"I'm not going of Jay Tee isnt there"

[Guest]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1951

Chelsea's fat-cat fans on warpath

Chelsea's prawn sandwich brigade are threatening a demonstration against the club if their season ticket renewal notices are sent out before the futures of Jose Mourinho, John Terry and Frank Lampard are decided.

A group of 20 corporate season ticket-holders in the East Stand at Stamford Bridge have written to chief executive Peter Kenyon outlining their dismay at being pressurised to pay around ?4,000 for their top-price seats next season when there is so much uncertainty at the club.

Chelsea staff have already telephoned the corporates to give them advance warning of the potential 15 per cent hike in prices.

The fans' annoyance is not so much about the cost as the fact that they are being locked in before Terry and Lampard sign new contracts and while it is not known if Mourinho will still be the manager.

The corporates claim Chelsea have accelerated the season ticket renewal process to avoid it clashing with any bad news about the big three.

The fat-cat fans say they have each contributed ?2,500 to a ?50,000 fighting fund, which will pay for an advertisement in the Evening Standard cataloguing what they claim are misrepresentations by Chelsea and urging other season ticket-holders not to renew until there is 'clarity on Mourinho, Terry and Lampard'.

The ad will also refer to Chelsea TV's Neil Barnett speaking about corporate season ticket-holders being 'screwed' on the day the club announced no other increases in seat prices.

Copies of the advert will be posted on the internet and also left on all Tube trains passing through Fulham Broadway on match days.

Chelsea would make no comment.

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ffs do you support the team or three people in the team? How many people will be at SB every week when Abramovic gets bored and all the stars f*ck off? If you support the club you support the club, going to the match shouldn't depend on who's wearing the shirt. Plastic c**ts like these shouldn't be going to football imo

[loz]

What a moron you are

A group of 20 corporate season ticket-holders

I'll let you work out the %

[Maksimov]

You could also ask do you Yanks Mancs support a team or the owner? I mean, the people who went on to support FCUM were a pretty loyal bunch, aren't they? Come to think of it, Maybe they should've called themselves the Soccer Club United of Manchester to make it more fitting.

And there hasn't been all that many anti-Glazer protests lately. He's a right good lad afterall, eh?

[Guest]

FC United was formed as a demonstration against the Yank f**kwit destroying our club, your lot will leave if the star player isn't playing. FC fans are still United through and through, they just refuse to go to OT because they dont want to give Glazer a penny out of their pockets.

If we got relegated and lost all our 'stars' there would still be 70,000+ at OT every week, and thats a fact.

[BLUENUT]

If we got relegated and lost all our 'stars' there would still be 70,000+ at OT every week, and thats a fact.

I suppose they'll all be wearing flat caps and smoking roll-ups!!

Wasn't it you're ex-captain that invented the 'prawn sandwich' quote, aimed at your supporters.

Football is not all about a bovril and a pie, and Utd are the front runners in corporate supporters as Mr Keane pointed out many years ago!!

[Loud and Proud]

FC United was formed as a demonstration against the Yank f**kwit destroying our club, your lot will leave if the star player isn't playing. FC fans are still United through and through, they just refuse to go to OT because they dont want to give Glazer a penny out of their pockets.

If we got relegated and lost all our 'stars' there would still be 70,000+ at OT every week, and thats a fact.

Our lot? What, 20 corporate to**ers from the City! Behave!

You'd know all about fair weather, corporate nonces though, wouldn't ya!? Who was it that spoke of his disgust at the prawn sandwiches at a certain club?

If Chelsea got relegated they'd have to reduce the prices, the stars would do 1 and then all the old boys and priced out youngsters would come back. And SB would sell out every week too.

[forbzy]

FC United was formed as a demonstration against the Yank f**kwit destroying our club, your lot will leave if the star player isn't playing. FC fans are still United through and through, they just refuse to go to OT because they dont want to give Glazer a penny out of their pockets.

If we got relegated and lost all our 'stars' there would still be 70,000+ at OT every week, and thats a fact.

Sorry mate but I beg to differ. was at Old Trafford when prices were much less in 1988-89 season (3 or 4 quid for the terraces I think) . They got 26,000 on a Tuesday night against Wimbledon. They won the FA Cup that year but the league was already out of reach so the crowd reflected interest. If United had a few seasons in midtable they would still get decent crowds but not 70,000 every week.

[loz]

Forbzy

The amusing thing about his claim is that Utd's average league attendances have never actually topped 70,000 (and that's a fact)

Our little walk on part Utd fan just proves me wrong post after post, just as I think he cannot be more daft he posts again and proves me wrong

[Guest]

Its a bit difficult to have a 70,000 average when the ground didn't actually reach a 70,000 capacity until 2006

The last time we got relegated in 74 we were still getting 60,000 at OT. Fact.

