Niall1905

f**k me we made hard work of that. But in a strange way, it’s the sort of thing that might actually build some backbone in this team. They were beginning to sh*t the bed against 9 men but ended up getting it done. All season we have found a way to not do so, so who knows!

I'd be shocked if the length he has already been out hasn't been to take that extended period into account. You are right about how he looked though, I wouldn't be suprised if there is a mental block there through the fear of more injury.

Bit of a depressing one in the end. Not going to comment much on the overall game, nothing that we haven't seen already this year. Few player specific observations; - Palmer is great. Him playing in the 10 first half was outstanding. However with Sterling coming inside, Gallagher pushing on and Jackson dropping in, it became very congested. I'd have preferred sterling to stay wide, allowing Cucu to arrive late centrally if needed and Jackson to be constantly moving across the back three looking for space. - Jackson struggles against low blocks. He doesn't seem to move intelligently enough to create space unless the line is high/we are countering. He also offers nothing in the air. Money on an alternative in January seems like the only way. Broja can't stay fit long enough to keep him on his toes. - Gallagher is shutting up a large amount of the fanbase, including me. I can't fault him to be honest, looked good in tight spaces, worked hard and actually looked bothered. His ability to sit deeper if needed makes him vital for the squad moving forward. There's no way of hiding it, its a set back we should have avoided. But we've got to kick on and get some big results now to turn it around.

He'll be fine, probably a few more shorter cameos given our current run of games but once the fixtures ease up a bit hopefully he gets a bit more time off the bench when it eases up.

Conflicting emotions really, most people on this forum would have taken a point against arsenal a month ago and probably before the game. Yes we were probably a bit too negative after the second goal and we’ve got to improve on it, but it’s easy to naturally take less risks given the difference in the last 12 months for each side. Take the point, hopefully keep some momentum and keep rolling.

Clubs 100% push narratives and encourage players to big them up when they sign, we've probably done it ourselves many times. But the video of him being toured around Old Trafford and their training ground, with him and his old man saying how big time and proper it was, was something completely different. Coupled with the monotone 'farewell' video we got, he can do one. No matter what the club have supposedly done to him, nothing about his actions when leaving suggest he was 'proper chels' as JT suggests.

Aye, I agree. Wouldn't want him within 100 miles of the bridge. Just pointing out that those dismissing his ability are wide of the mark. Granted he thinks he's way better than he actually is, but to think he hasn't been good/great at times in his career is crazy.

No idea where you are getting your numbers there, looks like you are looking at calendar years rather than seasons. He scored 25 in his last season at Everton, coupled with 18 the season before and 17 when on loan at West Brom. Not saying I would have him back either but the slander the bloke gets because of how he's ended up is crazy.

Generally optimistic about this run, after dreading it 2 weeks ago. I think we're set up to cause problems for teams willing to get at us. I think our midfield, now that its a bit more settled, can give all of the above teams a problem. If Sterling and Mudryk can keep form, with Palmer playing as he is then that more than enough to do damage. Hopefully Jackson and Broja can keep pushing each other for the central position. If you put the list in the context of this season, Newcastle are going to blow themselves out churning out performances like the PSG one in Europe. They won't be able to maintain that level of effort twice a week. United are worse than us. Brighton are increasingly inconsistent and Spurs will eventually have a rough patch. It might not be the worst time to have to face each of them. We've had our worse start in years and we're only 5 points off CL places. Yes the fixtures have been on the easy side but there's still a long way to go.

Got a feeling we're going to give them a game here. I think the opportunity to make a statement suits our team rather than the expectation to preform, which has been the way against the lower teams so far this year. I really think the Caicedo, Enzo, Gallagher midfield causes problems for most in the league, especially the top 6 that will want to play through them. It's going to be on how clinical the front 3 can be. I also think our win against Burnley is more ** than their win against City. They've had our number a bit over the last few years, they'd have been dialled in and confident regardless. Would have been a worry to face them whilst also trying to pick up the pieces after another false dawn, but there's a bit of momentum to ride now. Can't demand a win, but we should be looking for a draw minimum at home.

