Niall1905

Nice long outing for these lot last night, looked like some tired legs out there. Although some of the big boys came off at full time. Realistically, regardless of the mental or physical knock on effects of last night, this is going to be all about which Chelsea turn up on the weekend.

Does anyone find it strange how quick Poch is to backtrack on certain comments or rephrase questions to avoid being seen as talking down on the owners. It could just be as English isn't his first language but there were a couple of times last night in the sky interview and in the presser after that he took a question the completely different way just to avoid slandering the owners. The example in mind was Carragher asking him if the penalty situation today was an example of comments he made in the week of needing to bring in more experience. Rather than answer the question, Poch spent the entire answer explaining how it hasn't been decided that we need more experience, that there is a process we will follow in the summer and it will be agreed with the sporting directors and that he is very happy. Just seemed like a strange, very obvious step away. Something I think hes done a few times this year, another being when he'd been quoted as wanting to bring in some players in January but then the next press conference said he was happy with the squad as it is.

Wow, great result. It really felt like the first time in about 2 years that i've been able to enjoy the whole 90 minutes of a match. Palmer is fantastic, not much more needs saying really. Maybe he could have given up the penalty but I do like the killer instinct in him to want more, especially given hes now in the golden boot race. The other 2 didn't deserve it anyway based on how they behaved, but i'll get to that. I thought Caicedo was immense. Aggresive, timed his tackles well. Similarly to Kante, he has the tendency to chase a tackle a bit too far up the pitch sometimes but I think thats always going to happen when you're looking to be as aggressive in the press as he is. I liked the Madueke and Mudryk performances. Madueke is very direct if not slightly predictable but its exactly what we need. I really enjoyed Mudryks game. I think hes always going to be a bit frustrating but he creates moments that others can't with his pace, pulled off a couple of outrageous passes too. Fair play to Gallagher, think he did a good job. As did the defence. Maybe on another day we may have been punished for some bits of defending but they did what was needed and the clean sheet made the scoreline even better. Regarding the penalty situation, theres a couple of ways to see it. Initially, its nice to see people wanting to step up. Dele made a comment after the game that its bad because they didnt want to step up in the last minute against United but I don't agree. Thats the exact moment to fall into rank and let Palmer focus. I don't hate that they wanted to take it and I can understand thinking Palmer would let them, given hes already scored 3. The issue comes when they don't back down and let it escalate. Ironically, I think Jackson was arguing for Madueke to be able to take it. Jackson and Madueke initially got heated between the 2 of them and Madueke won. Then, after a bit of resistance, Madueke looked to concede to Palmer and Jackson looked to take an issue with it. If they have a bit of back and forth and then back down then theres no story but Jackson lost his head (again) and it turns into something bigger. Hopefully Poch has sorted it out and we can push on to the end of the season without any sort of hangover from it. Despite how hard we keep trying to blow it, the top 6 is still on.

Probably should have thought about it before signing the 7 year contract 🤣 Realistically though, it is going to be something to consider in a year or two if we continue to bob around in mid table. Not in anyway saying Cole would be the type to, but you can imagine some of these other younger players with their over inflated ego's start kicking off when they realise we're still sh*te but wont let them leave for less than 80m becuase theres still 6 years left on their contract, despite them being the reason we are still sh*te. Palmer more specifically, given that hes just been a part of a treble winning squad, would probably be content with being the focal point of a team, getting minutes and pushing his way into the England team for a few years. Hopefully we have sorted our lives out by then.

Honestly don't know where to go from here. Feels like we are the only team in the world who could get a result in the manner that we did on Thursday, go and play the worst team in the league 3 days later and look like we havent won a game in decades. I'm not in love with the idea of getting rid of him, almost exlusively because I don't believe anyone better would take the job/that our board would be competant enough to pick them. But getting 2 points out of Burnley and Sheff U is just outrageous. Sheff in particular have been a punching bag for most of the year. My only comfort in life is that United seem to be the ones about to make the mistake of hiring Southgate when they bullet the bald fraud, so at least that sh*theap is going to happen to someone else.

Or, we turn RB Gusto into LB Gusto and look for another RB Gusto. But then RB Gusto is Gusto who is LB Gusto who is RB Gusto who is LB Gusto. That said, I like RB Gusto and LB Gusto which makes Me Gusto. But Me Gusto means I am Gusto... Problem solved, sign me up. I need more sleep.

Serie A league which seems horrednously weak and got to a chamipons league final after beating Porto, Benfica and AC Milan. Simeone, yeah has historically done well. But he's literally never left Madrid, plays horrible football and has spent over 1.2 billion as the manager of an underdog. I'm not going to sit and argue that De Zerbi or anyone we are currently linked to are better or worse, but my genuine opinion and my main reason for being hesitant about Poch leaving is that, other than Klopp, there arent going to be any top managers out of work or availble this summer. Anyone else is a gamble of similar proportion to keeping Poch for another year.

