Excuses, excuses

[Lofty]

There are none.

Excuse number One: "if we had a winger, if we had more pace". Ashley Cole has pace, Bosingwa has pace, even Kalou and Anelka have pace. If this is the best that those defending Scolari can come up with, then it shows up Scolari as a one trick pony who can't manage a side that doesn't fit exactly his idea of what a football team should be. No plan B, no plan C, and a plan A that patently doesn't work with the current crop of players.

These players, remember were playing as a team not so long ago. They were also scoring goals, knew how to defend set pieces and were actually capable of winning games.

Excuse Number Two: It's an aging squad. This is linked to the lack of pace mentioned above. Older players are slower. Let me see now .. how long ago was the Champions League final? Around 8 months. So in 8 months, a squad that came within a whisker of deservedly winning the Champions League, is suddenly too old to compete at anywhere near the same level?

Excuse Number Three: Scolari needs time. But Scolari hasn't got time. He's only here for a couple, three years at most. He looked to have started well, but now seems to have lost the plot, lost the dressing room, lost the faith of many of the fans. Given time, it is expected that Scolari's relationship with the players would improve. However, going by their general demeanour, the reverse is the case - Scolari, as I stated in another thread, is our equivalent of Juande Ramos - he may be experienced, he may be talented, but that experience and that talent do NOT suit the Premier League.

Excuse Number Four: The players are a disgrace. Juande Ramos again. Over in N17, it was blatantly apparent to all and sundry that the players did not want to play for Ramos, and it looks to me that exactly the same thing is happening with Scolari at Chelsea. Motivation, organisation, tactics: these are all integral to the manager's job description. The players are poorly motivated, disorganised, and tactically all over the place. And that is down to ... T H E M A N A G E R

Excuse Number Five: Injuries. In particular, Essien has been out for most of the season. When he returns, it'll take him some time to play himself back to match fitness. And yet people seem to be looking at Essien's return as some kind of turning point. Not going to happen. Not under Scolari. And weren't the same kind of noises being made about Drogba when he was injured? " We need Drogba", people were saying. So Drogba's back, looking like he doesn't want to play for the team, and in particular for Scolari. Drogba might be all kinds of twat, and may very well need careful handling. Or not, I don't know. What I do know is that Drogba looks less interested in playing for Scolari than he ever did under Mourinho or Grant. But this is besides the point. We have a strong squad, on paper at least, that is not being used to best effect (how's that for an understatement?) by Scolari.

We have a poorly organised, poorly motivated squad full of talented experienced internationals who can barely manage a shot on target in 90 minutes - yesterday is not the first time it's gone this way, not by a long way. This one pace football we're playing - this is the way Scolari has got the team playing - no wonder they're not happy with it - it's blatantly obvious that it simply does not work.

Blame Abramovich, the board, whoever you like, for appointing Scolari in the first place, but it is surely blatantly obvious, that this appointment was a mistake, that his continued presence as manager is detremental to both the long and short term future of the club, and the sooner this mistake is rectified, the better.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Lofty

[BLUENUT]

Excuse Number Five:

Drogba and Anelka can't play together. Regardless of the fact Anelka could play off the far lesser target-man Kevin Davies. And if this truely was the case, and we started the season with an injured Drogba, remember, why loan out Pizzaro, and let Sheva and SWP leave the club - And sign no replacement?

Excuse Number Six:

We have been unlucky.

I'm from the school of thought where sides make their own luck, and sometimes their hard work is rewarded.

[PloKoon13]

Agreed, but I have two problems with dumping Scolari:

-Cost

-Replacements?

We could use the £7.5 million we might use paying him off to get a pacy left-footer...

[Lofty]

In an ideal world, Scolari wouldn't get a penny in compensation: he'd be booted out for failure to keep his side of the contract. However, in this day and age, that just ain't gonna happen.

What concerns me more is the possibility that we might not qualify for next year's Champions League - in financial terms, this would be far damaging than any compensation awarded to Scolari, and this is putting aside any questions of ambition, status, and all the rest of it.

[Chippy]

There are none.

Lofty I will try and offer some excuses up for the bloke, I like to call them mitigating circumstances and really am only defending him as I think sacking him now would cause more harm than good but here goes.