Had a watch back on the app yesterday, really great to see a convincing win going into the break. Loads of positives, thought Caicedo was great. Sterling obviously fantastic. Palmer offers us something completely different and much needed. Thought Colwill looked wobbly in the first half, but all of our young players are going to have the odd bad game in them. What's important is that it went unpunished as he's been great this year so hopefully he just bounces back.

It is though. I am talking about a failure in process, not a lack of integrity. Mike Dean and, as you say, many others have probably influenced games for a wide range of reasons. This has been happening long before VAR. Its a separate issue that needs addressing but it isn't the same as this. There is no way to nail a referee on doing that unless they openly admit it. For this offside, the process of VAR understanding the on field decision, checking it and relaying what they understand to be the correct decision to the referee completely failed. This is not a subjective decision that can be swayed by bias or backing up a friend. It is a pure fact that they botched up because they are bad at their job. It cannot be compared to any other decision, unless we know that categorically in that moment the referee was trying to give one decision and ended up giving the opposite. The fact of the matter is, we were effected by something you cannot mitigate for. There is no way to ensure that type of decision doesnt happen again. Yes we should have kicked up a fuss, but there isn't really a way to stop it. But for the offside, VAR can introduce new processes that should be followed on each review and if a similar occurrence happens. No doubt Klopp is just looking for some favourable decisions further down the line but at least it might initiate some form of procedural change.

I'd go with Jackson from the start for this, Broja looked like he was pushed to the very limit against Fulham in terms of playing time. Would be good to make sure he is recovered fully and maybe look to give him half an hour or so. Other than that, I would keep it the same as against Fulham if we can.

Didn't say anything was worse or better than anything. What I'm saying is Liverpool's current situation is only comparable to the Goal Line Technology not working and avoiding a goal being given. It's the only case where VAR officials have come to a decision but not communicated that to the on field refs. Dean being a twat and admitting that he was swayed during the game but not admitting to it until months later after he retired is completely different. Of course deliberately misleading is worse. Arguably its the clubs fault for not banging the drum loud enough when the comments came out. At least Liverpool have the balls to keep the pressure on. But this is the whole point. Football fans are so obsessed with 'one upping' each other on who's been most hard done by that they ignore the fact that no one should be hard done by. Lets all argue over others fans being lucky and that they'd be worse of if x, y or z happened. PGMOL will love that, because although left in a bad light, they get left to carry on f**king up whilst we do nothing but laugh at Liverpool. Officiating in the country is rotten to the core. The same inept pricks that were awful in their day are now in control of deciding how new technology is used now. Webb, who has never used VAR, is in charge of telling refs how to use VAR. It all needs ripping out and starting again. There is a reason why the only person who knew what was going on and had control in that VAR room was a graduate only responsible for controlling the tech.

Yeah, for once, Liverpool fans acting as if they’re the only ones to be wronged is justified. The only comparible situation is the goal line tech not working meaning the goal wasn’t given. In no way do I think the match should be replayed but rival fans and clubs should be backing Liverpool standing up to PGMOL here. This isn’t a bad call. This is them getting the call right but providing the wrong information. It’s not a subjective decision that ended up being questioned, but a fact that lack of reasonable process prevented from being used. We’ve been f**ked down the years, against that mob more than once. But this is an unprecedented level of f**k up.

"Lets just say we won't be short of Chunky Monkey for the next month"