You say that as if Inzaghi and Simeone are slam dunk successes

I think there is a world where our plan does work, but I don't think its just a case of needing the fans to wait and let it happen. We've spent huge, gone almost all in (in terms of ffp) on a group of younger players that could end up succeeeding, but aslo could not. So there is a ticking clock in terms of finances, we'll need to be achieving more than we currently are long term to keep covering book costs and potentially further upgrading costs. This will relate to prize money as well as sponsorships. We've supposedly addressed some wage bill issues which is a positive, but our lovely 8 year contracts for half our squad means that year to year we are already tied up largely FFP wise. We also have a group of successful buys, within the current number of dissapointments, that aren't going to wait years for us to sort it out. Palmer for exampe, if we are still in the abyss in 2/3 years, will likely be looking to take the next step. Fernandez, Nkunku etc, arent just going to wait around forever for us to sort ourselves out. This would be hard to take, given that if we are still in the abyss in 2/3 years then theyre likely part of the problem, but football often doesnt work that way and there would be plenty of suitors for them at a cut price. If this phase doesn't end successfully, then we enter the realms of Liverpool pre Klopp, United Post Fergie, where we are going to need a huge effort to be considered a title contender, top top English side. Where we start again, probably not being able to draw top top talents but having to be much more strategic and build our way up again. Which would likely feel the same as this now, but with less money spent. So I agree with you in general, our plan can work, it still might. But these types of projects are normally made easier to palate when there are a group of established players, capable of keeping it ticking over whilst the new group are blooded in. A long term project used to mean settling for a few years challenging for top 4, not top half.

Just watching the Obi Mikel podcast, they've got Petr on there this week and he's made a point which pretty much sums up where the new owners have gone wrong and also makes you wish he stuck around to warn them off it. They're discussing how young players settle in at new clubs compared to older/more experienced players and how Mikel himself did really well under a lot of pressure after the United scenario. But Petr highlighted how he was able to be a passenger whilst he settled in and found his feet, as there were many drivers in the squad. Petr said that when you're a young player, you're never the driver of the team, you're always the passenger. The should already be drivers in the team that you follow. Then, as you get older, you might become a driver. Some passengers become drivers quicker than others and some don't ever become drivers. Its exactly what we have, a team of passengers with little to no recognised drivers to learn from. You can see players like Enzo and Palmer becoming drivers in the future, even with their winning experience so far before coming to us they're not there yet. But I think it also adds to why many haven't been able to settle in. Its hard to settle when everyone else is trying to settle too. Wish they'd get big Pete and a few of the others back in advisory roles to help with the sh*t heap we are in currently.

Steven Gerrard

I meant more that, my post was in response to people slating Caicedo's performances in comparison to players like Endo and Macallister. For which I would credit Klopp, more than complain about Caicedo and his ability. I only referenced Poch as the manager Caicedo is working with, being inferiror to Klopp. So I don't see how Poch comparing himself to Klopp is relevant. I agree, he shouldnt do it. But its not the point I am making.

Sorry, do you mean stick with Poch or stick with Caicedo? My post is in support of Caicedo, not Poch. He's being compared to players that have signed for one of the best managers in the world, whos strength is getting the best out of players.

Yeah he probably should. Not really got much to do with Caicedo though does it?

I mean, Einstein knew his stuff back in the day. Don't know if I'd get him to build a title winning squad though.

Maybe full tux and top hat to show how magic he is. Can't remember calling it a priority though.

Think thats a bit harsh. If the bloke has managed to help in any way to get England teams turning up at Major Tournaments then he can't do much damage surely. I'd probably say the only thing I would give Southgate credit for with England is creating a better culture and environment.

My confusion with the daylight rule, is that have you got to see daylight all the way down? Because if the defender is leaning one way and the attacker the other, I would be able to see daylight, but the attackers head could be behind the players feet, so would be further away from the goal from him. I like Wengers more recent suggestion, that the attacker only has to keep a part of the body onside to be deemed as onside. So keep a trailing leg or fooot or something. You would still get marginal decisions, but there are always going to be marginal decisions with offside. Even if you allowed a 5cm buffer to say, if its in that then hes still onside, because then we would move it to, well he was marginally outside of the buffer. I just like the idea that if the emphasis is on the attacker to keep a part of him onside, its an advantage to him. So any marginal decision is their inability to keep any part of their body onside, rather than a tiny bit of their toe being offside.

I think what a lot of people are failing to accept and acknowledge is that Klopp is arguably the 2nd best manager in the world right now and has been for some time. One of his main strengths, alongside being good tactically, is what he gets out of players. For the most part, players that have gone to liverpool in recent years have hit the heights you would expect, if not gone further. f**k, he made Henderson look good for a period of time. Nunez is the first one I can think of to get stick as being a flop and even his numbers recently stand up to scrutiny. Comparing Caicedo to Endo and McAllistar now might make it seem like we got the sh*te end of the deal. Lets see at the end of next year. I truly believe that Klopp and his system is that good, that there are going to be a good chunk of players that are widely regarded as great buys for them right now, that will end up dropping off. Yes Caicedo could be doing more and Poch should be getting more out of him, but its not a fair and equal comparison with any Liverpool player right now. In the same way that some of the players that Mourinho (particularly in his second stint) and Conte got some pretty average players to be big parts of a title winning squad. Victor Moses is a name that springs to mind. We had Mourinho when he was the best, Conte when he was one of the best. Poch simply isn't one of the best right now. I think hes doing an okay job at bringing the players to a better level than last year, but he hasn't transformed anyone into a world beater in the way that Klopp seems to get players going.