[Maksimov]

FC fans are still United through and through, they just refuse to go to OT because they dont want to give Glazer a penny out of their pockets.

Yeah, they're United through and through. Football Club United of Manchester that is. If a bunch of fans formed a new club every time they weren't happy with the the way their club is being ran, we'd have about a dozen new football clubs in England every year. If the FCUM people wanted to go watch football at affordable prices and/or they didn't want to give money to Glazer, why didn't they just go watch Oldham or Rochdale? The smaller clubs need all the money they can get and going to see FCUM isn't any different than going to see some other Manchester area club, because there's no two ways about it, it is NOT Manchester United. It's like saying having a mistress is fine just as long as you still love your wife.

[geezer]

Its a bit difficult to have a 70,000 average when the ground didn't actually reach a 70,000 capacity until 2006

The last time we got relegated in 74 we were still getting 60,000 at OT. Fact.

Yep, 60,000 muppets. Fact.

[Loud and Proud]

You've forced me to lower the bar

Mate you're a fuc**ng pr*k. FACT!!

Always look on the runway for ice!

[Maksimov]

Its a bit difficult to have a 70,000 average when the ground didn't actually reach a 70,000 capacity until 2006

Why is Old Trafford's record attendance from 1930's then? Or don't you count the olden times when stadiums weren't all seaters?

Besides, that graph that was posted earlier seems to show that the attendances for the years around the relegation started with a number 4.

[Guest]

Yeah, they're United through and through. Football Club United of Manchester that is. If a bunch of fans formed a new club every time they weren't happy with the the way their club is being ran, we'd have about a dozen new football clubs in England every year. If the FCUM people wanted to go watch football at affordable prices and/or they didn't want to give money to Glazer, why didn't they just go watch Oldham or Rochdale? The smaller clubs need all the money they can get and going to see FCUM isn't any different than going to see some other Manchester area club, because there's no two ways about it, it is NOT Manchester United. It's like saying having a mistress is fine just as long as you still love your wife.

We've been unhappy with the way the club has been run for 15 odd years. We've watched our club overprice the tickets, turn everything into 'merchandise', become a PLC, remove the 'football club' from the badge amongst many things but thats just part and parcel of supporting a football club in this day and age. Its different when a geezer who doesn't know sh*t about football and doesnt care about our club takes over simply for his own profit...and no proper United fan would ever sit back and watch that happening. True, FC United is NOT Man United but its not a replacement either. Every one of those FC fans still follow United...the only difference being from a pub instead of the Stretty. Like the FCU song goes,

We don't pay Glazer or work for Sky,

Still sing City's gonna die,

Two United's but the soul is one,

As the Busby Babes carry on

Why is Old Trafford's record attendance from 1930's then? Or don't you count the olden times when stadiums weren't all seaters?

loz's graph was from 1947-2006, so my point was that it was impossible to have an average attendance of 70,000 when OT never reached that capacity during that period.

Always look on the runway for ice!

There was always going to be one idiot

[g3.7]

Every one of those FC fans still follow United...the only difference being from a pub instead of the Stretty. Like the FCU song goes,

this is utter nonsense. as is, it's fair to say, a lot of what you've written on here. you're also not a great wind up merchant.

[Maksimov]

Its different when a geezer who doesn't know sh*t about football and doesnt care about our club takes over simply for his own profit.

So the only difference is that the new owner doesn't know about football. The old owners were screwing the fans with the prices and what not, but as long as they knew their football, people were willing to give them their money.

Besides, what do they need FCUM for if it's not a replacement for ManU or substitute for going to Old Trafford?

[loz]

It is a fair point that you can't average 70,000 when your capacity isn't 70,000 (although it still begs the question of how it is you think it is fact that you would get more than 70,000+ every week if you were relegated)

So lets just test that little hypothesis shall we.

The hypothesis being that the Utd fan base is so loyal that a period of relative failure would not impact on their gate figures.

What we are going to compare is the average gate for the season as a % of the highest gate for the season (as you have to assume the highest gate of the season is going to be near enough the full capacity)

First off lets consider records form the 1990s - a period when Utd were clearly the most successful side in the country.

Season.....Position.....Highest.....Average.......%....

1990-91.... 6th Div1....47,485..... 43,242...... 91.06%

1991-92.... 2nd Div1... 47,576...... 44,985...... 94.55%

1992-93.... 1st Prem... 45,428...... 35,573......78.31%

1993-94.... 1st Prem... 44,751...... 44,244...... 98.87%

1994-95.....2nd Prem..43,868..... 43,682...... 99.58%

1995-96....1st Prem... 53,926...... 41,681...... 77.29%

1996-97.... 1st Prem... 55,314...... 55,081...... 99.58%

1997-98.... 2nd Prem.. 55,306...... 55,164...... 99.74%

1998-99.... 1st Prem... 55,316...... 55,188...... 99.77%

Pretty impressive - bar a couple of blip seasons (which was to do with rebuilding) always over 90% and often near full capacity.