1 Match ban, bet he's gutted he'll miss the weekend

Apologies if I am repeating what is already said but reading some of the pundit/journalist reaction to the Liverpool/Spurs offside incident has me riled. There is so much comparison between decisions that have and haven't been given in the past, even ours against Liverpool where Lukaku was given offside when it looked like he was on, but they are missing the point so much. This isn't a subjective call, this isn't even a line being a pixel away from a players shoulder or from a weird camera angle. This is a complete breakdown in communication where VAR knew the answer and the referee gave a different one. This 'mistake' has put on massive spotlight on what I think the biggest issue VAR faces, they have NO procedure on how a check should be carried out. Its different every single time a decision goes to VAR. Every time I watch Rugby, there is a set process that is followed. For tries, if there is debate, the referee initiates contact with TMO by saying "Onfield decision is xyz, not sure on grounding/not sure on forward pass etc" TMO then repeat that to confirm and also add anything else that they will be checking. As they check each aspect, they confirm what has been checked, its outcome and what they are checking next. It is a systematic process that is uniformly followed every time so that the referee can confidently relay to players etc the current situation. For red/yellow cards, the referee is alerted and told to halt the game. They explain exactly what is being checked and show the referee on the big screen. He provides his decision and asks if they agree. They either confirm (or like they did this weekend, point out where he may be wrong) and the decision is given. When giving a decision the referee calls both captains over, fully explains his reasoning and the players have to respect it based on the explanation provided. We know all of the above because the replays are shown in stadiums as well as TV having access to TMO and Referees Mic. The entire process is transparent and the referee communicates his decision to both TMO and the teams captains before giving the decision on field. There is absolutely nothing above that cannot be done in premier league. Referee's, whilst being sh*t, are completely mismanaged and left to try and control chaos. They have been given one of the most powerful tools with no user manual and, as expected, it is being used so badly that they are now even not able to clearly say to each other when a goal is offside or not. They are trying to rush decisions as to not get berated for ruining the game, the decisions are made with no transparency or explanation to the captains etc and it is all falling apart. I don't care what anyone says, top level football needs video referees. If used correctly, it would benefit the game beyond compare. But we are so far away from competent use that they'll get rid of it before they make it better.

It'll be one game if anything. Think Van Dijk got an extra game added to his red card for his reaction. As you said, anything more and we should be having words.

Palmer all day long is correct. But I do think Cucurella did better than you're crediting him for. Mitoma is one of the best wingers in the league at the moment so is obviously going to get some joy out of him but I thought he did a decent job. He's also got a real intensity and desire that does sometimes spill into recklessness. But on the back of the last couple of performances that intensity was good to see.

I'm as much behind 'trusting the process' as anyone and there definitely is a need to differentiate between this season and last but we are genuinely lucky that Luton, Sheffield United and Burnley are in the league this year as all look capable of setting very low points totals My main concern is our fixtures in late October and through November. We have it rough. The 'Easy' start looked like a blessing at first as a way to build momentum but given we haven't, it makes for scary reading. If we continue as we are we aren't getting anything from those games and could be right down there going into Christmas. In the same way that teams can ride momentum and end up finishing higher than expected, if we find ourselves scrapping still at that point, its a huge psychological barrier to get over. But, as I said at the start, its not fair to contextualise our struggles using last seasons form anymore. The turnover in players and staff have been huge. Its the players and managers responsibility to start fresh and kick on but the fans need to (try to) do the same.

I agree but I also think the players who reach the very very top have an arrogance and confidence that gets them there. Not necessarily in their behaviour but more so in their game. Hazard came into a much more stable set up, but it was still a Di Matteo led Chelsea undergoing a transition away from the 'old guard' at the time. Yet from the very first game Hazard played like he belonged, he looked like he knew he deserved to be there. I thought Mudryk would have the same vibe but he doesn't at this point. And you could argue that its easier to become the 'main man' in a squad where there currently aren't any (Compared to Hazard competing with the previously mentioned greatest ever players). But I do agree in general, its hard to expect his best when we are so poor right now. And I do honestly think he is growing in every game we see him.

100%. We need wins. Any extra games we can have to develop some sort of form or cohesion in the squad are vital. I don't even think we should be rotating in the way you would expect for the cup. Only rotation should be to try something new we expect to use in the league e.g playing well. Sadly for those (Very) youngsters on the periphery that may normally have been given some game time in the cup, I can't see it being on the cards this year. My main hope is that we may get a look at a back 4 without Silva. I'm in no way saying he is solely responsible for our form, but we're at a point where we need to see how we defend without him. He'll be one that could do without 2 games a week so hopefully we see Colwill back in the middle and a natural LB playing.

Ah Friday, almost another weekend is upon us for the Chels to ruin! 😆 Not sure what the injury situation is regarding a few but id go with; Sanchez Gusto - Disasi - Colwill - Chilwell Enzo - Caicedo Sterling - Palmer - Mudryk Jackson I think Silva slows us down too much playing out at the moment, and moving Villa before they get set is going to be vital. Caicedo probably not fit, throw Ugo in if he's not. Palmer and Jackson goals, Mudryk masterclass. 3-2 villa.

Would love Tuchel and Kane to put a beating on United tonight, could do with a United crisis to take the heat off of us a bit.