It really is the only thing to hold onto given the current mess we are in. I can't comprehend in my head how they can't have to find a way to return us to the top, at least just in time to sell us after 10 years. They ultimately answer to their investors and, no matter how much the overal value of football teams increases in that time, they wont return anything but a massive loss if we are a mid table club in financial dissarray with an old stadium in 8 years time. The project they are pushing now has fans patience running thin, they probably don't care much for that really. However, their investors will start to care soon, which could see a shift in philosphy and hopefully some smarter decisions being made higher up. We've got to be one of their worst preforming investments right now, with very rich and powerful people watching their money dissapear. Even if we don't represent a signficiant part of their portfolio, the rich get rich because they don't accept failure. Even if we were talking thousands and not billions, its a suggestion of incompentance that Clearlake will want rectified. Boehly and Eghbali didn't get to where they are without understanding business. You don't have to be a subject specialist to run the business correctly, you just have to know how to put the right people in the right place. Sadly, I think they banked on having Marina and Petr to stay and carry on working until they could get their own guys in, which when they didnt, meant they played Sporting Directors whilst they looked for their own and caused some serious damage. When the new guys came in, sure some more mistakes have been made, but we've been left playing catch up and trying to patch issues ever since. I really believe they'll get it right eventually, but i'm worried about the damage that gets done along the way.

Yeah I agree, but from a fans perspective I think we find out a lot about the team tonight. If, as you worry, it is the latter then we know that theres nothing there and it confirms all of our fears that they are weak and lacking leadership and direction. If they come out and put a performance in, it will give a bit of hope that they're going to use Sunday to move forward and build some character. Another quater final would be nothing to scoff at, but these players need to start learning how to win despite potential excuse or adversity.

I did, and whilst I can understand the confusion Birsight is right. The linesman doesn't push his arm down to suggest he thinks its onside whilst in play, he does nothing. Linesmen always run like that to avoid the flag waving around, which it would if he pumped his arms by his side like a normal running motion would. He'll be in direct comms with the ref at that point probably saying he thinks its offisde but letting play continue because its tight and we have var. The ball goes in the net, Sterling begins to celebrate but looks over and stops before just running back into postion. The liverpool fans jeer. They both dont do that unless its flagged as offside by the lino. The camera the cuts to the linesmen who has now popped his flag down and is running back to where on the pitch he believes the offisde is, but the camera cuts before he extends his arm to show this. The main travesty in all of this is the angle shown on TV. You can clearly see the offside from the original camera angle. How the angle they ended up using was deemed as the best in Wembley which must have countless different cameras, I will never know

Yeah I second this, purely from personal experience. I snapped my ACL as a teenager playing 5 a side, had the reconstruction and physio to fix it but could never properly throw myself into the game the way I did before, particularly when it came to sharp turns. I would take an extra touch when cutting inside to stagger the movement, rather than one motion. I would also find I would begin to slow down much sooner when coming to the end of sprinting after a ball to make sure I didn't come to a sharp halt, which led to defenders catching up much more easily. That said, im sure (or at least Id hope) that the surgery and physio the players recieve is much better than what I got on the NHS.

I agree that we shouldn't settle for mediocracy, but the league Klopp finished 8th in was much weaker than the league today. (So weak that the bloke we're all arguing about almost managed to win it)

Isn't any easier to take this morning. Again, I can't believe the chances that we missed in normal time to win it. We just don't have it in us anymore sadly. Poch's percieved spursyness isnt helping, but we had this issue under Tuchel too, CL win aside. Even in that game Pulisic missed a sitter to wrap the game up that almost cost us with Mahrez's close call right at the end. Gallaghers miss yesterday was remeniscent of mounts misses in the Carabao under TT against the same sh*te as yesterday. Two young, academy players that play their heart out for the shirt but defentily raise doubts over their quality (or at least have caused fan debates). The extra time shambles was the real exposee on the managers. I don't believe Poch sent them out to go for penalties, I think his comments have been taken out of context. But he clearly didn't inspire/encourage the alternative. We were growing as normal time finished and then completely lost our bottle. Understandable that a young team would do that, but less understandable considering their team was also young and ended up stepping up. I really don't know how we fix it. We don't have any winners (maybe t silva but hes off this summer). We have players that have won, but they're not winners. You can buy winners, but winners want to win and we don't provide much prospect of that right now. It feels like we need a complete culture reset. I think we need to avoid falling into the Man United trap of spending the next 10 years searching for a replica of what we had. United constantly demand and compare what they have to the fergie years but football has moved on. If we do chase what we had, Mourinho v3 is the only option. He probably would have won that game yesterday. But if we want to move forward, I dont know.