Now lets look at the same stats for the 80s, an era predominantly dominated by the other sons of satan (but Utd still a top flight team, not relegaed as United Road was talking about)

Season.....Position.....Highest.....Average.......%....

1980-81.... 8th Div1....57,049...... 45,071...... 79.00%

1981-82.... 3rd Div1... 57,830...... 44,570...... 77.07%

1982-83.... 3rd Div1... 57,397...... 41,552...... 72.39%

1983-84.... 4th Div1... 56,121...... 42,533...... 75.79%

1984-85.... 4th Div1....56,638...... 42,881...... 75.71%

1985-86.... 4th Div1....54,575...... 46,321...... 84.88%

1986-87.... 11th Div1.. 54,103...... 40,625...... 75.09%

1987-88.... 2nd Div1... 48,087...... 39,216...... 81.55%

1988-89.... 11th Div1.. 46,377...... 36,847.......79.45%

1989-90.... 13th Div1.. 47,245...... 39,077...... 82.71%

Well well well, who would have believed it (well actually just about all of us would)

So what this hypothesis and modelling shows (and many great mathematicians have discovered the same thing) is that United Road is talking total b*ll*cks.

[The Moos]

ffs do you support the team or three people in the team? How many people will be at SB every week when Abramovic gets bored and all the stars f*ck off? If you support the club you support the club, going to the match shouldn't depend on who's wearing the shirt. Plastic c***s like these shouldn't be going to football imo

Oh, ffs!

Do you really think that Manure doesn't have any fans who just like the team because it has big stars and have won titles? If you think so then you are either really naive or a complete id*ot. Your pick.

Will fans leave if Roman and some stars leave Chelsea? Of course they will. Every team (Chelsea, Arsenal, Juventus, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter etc.) have "day-to-day" fans. Fans who shouldn't get to call themselves fans at all if it were up to me. F*cking t*ats it a more fitting description.

But most fans will stay whatever happens and the same goes for most team. Those fans are the ones that matters.

That article clearly states that it is 20 "fans" not all the fans. 20 out of all Chelsea supporters must be a very low percentage.

[SydneyChelsea]

I find it impressive that even the corporates know what's good for the club and are proactive about it.

At Man U, the corporates still wonder why David Beckham doesn't show up.

[Guest]

Interesting bit of research loz, but dont you think it would be a lot more helpful to look at the attendances the last time United were relegated instead of a random period 'dominated by the sons of satan'?

1974...the year we finished 21st in Division 1;

average attendance: 42,721

attendance position: 1st

1975...first season in Division 2;

average attendance: 48,388

attendance position: 1st

Even when we finished last in the league, and after we were relegated, we still had the biggest turnouts in the country.

Another thing you didnt bother to research was our percentage attendance compared with the rest of the country in the 80's. Our attendance position compared to the rest of the country:

1980-81.....1st

1981-82.....1st

1982-83.....1st

1983-84.....1st

1984-85.....1st

1985-86.....1st

1986-87.....1st

1987-88.....2nd

1988-89.....2nd

1989-90.....1st

Anyhow, 2007 is different from the 80's, and with the high demand for tickets today, we would still sell out if we were relegated to the Championship. The numpties and day trippers would f**k off and 70,000 of the club's hardcore support would fill OT. When it looked like everybody had boycotted after Glazer took over (and thousands of fans did) OT still sold out every game.

The fact remains that we've got the most (and the best) supporters in the land.

[forbzy]

So you've changed your stance now that your are presented with those stats. No longer 70,000 every week but just the highest in the premier league. Back in the 80's United were one of the few teams that still had a capacity of more than 45,000 so even though the stadium was frequently only 75% full they still got the highest crowd. Other stadiums (e.g. Liverpool, Everton) were restricted in capacity following crowd problems and probably would have got bigger averages than United without those restrictions.

Anyway you are talking about the present so lets stick with that. United now do probably have the largest worldwide fanbase although I don't think you will find many on this site saying they are the best. Many clubs would in fairness lay claim to having the best fans. Outside of Chelsea (personal bias of course) I've always thought Newcastle are hard to beat. Little to cheer over the years but vocal, loyal and passionate throughout.