Excuse number One: "if we had a winger, if we had more pace". Ashley Cole has pace, Bosingwa has pace, even Kalou and Anelka have pace. If this is the best that those defending Scolari can come up with, then it shows up Scolari as a one trick pony who can't manage a side that doesn't fit exactly his idea of what a football team should be. No plan B, no plan C, and a plan A that patently doesn't work with the current crop of players.

You just answered this yourself when you said "if we had a winger" I like the thought of using Bos as a right winger and have said it many times but I would also say that Scolari is in a position to judge if he thinks he would do better than the options he's trying now and he thinks not,

Bos and Ashley Cole are not wingers, and to put them in ahead of Joe Cole or Malouda on the wings would be brave.

Kalou has been used and not to good effct the same as Anelka who if he plays him wide we all say he needs to be in the middle,

I dont think we have a very changable team, they dont have the pace for 4-4-2 and any team with Drogba in in the mood he's in may as well have ten men.

These players, remember were playing as a team not so long ago. They were also scoring goals, knew how to defend set pieces and were actually capable of winning games.

Excuse Number Two: It's an aging squad. This is linked to the lack of pace mentioned above. Older players are slower. Let me see now .. how long ago was the Champions League final? Around 8 months. So in 8 months, a squad that came within a whisker of deservedly winning the Champions League, is suddenly too old to compete at anywhere near the same level?

The way Grant had the team playing was very Mourinhoesque, he done well with it but was slated on here and sacked by Abramovich, Scolari has likely been given an agenda to play more attacking and this is where our pace is costing us far more, every time our fullbacks bomb forward (our only real pace) we are at risk and the more they tire themselves doing what two pacy wingers should be helping them do the more the defence looks ragged.

Excuse Number Three: Scolari needs time. But Scolari hasn't got time. He's only here for a couple, three years at most. He looked to have started well, but now seems to have lost the plot, lost the dressing room, lost the faith of many of the fans. Given time, it is expected that Scolari's relationship with the players would improve. However, going by their general demeanour, the reverse is the case - Scolari, as I stated in another thread, is our equivalent of Juande Ramos - he may be experienced, he may be talented, but that experience and that talent do NOT suit the Premier League.

These are all things that seem to be, for all we know the teams demeanour could be a mixture of things including Drogba mouthing off and generally looking uninterested when they all know we are badly in nedd of him at his best, it could just run through the team.

I know Scolari should sort it out if it's anything to do with that but I don't doubt he keeps hoping the man turns it round as it could save our season.

Excuse Number Four: The players are a disgrace. Juande Ramos again. Over in N17, it was blatantly apparent to all and sundry that the players did not want to play for Ramos, and it looks to me that exactly the same thing is happening with Scolari at Chelsea. Motivation, organisation, tactics: these are all integral to the manager's job description. The players are poorly motivated, disorganised, and tactically all over the place. And that is down to ... T H E M A N A G E R

People said all the same about the players under Grant, but with the defensive style it never caused as much concern because we kept the opposition out a bit more, as you said the team made the CL final and for over half the game looked the better team.

Excuse Number Five: Injuries. In particular, Essien has been out for most of the season. When he returns, it'll take him some time to play himself back to match fitness. And yet people seem to be looking at Essien's return as some kind of turning point. Not going to happen. Not under Scolari. And weren't the same kind of noises being made about Drogba when he was injured? " We need Drogba", people were saying. So Drogba's back, looking like he doesn't want to play for the team, and in particular for Scolari. Drogba might be all kinds of twat, and may very well need careful handling. Or not, I don't know. What I do know is that Drogba looks less interested in playing for Scolari than he ever did under Mourinho or Grant. But this is besides the point. We have a strong squad, on paper at least, that is not being used to best effect (how's that for an understatement?) by Scolari.

You're dead right, Essien is sorely missed but wont be back in time or in the form to have a big say in what happens, and yes we all said if we get Drogba back it will be a big help, I still say that..if we do it will..have you seen him? he bares no resemblence to the Drogba we were waiting for..Scolaris fault?

