not for me. Look at how Sturridge has performed on the right, despite the fact he has no right foot and he's a striker. Now compare this to Anelka, who has performed there loads but still can't get his head around the position. He contributes absolutely nothing there for me. No goals, no penetration, no threat. He's there to make things happen, that's the role of an attacker, and he doesn't do that. He takes too many touches, slows things down, and goes backwards. He is just unable of being direct in that position. It is excruciating. He may however feel aggrieved that he hasn't been given a chance up top, given the form of Torres and Drogba.

What a wonderfully eloquent post and I commend your honesty and courage. Well done sir. I may be being naive but it's not necessarily depressesion that causes one to take one's own life, or am I wrong? I don't want to speculate (really) but something may have happened, an incident, or something may have come out, or was going to, etc, something that he didn't feel he (or his family) could cope with. This is a general point rather than about Speed per se.

The player I like is Leighton Baines. Really good full-back.

I'm impressed with your staying power.

I agree AVB has given him precious little time lately and he should have got more, especially as Drogba doesn't have the legs. As to whether he would have scored against Wolves, that is a moot point. He has looked sh*t in his last few performances, akin to last season I'm afraid, albeit coming off the bench. If he wants games he has to stake a claim, same as every player. Under-performing players should not play. Same goes for Drogba. Sturridge will put up with playing on the right for now, but it's not his best position and not the one he wants. He has said so. To deny him top spot you better have someone who is doing the business, and if AVB doesn't think Torres is up to it, it may be preferable to sell and possibly get someone else in. Sturridge is far hotter property than Torres and I can't see that changing. He is just a far more valuable asset, even though he's not perfect. We can't do without him right now, whereas Torres is dispensable. Selling Torres is an option if the manager wants that. That's the bottom line. The manager should only have players he wants. Roman might see it differently ..