I've got off the original topic though. If United were to hit another dry spell like the 80's and spend a few seasons outside the Champions League I would expect the crowds to go down now that you have such a large capacity. With so many other clubs (Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and others with big money backers) now getting exposure through Worldwide TV the casual global football fans will always want to see the teams that are challenging for trophies and those teams will have bigger stadiums to accomodate those fans in the future. Many of the original United fans from Manchester and Salford have been priced out of the game (like many fans at other clubs) and so cannot be relied upon during the tougher days. Like most other Premier teams (Chelsea included) if United don't knock their prices down their attendances will decline without continual success on the field. You only have to look at Italian football if you want proof of that.

[Maksimov]

Even if you had the best attendances during that period, it doesn't take away from the fact that you weren't selling all of your tickets, so you still havent' provided proof why you would still get 70k attendances even if you were relegated. When you're not doing well, the attendances drop at your stadium just like pretty much anywhere else. With all these stats being thrown around, it'd be interesting to see the figures for the clubs in the top 10 in attendances for these periods and look at those figures together with the maximum capacities for those stadiums.

[forbzy]

Forbzy

The amusing thing about his claim is that Utd's average league attendances have never actually topped 70,000 (and that's a fact)

Our little walk on part Utd fan just proves me wrong post after post, just as I think he cannot be more daft he posts again and proves me wrong

Great graph there. Notice the steady decline over the years when United were struggling to win things in the 70's and 80's. The capacity was 54,000 in those days and tickets were cheap.

[loz]

1974...the year we finished 21st in Division 1;

average attendance: 42,721

attendance position: 1st

1975...first season in Division 2;

average attendance: 48,388

attendance position: 1st

And I don't deny that that is impressive stats, I have never argued that you get good gates. The point I was making is that your claim that you would still pack the stadium if you were relegated is not backed up by history. The 80s indicate that and those very seasons you quote also indicate that.

You got average gates of 42k and 48k - your capacity then was just over 60k meaning an average of 18k and 12k empty seats per game.

If you had simply said that over time you have always averaged very impressive attendances irrespective of form then I would have agreed with you. However you didn't, you came on with some cock and bull story which simply falls apart at the seams when examined even a little closely.

[Guest]

So you've changed your stance now that your are presented with those stats. No longer 70,000 every week but just the highest in the premier league. Back in the 80's United were one of the few teams that still had a capacity of more than 45,000 so even though the stadium was frequently only 75% full they still got the highest crowd. Other stadiums (e.g. Liverpool, Everton) were restricted in capacity following crowd problems and probably would have got bigger averages than United without those restrictions.

Anyway you are talking about the present so lets stick with that. United now do probably have the largest worldwide fanbase although I don't think you will find many on this site saying they are the best. Many clubs would in fairness lay claim to having the best fans. Outside of Chelsea (personal bias of course) I've always thought Newcastle are hard to beat. Little to cheer over the years but vocal, loyal and passionate throughout.

I've got off the original topic though. If United were to hit another dry spell like the 80's and spend a few seasons outside the Champions League I would expect the crowds to go down now that you have such a large capacity. With so many other clubs (Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and others with big money backers) now getting exposure through Worldwide TV the casual global football fans will always want to see the teams that are challenging for trophies and those teams will have bigger stadiums to accomodate those fans in the future. Many of the original United fans from Manchester and Salford have been priced out of the game (like many fans at other clubs) and so cannot be relied upon during the tougher days. Like most other Premier teams (Chelsea included) if United don't knock their prices down their attendances will decline without continual success on the field. You only have to look at Italian football if you want proof of that.

If we hit a dry spell the crowds will CHANGE, not go down. The day trippers and Asians who go to OT every week with their digital cameras and autograph books would go to Barca, Chelsea, Liverpool etc but the price drop will mean the local fans from Salford and Manchester, and the ones from London and Dublin who make the trip down every week would be able to attend. There are thousands of people on the OT waiting list (which is why the club is planning to further expand to 96K in a few years), I have a mate who's been on the list for 12 years. Granted there are a lot of 'day fans' but there are also the lot who bleed United. I've heard many fans say every year that they hope we finish 3rd in the Champions League group stage so that we could play in the UEFA Cup and the day trippers would f**k off and the real ones would stay.

On your other point, Newcastle fans are awfully poor for a club with such a good stadium. I've been to St James' Park and there are always hundreds of empty seats, and they boo the team off after a bad display. When we lost 3-1 to you lot at the last Premiership game at OT in 2005, there were still 67,000 to applaud the lads off the pitch and hear Fergie's end of season speech. Where else would you see that? Our away fans sing for 90 minutes every game, and we constantly outsing the home support, even when we're losing. Those are the 'hardcore' fans Keano and Fergie spoke about, the same fans that would fill OT if we got relegated. I challenge you to find me a better set of supporters than United's away army, and I'd say that even without my red tinted specs on.