We have a poorly organised, poorly motivated squad full of talented experienced internationals who can barely manage a shot on target in 90 minutes - yesterday is not the first time it's gone this way, not by a long way. This one pace football we're playing - this is the way Scolari has got the team playing - no wonder they're not happy with it - it's blatantly obvious that it simply does not work.

Right again we have a good squad but it's an unbalanced Squad, we have failed to create chances in maybe 3 or 4 games this season and one of those we played half of it with ten men. it is one paced and it is not working but I still feel Scolari is too scared to play defensive and that is the best way for this team.

Blame Abramovich, the board, whoever you like, for appointing Scolari in the first place, but it is surely blatantly obvious, that this appointment was a mistake, that his continued presence as manager is detremental to both the long and short term future of the club, and the sooner this mistake is rectified, the better.

I agree appointing Scolari was a huge mistake, Sacking Grant was a mistake as he knew this team and would have known what players to compliment it with.

To sack him and bring in somebody who was only ever going to be short term is madness,

a manger needs to be in place that can have a five year or more plan and be confident of being allowed the time to implement it.

I can't see that happening and that's why I would leave Scolari to carry on at least for the season in the hope we qualify for the CL again and then unless we have greatly improved, bring someone in with a vision for the future.

We would have to be patient and not expect too much though...it would be fun on here.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Chippy

[ethicalstrategy]

I think we are seeing something that is quite common. Scolari comes in and changes eveything and for a while it works well and so everyone is onside with it. But as soon as things don't go so well the doubts start to creep in. I think we are now at the stage where the players, and I mean the key players - Lampard, Terry, Drogba, maybe even Cech - are not convinced about the way Scolari wants us to play. As a consequence confidence has fallen and the crisp, incisive passing and movement that was so effective at the start of the season has disappeared. You then start to hear murmurings of discontent from the dressing room - we aren't training hard enough etc, etc.

Unfortunately, if the manager loses the faith of this players then there are really only two outcomes. Either the players get changed or the manager does and normally it is the manager.

I'm giving it about 3 or 4 matches and if we lose at Liverpool and Villa then Scolari will be history.

(It wasn't sacking Grant that was the mistake, it was sacking Mourinho, or rather not sacking him as that was inevitable in the circumstances, but letting the situation arise where it was no longer tenable for him to stay.)

[BLUENUT]

I think we are seeing something that is quite common. Scolari comes in and changes eveything and for a while it works well and so everyone is onside with it. But as soon as things don't go so well the doubts start to creep in. I think we are now at the stage where the players, and I mean the key players - Lampard, Terry, Drogba, maybe even Cech - are not convinced about the way Scolari wants us to play. As a consequence confidence has fallen and the crisp, incisive passing and movement that was so effective at the start of the season has disappeared. You then start to hear murmurings of discontent from the dressing room - we aren't training hard enough etc, etc.

Unfortunately, if the manager loses the faith of this players then there are really only two outcomes. Either the players get changed or the manager does and normally it is the manager.

I'm giving it about 3 or 4 matches and if we lose at Liverpool and Villa then Scolari will be history.

(It wasn't sacking Grant that was the mistake, it was sacking Mourinho, or rather not sacking him as that was inevitable in the circumstances, but letting the situation arise where it was no longer tenable for him to stay.)

The biggest problem from now and the start of the season is the opposition know how to combat the way we play, and more worringly our manager doesn't know how to mix it up or change our formation.......just more excuses

[ethicalstrategy]

I wasn't making excuses, just saying what I see happening.

You should know that I was never a believer that free flowing attacking football (not that we have seen much of it recently) was ever likely to win anything. It always has been easier to stop a team playing, particularly for the better teams.

[Chippy]

Unfortunately, if the manager loses the faith of this players then there are really only two outcomes. Either the players get changed or the manager does and normally it is the manager.

I'm giving it about 3 or 4 matches and if we lose at Liverpool and Villa then Scolari will be history.

(It wasn't sacking Grant that was the mistake, it was sacking Mourinho, or rather not sacking him as that was inevitable in the circumstances, but letting the situation arise where it was no longer tenable for him to stay.)

When I said sacking Grant was a mistake, I stand by it, Given the Job and given what he achieved I still believe he earned the Summer, some signings and another Season.

That said I am not disagreeing with the Mourinho part although I don't see his tenure in anything like the same light as you do I feel if Roman and Mourinho had have had the friendship that Jose now leads us to believe they have they should have been able to Iron out their differences and Jose if he could have quietened himself down a bit and stopped with the antagonising that a lot loved him for and got us attacking more without so much long ball stuff and made some better moves in the transfer Market he would have been pretty near as good a manager as most on here already believe he was.

That said I never saw him as a long term choice when he came and always thought three or four years would be about all he would give to any team.

[TheWestwayWonder]

I think we are seeing something that is quite common. Scolari comes in and changes eveything and for a while it works well and so everyone is onside with it. But as soon as things don't go so well the doubts start to creep in. I think we are now at the stage where the players, and I mean the key players - Lampard, Terry, Drogba, maybe even Cech - are not convinced about the way Scolari wants us to play. As a consequence confidence has fallen and the crisp, incisive passing and movement that was so effective at the start of the season has disappeared. You then start to hear murmurings of discontent from the dressing room - we aren't training hard enough etc, etc.

Unfortunately, if the manager loses the faith of this players then there are really only two outcomes. Either the players get changed or the manager does and normally it is the manager.

I'm giving it about 3 or 4 matches and if we lose at Liverpool and Villa then Scolari will be history.

This is what I am most afraid of. That like Jose his position will become untenable.

IMO, we have a decent manager who started off well after inheriting a once exhalted throne at the head of a skilled, but depleted team, has now had several crap results on the bounce and has so thoroughly lost the players confidence and belief that its rapidly becoming apparrent that the only result might be the sack.

Unfortunately, all the excuses Lofty gave have partial basis in fact. Scolari is a good manager (not a great one) but because of finances, and previous expectations and managers, this job was a poisoned chalice from day one. It was either we replicated the success of Jose's first year, or it was all a bust. And right now, its looking like a bust.

I dont want Scolari to be sacked. Like Chippy, I think it solves nothing, and eventually I think we will start getting results and be in the title race until April at least.

I will say one thing, though. If Scolari is sacked this year or in the summer, half the squad should go with him out the door, without question. The usual subjects and all these other overpaid babies who are still throwing the toys out of the pram about Mourinho over a year after he left. They dont wanna play for the crest on the front of the shirt, they want to play for a charasmatic man in Milan, and their paychecks. Beyond that, they go home to their mansions, and could be arsed if we get three points or none, because they know they wont be the ones to suffer the consequences for their play.

We are still in second. If the players look at themselves and decide to work, the manager looks at what he is doing and decides to change, and the board looks at the squad and realizes it is lacking, there is hope yet. But alot needs to change and very very soon.

Edited January 12, 2009 by TheWestwayWonder

[BLUENUT]

I wasn't making excuses, just saying what I see happening.

You should know that I was never a believer that free flowing attacking football (not that we have seen much of it recently) was ever likely to win anything. It always has been easier to stop a team playing, particularly for the better teams.

Sorry mate - misunderstanding, I wasn't saying you were making the excuses, I meant the manager is. He has decent squad who narrowly missed the CL and League double last season, they haven't become too old or sh*te over 8 months. You've got to look at formation, motivation, desire, picking a formation to suit what you have available etc.

[bjd]

The biggest problem from now and the start of the season is the opposition know how to combat the way we play, and more worringly our manager doesn't know how to mix it up or change our formation.......just more excuses

I totally agree with this.

Its my biggest fear, we have been totally found out and Scolari has no plan b whatsoever. In fact we now resemble a group of xi players who dont even know what the plan a was in the first place. The more i think about yesterday the more outrageous it becomes, bar Essien, that was our strongest xi. And they were clueless, and , unforgivably, heartless.

I agree that we are only just over the half way stage of the season and things can change but im not confident of that at all, what evidence is there to suggest things are going to change? What have we seen from the team or Scolari these past 3 months to comfort us in this hope ?

In fact i can see things getting worse before they get better. Considering some of the fixtures we have left if you were to offer me 3rd or 4th spot now id devour your arm off in a manner akin to bernard manning taking on a big mac after a 30 day fast.